Underbelly, Mokbel & pills

[Modulus]

Can you back that up? MDMA labs are busted very rarely compared to importations.

How can you say a ton is imported a year? Thats some pretty confidential knowledge right there.



Even then, do you think they are obtaining precursor chemicals locally as well? Safrole oil, Dichloromethane? Or are you more of the idea that its made via Catalytic Hydrogenation of MDP2P and Methylamine?

There has to be some aspect of importation, in my opinion Australia simply doesn't have the networks to produce it wholly within this country. I could be wrong and i hope i am.

 

[phase_dancer]

There are tons of labs in Australia producing mdma. People from overseas migrate to Au just for the profit they make out of it. I also heard that they import big quantities of mdma powder or MD2P and make pills from them. Its alot easier.

While there's no doubt this was common a few years ago, I would suggest tightened boarder security and other local factors have seen this practice decline over recent years. It probably still occurs, but the methods by which the products get into the country would likely be via routes that avoid going through customs. Also, because cocaine and heroin are worth so much more that MDMA gram for gram, one would think any 'sure' avenue would be reserved for these drugs.

I also believe there are still likely to be many smaller, less commercialised labs, producing small amounts of MDMA, perhaps for the local scene or friends and family. But obtaining quantities of methylamine (necessary to turn large amounts of MDP2P into MDMA) has become much harder, with both tightened diversion legislation and the disappearance of an OTC precursor being factors.

Smuggling pills is a risky business. They are big, bulky, and hardly inconspicuous. A powder or liquid however, would be a much safer (if there is one) alternative.

Customs' use of new generation ion mobility scanners (IMS), and the increased number of containers which are searched, means that large quantities should be easily detectable. This includes various means of secreting MDMA or MD2P2P such as dissolving in things such as solvents and solid matrixes. If checked, extremely sensitive IMS instruments will pick up the chemicals in wine, diesel, and vac sealed solids etc. simply by sampling the air surrounding the merchandise.


What the smarter crooks are no doubt doing is to import seemingly unrelated chemicals from which MDP2P can be simply prepared. Not an easy thing to do, but such chems can be synthesized. It really comes down to economics - is it worth the extra work? Alternatively, a starting material could be diverted from the local perfume industry where large quantities are used, but the routes involved with this starting material also require watched chemicals such as nitroethane. Anyway, the perfume industry has been highly regulated (monitored) for some years now. So, unless the person filling out the end user declaration was bent, there's little chance of the stuff being diverted.

 

[resistance]

I also believe there are still likely to be many smaller, less commercialised labs, producing small amounts of MDMA, perhaps for the local scene or friends and family. But obtaining quantities of methylamine (necessary to turn large amounts of MDP2P into MDMA) has become much harder, with both tightened diversion legislation and the disappearance of an OTC precursor being factors.

you are VERY right about the small lab thing.
however, methylamine is now no longer needed to convert large volumes of mdp2p into mdma tho thanks to some clever chemists and a very old and very easy procedure.
the ONLY problem swim thinks is impacting local production is the unavailability of safrol rich oil

 

[Modulus]

Are you saying that the method of using Methylamine to convert MDP2P into MDMA has now been taken over by the Safrole method?

Even then, the precursors are heavily watched and rather extensive. Someone would have to be involved with a chemical company or have a damn good reason to be purchasing them to buy them without a high level of suspicion.

Mercuric chloride?
Methylene chloride?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but its not a backyard job. As p_d mentioned, im assuming chemicals "further down the line" are getting snuck in and synthesis' are starting there.

 

[resistance]

Can you back that up? MDMA labs are busted very rarely compared to importations.

1 How can you say a ton is imported a year? Thats some pretty confidential knowledge right there.



2 Even then, do you think they are obtaining precursor chemicals locally as well? Safrole oil, Dichloromethane? Or are you more of the idea that its made via Catalytic Hydrogenation of MDP2P and Methylamine?

3 There has to be some aspect of importation, in my opinion Australia simply doesn't have the networks to produce it wholly within this country. I could be wrong and i hope i am.

1 its public knowledge, the gov releases reports annually which contain amounts seized, quallity ect.

2 yes, most things are sourced here.
swim knows that the 2 rxns you posted are not really used that much anymore. another reductive animation is used that does not involve any methylamine.

3 you are wrong. it IS entirely made here but not in huge amounts. it is also imported usually by bad ass criminals. most of the stuff made here is distributed to friends and family like someone in hear already suspected. its the criminal's that press what ever they can get there hands on into pills for the street. the small labs are just maned by nerds interested in self exploration who sometimes make money on the side.

 

[resistance]

Are you saying that the method of using Methylamine to convert MDP2P into MDMA has now been taken over by the Safrole method?

Even then, the precursors are heavily watched and rather extensive. Someone would have to be involved with a chemical company or have a damn good reason to be purchasing them to buy them without a high level of suspicion.

Mercuric chloride?
Methylene chloride?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but its not a backyard job. As p_d mentioned, im assuming chemicals "further down the line" are getting snuck in and synthesis' are starting there.

its feesable for small labs to start from scratch (safrole) converting it to mdp2p then using a new method to convert mdp2p directly to mdma without metlyamine.

are we allowed to talk about this on here?

 

[Modulus]

Im no "MDMA" chemist, but wouldn't converting Safrole into MDP2P be a backward step?

Anyway, i think this could be a touch off topic. Good discussion though.

 

[resistance]

Im no "MDMA" chemist, but wouldn't converting Safrole into MDP2P be a backward step?

Anyway, i think this could be a touch off topic. Good discussion though.

um no? safrol is the oil steam distilled from plants. it is converted to isosafrol and or mdp2p then converted to mda mde mdea or mdma.
im just answering your questions, i dont want to be banned

 

[Modulus]

I'm just looking at synths as we discuss here, and sorry, im getting confused.

Distillation: of Natural Oil to obtain pure Safrole
Reaction: Formaldehyde + Ammonium Chloride -> MethylAmine.HCl (MeAm.HCl)
Reaction: Safrole -(Wacker Oxidation(PdCl2+Benzoquinone))-> MDP2P
Distillation: of Reaction contents to yield pure MDP2P
Reaction: MDP2P -(Al/Hg Amalgam (MeAm.HCl) -> MDMA oil
Crystallization: (MDMA oil + HCl in IPA/Xylene) (anhydrous conditions)

Got it.

Am i posting too much info? Surely anyone who can use google can find this so im assuming its ok.

 

[resistance]

I'm just looking at synths as we discuss here, and sorry, im getting confused.

Safrole > MDP2P
Distillation of MDP2P to yield pure product
MDP2P > MDMA oil

And then crystallization of MDMA oil.

Got it.

almost lol

Distillation of safrole rich oil (from plant) to yield pure safrole
safrole>mdp2p
mdp2p>mdma oil
wash wash wash
then crystallization

interesting stuff i reckon

interestingly enough, swim was thinking the other day that people who eat mdma in pill and powdered forms are taking a very big gamble. criminals are harsh people and not as safety orientated as others. after every syth, before the gassing (crystallization) there would be some un reacted chemicals that could be very toxic for people in small amounts over time.
we all put a lot of faith in these people and its scary :S

 

[phase_dancer]

Am i posting too much info? Surely anyone who can use google can find this so im assuming its ok.

Well, yes and no. The usual rule is that syntheses is not discussed in detail. There are other places where such discussion is allowed and even encouraged.

If you were to be talking about impurities, or some other HR related topic, I believe more detail descriptions of a synthesis might be allowed. But it's totally up to to the present mods, I'm only the Janitor these days.

BTW, while such exist, your chosen route is not exactly OTC. These days, the 'oil', palladium chloride and benzoquinone are all very watched, although arguably the latter two could be made and natural sources for the starting material do exist.

 

[Modulus]

I never said it was OTC! Far from it, thats the point im making! If precursors were obtained, it seems to be a fairly straight forward synthesis.

resistance, see my post, i edited it after your response.

 

[resistance]

Well, yes and no. The usual rule is that syntheses is not discussed in detail. There are other places where such discussion is allowed and even encouraged.

If you were to be talking about impurities, or some other HR related topic, I believe more detail descriptions of a synthesis might be allowed. But it's totally up to to the present mods, I'm only the Janitor these days.

BTW, while such exist, your chosen route is not exactly OTC. These days, the 'oil', palladium chloride and benzoquinone are all very watched, although arguably the latter two could be made and natural sources for the starting material do exist.

this is a much more reserved and informative post than your last one

 

[resistance]

I'm just looking at synths as we discuss here, and sorry, im getting confused.

Distillation: of Natural Oil to obtain pure Safrole
Reaction: Safrole -(Wacker Oxidation(PdCl2+Benzoquinone))-> MDP2P
Distillation: of Reaction contents to yield pure MDP2P
Reaction: MDP2P with AlHg & Nitromethane -> MDMA oil
Extraction: tolly, then wash wash wash wash!
Crystallization: NaCl/H2SO4 > hcl gas into the MDMA oil/tolly.

the nitromethane al/hg method is buy far the simplest known and highest yielding which is a cause of concern to me because i fear that criminals may skip the washing part and thus press pills that in theory could contain small amounts of un reacted mercury. if it were repeated buy the same person skipping the wash each time, mercury could build up in the systems of people and make them very very sick.
its great when done properly however.

 

[kingpin007]

The problem is the more it's washed the more you lose in weight in the long run...

dodgy labs produce that brown crystal mdma or grey putty depending on synth route, as where a expensive setup you can get pure white 99% mdma which is very rare these days & now only made in legal labs for Therapeutic use.

The stuff left over in some batches is VERY carcengenic & over time can build up in your system & thats only if you were ingesting from the same batch over long periods then you would possibly get some form of cancer.

As I said it's about the final wash ... the more it's washed the pure the final product is but drug makers/sellers are losing money this way so sometimes one quick wash is all you get and alot of poisons left over ...

Ever had a pill that is awesome but then your really sick the next day , more so than you would from just as a good pill , well theres your answer ...

This is also why pills these days are mixed with low amounts of mdma & mixed in with mda or speed just so they can make their money back ... people wont eat same pill again if it makes you really sick so the pushers lose $$$ , mdma is very hard to produce these days in Australia so importing the good stuff from europe then cutting it so final pressed pills are 50mg-80mg is what we are getting these days & even if the stuffs made here then expect it to be cut alot more.

 

[Pistachio]

Tmdma is very hard to produce these days in Australia so importing the good stuff from europe then cutting it so final pressed pills are 50mg-80mg is what we are getting these days & even if the stuffs made here then expect it to be cut alot more.

So I suppose it is better that the majority of the product here is imported from Dutch ports and cut with harmless filler rather than domestically produced, poorly synthed MDMA with plenty of potentially dangerous impurities. Though there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that there is large scale production occurring here.


And since you mentioned MDA being used as cut. Are you saying MDA is a cheaper substance to produce? Is it easier to produce? If so, why don't we see more MDA pills. Heck I would enjoy that, I tend to prefer MDA anyway.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Am i posting too much info? Surely anyone who can use google can find this so im assuming its ok.

Anyone who can use google can find how to make heroin, meth or find sources for RCs online but we don't allow discussion of those here.

 

[hoptis]

I've unapproved a fair few posts, just to be safe as we do have a rule against synthesis discussion here.

 

[phase_dancer]

Well, there goes the three page post I prepared on a quantitative evaluation of the dangers associated with ingesting mercury from this synthesis

 

[tadfish]

This would be a much more interesting read if it wasn't so censored. Can't the past and a book be discussed. say in a semi-fictional way. There was a TV show on this and books can't we discuss and little more in depth. As i am sure it is very interesting to many.