UK - Peter Hitchens: 'I don't believe in addiction. People take drugs because they...

there is a difference between addiction and dependency. I've been dependent on amps but I was addicted to heroin/opioids. look in the DSM-IV-TR
 
That's not really a fair assessment. Everybody's pain and personal situation is different, just because those meds allow you to function at the level you feel is sufficient, doesn't mean they would for everybody.

I agree that there should be more options for dealing with chronic pain, but thats what they should be, options. Someone who makes the choice to use opiates to manage their pain shouldn't be judged.
 
Coolio said:
You're totally confused, man. You're acting as if relief from pain is a fundamental right or necessity. I have severe chronic pain, which opioids would treat, but I actively choose not to ever use them for the pain as I'm aware of how it's an unsustainable method of pain relief!

Some people choose to get addicted to opioids to deal with their chronic pain, others choose to just 'deal with it' without the physical dependence issues of opioids whether they're functional or not with that level of pain.

Flexeril and Soma (Soma is not addictive if you only take it once or twice per week) and bromelain barely do anything for my pain, but they're all I'm willing to take as they're the only readily available healthy sustainable long-term methods for treating back pain pharmacologically.
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Try being in real pain, that fucking cannibinoids won't fix. Then come here and talk down to people. I'm sure EVERYONE on opiods for pain decided "yeah I wanna take a physically addictive drug" or maybe they're just in that much fucking pain opioids are the only thing able to touch that pain?

seriously mate, get off your god damn high horse.
 
"I don't believe in addiction" is so telling. We've hit a weird sort of impasse where opinions are constantly confused with facts. Addiction exists, that is a fact. Addiction is not God - it is not some unprovable thing that you can speculate on. It is a scientifically real thing and to disbelieve it is ignorance, not opinion.
 
Newbierock said:
Try being in real pain, that fucking cannibinoids won't fix. Then come here and talk down to people. I'm sure EVERYONE on opiods for pain decided "yeah I wanna take a physically addictive drug" or maybe they're just in that much fucking pain opioids are the only thing able to touch that pain?

seriously mate, get off your god damn high horse.
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I am in real pain, that cannabinoids don't fix. I choose to live with debilitating pain rather than face addiction! Simple.
 
Serotonin101 said:
there is a difference between addiction and dependency. I've been dependent on amps but I was addicted to heroin/opioids. look in the DSM-IV-TR
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I believe you're mistaken about that. I don't have my DSM handy, but I seem to remember it never mentions the word "addiction", and pretty much uses "dependence" in its place.

edit: Black Crowes reference completely unintentional
 
Coolio said:
Some people choose to get addicted to opioids to deal with their chronic pain, others choose to just 'deal with it' without the physical dependence issues of opioids whether they're functional or not with that level of pain.

Flexeril and Soma (Soma is not addictive if you only take it once or twice per week) and bromelain barely do anything for my pain, but they're all I'm willing to take as they're the only readily available healthy sustainable long-term methods for treating back pain pharmacologically.
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that soma info is useful about once or twice a week, good to know.

however ones level of pain can determine their quality of life and you have no idea what are saying to someone by saying "deal with it." that's a load of shit. everyone deals in the way they can, this may to be live the best life they can.

i wonder what this dickhead hitchens meant by hard work? work hard, everybody! every knows working hard equals happiness and solutions to every problem you might imagine. no evidence to the contrary to be found anywhere.
 
Jean-Paul said:
that soma info is useful about once or twice a week, good to know.

however ones level of pain can determine their quality of life and you have no idea what are saying to someone by saying "deal with it." that's a load of shit. everyone deals in the way they can, this may to be live the best life they can.
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It's dishonest to pretend you didn't have a choice about it.
Addiction to opioids for pain relief is a choice one makes on a daily basis as they decide the pain relief is more important than regular bowel movements, social stigma, and money. There are alternatives, even if they don't lead to "the best life." All choices in this situation have their downsides though.
 
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Coolio said:
You're totally confused, man. You're acting as if relief from pain is a fundamental right or necessity. I have severe chronic pain, which opioids would treat, but I actively choose not to ever use them for the pain as I'm aware of how it's an unsustainable method of pain relief!

Some people choose to get addicted to opioids to deal with their chronic pain, others choose to just 'deal with it' without the physical dependence issues of opioids whether they're functional or not with that level of pain.

Flexeril and Soma (Soma is not addictive if you only take it once or twice per week) and bromelain barely do anything for my pain, but they're all I'm willing to take as they're the only readily available healthy sustainable long-term methods for treating back pain pharmacologically
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The fail is strong with your opinion

Coolio said:
I am in real pain, that cannabinoids don't fix. I choose to live with debilitating pain rather than face addiction! Simple
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Who cares what you choose to do?!

Everyone's pain is different, you dont know how much pain others are in, it could be a fraction of the pain you're in
 
Or his pain could be fraction of someone else's. Nobody can tell another person how they feel. Unless you can magically get in their head somehow. Some people do actually need narcotic pain medication to function, and there is honestly nothing "wrong" or "dishonest" about it. There is a choice but sometimes the options are 1. Bedridden with pain living a useless life or 2. Take pain medicine, become dependent, but still function and enjoy life as much as possible. And even then its never that simple.
 
Hiltoniano said:
Or his pain could be fraction of someone else's. Nobody can tell another person how they feel. Unless you can magically get in their head somehow. Some people do actually need narcotic pain medication to function, and there is honestly nothing "wrong" or "dishonest" about it. There is a choice but sometimes the options are 1. Bedridden with pain living a useless life or 2. Take pain medicine, become dependent, but still function and enjoy life as much as possible. And even then its never that simple
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Yes, well said
 
Fresco said:
Everyone's pain is different, you dont know how much pain others are in, it could be a fraction of the pain you're in
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There are billions of citizens of Earth who have NO access to opioids; their hospitals and doctors do not use them. It doesn't matter how much pain people are in, it's not considered an option in most of the world. America uses over 90% of the opioids in the world. It's unrealistic to assume you should have pain treated by daily opioid use.

Fresco said:
For me its different though, I'm dependent on pain pills because of chronic lower back problems
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All I'm trying to say is that this sentence here is delusional bullshit. That's NOT why you're dependent on pain pills. You're dependent on pain pills because you choose to take them daily. That last sentence of mine is factual, whereas yours is an example of you lying to yourself. You act as if going through withdrawal is not an option, but I assure you, it certainly is.
 
Coolio said:
There are billions of citizens of Earth who have NO access to opioids; their hospitals and doctors do not use them. It doesn't matter how much pain people are in, it's not considered an option in most of the world. America uses over 90% of the opioids in the world. It's unrealistic to assume you should have pain treated by daily opioid use.



All I'm trying to say is that this sentence here is delusional bullshit. That's NOT why you're dependent on pain pills. You're dependent on pain pills because you choose to take them daily. That last sentence of mine is factual, whereas yours is an example of you lying to yourself. You act as if going through withdrawal is not an option, but I assure you, it certainly is
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How about you mind your own business how you handle your pain management, and we will mind our business how we handle ours??!
 
There are billions of citizens of Earth who have NO access to opioids; their hospitals and doctors do not use them. It doesn't matter how much pain people are in, it's not considered an option in most of the world. America uses over 90% of the opioids in the world. It's unrealistic to assume you should have pain treated by daily opioid use.
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There are billions of citizens of earth who lacks clean food, or safe housing, or, as you pointed out, regular access to medication. That doesn't make this a desired state of living.

It's obvious you gain a sense of moral superiority over opiate users because you don't use them, which is kind of a shame. You should examine your own motivations sometime and look at the judgmental manner in which you're addressing other people.

Yes, opiates have downsides, but the only person who can weigh these downsides against the benefits of using them is the individual in question, and nobody has the right to judge them for that decision because nobody can fully understand another person's body and mind. It's extremely arrogant to claim that because you can function without them, all people should have to.
 
Fresco said:
How about you mind your own business how you handle your pain management, and we will mind our business how we handle ours??!
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Don't complain about addiction then, it was your choice from the beginning to enter into a state of addiction to handle your pain management.
 
Crankinit said:
There are billions of citizens of earth who lacks clean food, or safe housing, or, as you pointed out, regular access to medication. That doesn't make this a desired state of living.

It's obvious you gain a sense of moral superiority over opiate users because you don't use them, which is kind of a shame. You should examine your own motivations sometime and look at the judgmental manner in which you're addressing other people.

Yes, opiates have downsides, but the only person who can weigh these downsides against the benefits of using them is the individual in question, and nobody has the right to judge them for that decision because nobody can fully understand another person's body and mind. It's extremely arrogant to claim that because you can function without them, all people should have to.
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You weren't reading anything I'm saying apparently.

1. I do use opioids
2. I don't find using them to make one morally inferior to someone who doesn't use them
3. I can't and don't function, I ponder suicide as a preferable option rather than use opioids for pain management
 
hmmmm i can obviously see he disregards scientific evidence, and by doing that he disregards people who have real diseases, which is despicable. Our views seem quite perpendicular. However i agree i can't help but like the guy. He has an extremely interesting viewpoints, especially that drugs sever the link between hard work and reward. Although I know in fact for some people its a reward for hard work, so it increases that link. I think its frankly pointless for these two sides to argue unless its based on scientific fact, because their opinions will always stonewall against each other.
 
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