UK - Met chief: Stop keeping prisoners on drugs

[edgarshade]

London Evening standard

Martin Bentham, Home Affairs Editor
21 Apr 2011

With reader comments

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23943441-met-chief-stop-keeping-prisoners-on-drugs.do

Britain's drugs strategy is fuelling crime in London by failing to do enough to get addicts to kick their habit, a senior Met officer warned today.

Deputy Commissioner Tim Godwin said too many prolific offenders were being "maintained" on class A substances after being convicted, and most returned to crime as a result.

An official report into the £11million project concluded that it had "no impact" on reoffending, with nearly half of participants committing new crimes within a year. Mr Godwin said the main reason for the lack of success was continued drug abuse by many of the offenders, one third of whom had a history of using class A substances.

Mr Godwin said discussions were under way with the Ministry of Justice to see whether it and other parts of government, such as the Department of Health, could find a better way of treating addicts. "The alternative is that we lock them up because we do have to protect the public from them. But that is just a revolving door."

 

[Herbal~Jah]

This guy obviously knows nothing about OPIATE addiction, because I am 100% positive that NO country in the entire would "maintains" any other "Class A/Schedule I" narcotic.

Anyways, UK has got the right strategy, here in America we do nothing for people on opiates going into jail. Whether they are legally prescribed, a current M'done/suboxone patient, or just an abuser that gets caught, none of them get shit when they go to jail, the USA just makes you suffer.. What an evil world we live in.

 

[smackcraft]

yeah you get at least a 7 day detox in the jails here if your on opiates or if its prescribed for pain you will get your daily dose until release

another time they may keep you on your regular dose is if its a short sentence

I read this last night in the methadone hand book 10th edition if you need source

 

[hobhead]

cold turkey in a cell would suck but it would be effective. it would be a practical way to get the monkey off the back of a junkie that was stoping, starting and lying about his addiction.

 

[Mora Fiend]

cold turkey in a cell would suck but it would be effective. it would be a practical way to get the monkey off the back of a junkie that was stoping, starting and lying about his addiction.

When I went to prison I had a bundle every 24 hour habit, detoxing in a cell was the worst goddamn thing I ever had to do. When I told the corrections officers that I was sick and needed to go to the infirmary they would laugh at me and tell me that I shouldn't of done heroin.

I remember a few of the officers used to smuggle heroin in for a huge cash payout one of the dopesick prisoners strangled another to get the little bit of dope that he had, and that wasn't the only incident of violence related to heroin commited by dopesick prisoners.

Sure your idea of letting junkies detox in a cell with no help is practical, but it's also under the impression that there is no access to drugs in prison, which is totally false. The officers smuggled in everything and made a LOT of money doing it. For instance, a 3oz pouch of tobacco which cost $3 on the streets was sold for $150 on the inside.

Now if they treated the dopesick inmates with say, suboxone and explained to them that if they could even get their hands on any heroin it would be ineffective then that would save a lot of hassle and needless suffering.

 

[Khadijah]

cold turkey in a cell would suck but it would be effective. it would be a practical way to get the monkey off the back of a junkie that was stoping, starting and lying about his addiction.

no it aint....it wont stop tons of feens from startin it all over again the second they get out. shits just needless 'told you so' suffering with no gains in the end.

 

[qwe]

cold turkey in a cell would suck but it would be effective. it would be a practical way to get the monkey off the back of a junkie that was stoping, starting and lying about his addiction.

it would worsen his addiction. the faster (the harsher/more cold-turkeyish) the quit, the worse PAWS is, and PAWS is often the kicker. it's also damaging physiologically, and not safe at all, to cold turkey an opiate or benzo.

any psychological conditions that may have led to the addiction will be amplified a million times during withdrawal, causing an intense craving of the drug, and all of this happens in the wonderful psychological environment of prison. yeah, it'll help people kick the habit 8)

all it'll do is make them more desperate for dope. there is sometimes a use for the stick as opposed to the carrot, but this is not one of those times.

the classic "rat park studies" showed that the rats that keep self-administering reinforcing drugs are the rats that have less social interaction, less intellectual engagement with their surroundings (e.g. think video games or puzzles if you want to think about this in terms of humans), less palatable food, less food, etc.

basically, if you put a rat in a cage with nothing to do except eat a little pellet of food at scheduled intervals (sort of like putting a human into prison)... yeah, that rat is going to push that lever and get his dope until he drops, of course

rear a rat in a great environment, and often all of the reinforcing/addictive qualities are totally absent!

When I told the corrections officers that I was sick and needed to go to the infirmary they would laugh at me and tell me that I shouldn't of done heroin.

it's criminal.. it's cruel and unusual punishment, no matter "whose fault"... but society does want to lash out at the underclass of drug users...

as someone who has been through both opiate and benzo WD, i think that it's absolutely criminal and "wrong" to allow anybody to involuntarily enter withdrawal. and any addict will tell you that you'll never end an addiction involuntarily.

 

[Mora Fiend]

as someone who has been through both opiate and benzo WD, i think that it's absolutely criminal and "wrong" to allow anybody to involuntarily enter withdrawal. and any addict will tell you that you'll never end an addiction involuntarily.

So true Qwe, right after I got off parole I started using again.

 

[Smyth]

This guy speaking to the press is clearly concerned about the crime that addictions can cause.

If somebody wants to quit their drug habit than that is a good thing. For many taking opiates is a life-style choice. Not all users are looking to 'abuse' their drugs. Nevertheless, it is not wise to allow tolerance to increase indefinately as is practically guaranteed to happen if there is easy availability. Sooner or later they are going to have to quit or at least lower their consumption rate.

I dont think its right that the only way for a user to buy drugs is on a blackmarket that commands ludicrously high prices since the addict then will feel they have to steal and rob people to fund their habit. I like the fact that it is possible to obtain opiates if one sees their pain specialist. I think this is a good thing because it is making a statement that it is possible for an individual to take opiates (in a controlled environment) and not be commiting a crime.

If you ask me tobacco should not be allowed in prisons. Smoking is a habit that is proven to kill people. Being dependent on opiates does not cause death unless the user takes an overdose.

I dont necessarily think people should be allowed opiates in prison because prison is a punishment and opiates function as antidepressants. Still, this has to be weighed against the fact that prison is one of the most depressing experiences anyone is likely to suffer. Being too harsh on the offender might lead them to suicide.

 

[Mora Fiend]

it is not wise to allow tolerance to increase indefinately as is practically guaranteed to happen if there is easy availability

That's been proven to be false with heroin, I believe it caps at about 1 gram of pure pharmacutical grade diacetylmorphine per day.

I like the fact that it is possible to obtain opiates if one sees their pain specialist.

Heroin is a totally different monster in comparison to the stuff you can get from your pain specialist, at least here in the US, I know in the UK you have diamorph

I dont necessarily think people should be allowed opiates in prison because prison is a punishment and opiates function as antidepressants.

Negative.

 

[villian]

Heroin is a totally different monster in comparison to the stuff you can get from your pain specialist, at least here in the US, I know in the UK you have diamorph

How so? I've abused heroin and I've abused oxycodone/oxymorphone/fentanyl and they are all interchangable for the most part. There are subtle differences between them sure but heroin is in the exact same ballpark as oxymorphone and fentanyl.

 

[qwe]

Heroin is a totally different monster in comparison to the stuff you can get from your pain specialist, at least here in the US, I know in the UK you have diamorph

idk, that hydromorphone and oxycodone..

I dont necessarily think people should be allowed opiates in prison because prison is a punishment and opiates function as antidepressants.

so the purpose of prison is to A) inflict pain, and B) exacerbate any addictions and any psychological problems that would worsen those addictions.

great idea.

If you ask me tobacco should not be allowed in prisons. Smoking is a habit that is proven to kill people. Being dependent on opiates does not cause death unless the user takes an overdose.

now this is just getting retarded. take some time to think about the subjective consequences of the policy you describe.

being the sadistic dogs that they are, if prisons could, they would ban cigarettes (and anything)... they allow certain things to stay around for a reason, the biggest reason probably being financial (how much would we have to spend to stop it) and social (imagine trying to retain control over a prison of people in withdrawal, all feeling desperate, in pain, and not really caring if they die).

but again, just because they're prisoners (any bluelighter could wind up in prison... we can't forget that) that doesn't mean they should be denied all avenues of pleasure, denied all means of feeling OK.

in fact, the science shows that the better we treat them, the less recidivism there will be. the purpose should be rehabilitation so that we feel safe letting the person back onto the streets into freedom. if there is ever any other purpose, it's subverting that rehabilitation

btw, atm, you are getting your way... many prisons are fucking hell holes. it's not acting as a deterrent, and they are still ballooning because of these "anti-pleasure memes" you're supporting.

 

[Mora Fiend]

To quote myself:

Heroin is a totally different monster in comparison to the stuff you can get from your pain specialist, at least here in the US, I know in the UK you have diamorph

I have always felt that heroin was a totally different high in comparison to oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydromorphone and the like but maybe that's just me. Does anyone else agree that heroin is a different high in comparison to the pharmacutical counterparts? Also I don't mean to compare heroin to diamorph because I have never tried it so I can't compare, but I would like to know other people's take on my quote.

 

[qwe]

i would say that either A) the difference is due to cuts in the heroin, or B) the different method of using, method of obtaining, and general atmosphere makes it feel so different.

if you were getting diacetylmorphine tablets from a pharmacy, it'd be virtually like getting hydromorphone from the pharmacy.

 

[Mora Fiend]

^ I dunno Qwe I've shot the 8mg dillys before and still it didn't feel like heroin. I mean it was very similar obviously but there is just something about heroin that makes it 'special'. Maybe it's the cuts like ya said, or maybe im just nuts.

 

[ATLL765]

Dilaudid is probably the closest thing I've used to heroin. At least as far as the rush is concerned. Heroin imo is king because it combines that great rush and body high while staying with you long enough to keep any pain away for a decent amount of time unlike hydromorphone, which I feel the need to redose with every 3-4 hours compared to 6-10 hours with heroin. That's just my experience and why I feel like heroin is on it's own level as far as opiates are concerned.

 

[fryingsquirrel]

Dilaudid is probably the closest thing I've used to heroin. At least as far as the rush is concerned. Heroin imo is king because it combines that great rush and body high while staying with you long enough to keep any pain away for a decent amount of time unlike hydromorphone, which I feel the need to redose with every 3-4 hours compared to 6-10 hours with heroin. That's just my experience and why I feel like heroin is on it's own level as far as opiates are concerned.

I've never done heroin (not against it, it just isn't found where I live), but someone who has told me morphine and dilaudid in the same syringe is almost exactly the same rush. That I have done, and it was the best opiate high I've ever had.