HerrSchnaufer
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 13, 2009
- Messages
- 171
I'd put ketamine, psychedelics and deleriants above opiates myself.
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DPMC Moderators: tryptakid
UK: Drug-driving test equipment to be trialled
- Thread starter 7zark7
- Start date
I'd put ketamine, psychedelics and deleriants above opiates myself.
Some of the strict-ass zero tolerance "nobody should be driving after takin ANY drug at all" type of opinions on here is really failing to consider alot of important points...
For example. There is a limit for how much alcohol you can drink before you considered intoxicated. So would there be a limit for drugs? No, there aint, its just , you either "are" or you "aint." you got the drug in your system or you dont. And that aint fair. just becuz you took a certain drug dont mean you IMPAIRED.
You might have the drug in your SYSTEM...but just becuz you ON a drug dont mean that you INTOXICATED or IMPAIRED by the drug.
One good example would be a heroin addict.
when i was hooked on dope obviously i had to shoot heroin to function. So to be able to drive at all i had to shoot some dope.
If i DIDNT have a shot in the morning before i went out to do w/ever, i was actually a dangerous driver. My eyes waterin, sneezing and yawnin uncontrollably, my eyes so dilated that everything is WAAAY too bright even with dark-ass sunglasses on, so I cant really see much becuz im squinting so hard cuz the sun is so bright in my eyes and glaring off every mirror and windshield,etc....My whole body shaking with hot n cold sweats, so my motor skills and coordination was COMPLETELY fucked....Totally unable to focus on a damn thing, distracted as hell, nauseous so bad that i would have to suddenly pull over at 2 seconds notice or id throw up on the dashboard, etc. Jus strung the fuck out, a hot mess.
drivin in that state, was WAAAAAY more dangerous than drivin after my standard "get well" shot. Sure if i booted like 8 bags at once to get a nice nod goin on then i would be fucked up and shouldnt be drivin. I drove a good number of times after doin a lil too much dope, and 2 of them I accidently kinda gave a "love tap" to the bumper of the car in front of me when i was sittin in traffic at a light....Didnt really "hit" them but just had been stopped at the light and i guess i nodded out for 2 seconds and my foot kinda slipped the brake a little and i rolled into them at like 0.8 miles per hour and slightly just tapped them....It didnt cause no damage neither time but those times taught me the lesson that i could not do more than my regular "just enough to not be sick" dose or i would be intoxicated and drivin was a bad idea.
So there is a difference between bein on a drug and bein impaired or havin your skills reduced, and just the fact of bein on the drug but it aint havin no effects on you. like i said...durin all the time when i was a dopehead, I COULDNT drive safe if i wasnt on dope. i had to have it to be able to be a normal, safe driver otherwise i was such a mess that I was about as safe of a driver as somebody who had a bad case of the flu and had been up for 3 days and not ate nothin.
Now i am on Methadone. i take it everyday and it dont affect my driving at all. But im on a dose that a person who never took it before, would be straight WASTED on, they might even OD if they had never took a opiate before and had a low body weight. so the dose im on could be considered high by people tryna figure out the standards of how much of it you take before you considered intoxicated...but to any other person who is on methadone for pain management or for MMT the dose is relatively low.
if you on a precribed medication and you used to it and know how you react to it then you should be able to drive without bein afraid you gonna get hit with a DWI. I need to take this shit to get by, and I also need to drive to be able to get places. i cant just not drive. And i shouldnt have to not drive--my drivin aint affected, i drive totally normal and nobody would know i was on anything unless i told them or they did a drug test on me. So if methadone come up in my system then am i a "drug driver"?
If you gonna be so hard-ass and worried about the effects of EVERY drug...why not Antidepressants? Some of them has all kind of effects on your coordination and motor skills.....they might not make you "intoxicated' in the usual idea of euphoria, feelin 'high', etc, but they can impair your driving skills...so if you gonna 'crack down' on ANYbody on ANY drug, then it also gotta apply to people on certain antidepressants or ESPECIALLY antipsychotics which can be EXTREMELY sedating.....
And after all that, since we bein "safety first" here, you cant forget TIRED drivers....people who aint slept in a while, who got sleep deprivation or who been up a few nights in a row, who is tired as hell and halfway fallin asleep at the wheel...How bout them? We gonna hit them with a driving while impaired charge too right? becuz mad studies show, over and over again, that people with sleep deprivation who drive while extremely tired, are actually more at risk of havin accidents and are more dangerous, than people who are drivin at the 0.8 alcohol intoxication limit.
It aint realistic to treat driving while on any kind of drug in any amount that way. there aint no tests you can use to determine if a person is actually "HIGH" or not....you cant use a piss test to determine if a person is high RIGHT NOW....And even with a physical exam, you can tell the signs that the drug is in the BODY...but not the level of intoxication (except in cases where the person is noddin out in front of you--but that aint no technical measure and couldnt be used as a way to determine a damn thing legally.) even doin a blood test and testing the levels of concentration of the drug in the bloodstream, which can tell you how MUCH of the drug is in the system at that particular time, still cant tell you if the person is HIGH.....
becuz even with a test like that, which aint no cop gonna be able to do on the side of the road during a traffic stop anyways, I might get pulled over and have a heroin blood concentration of XXX amount per lb. of body weight in my blood, and another person might have that same amount but they might be a new user and i am a 7 year addict who is used to that amount and needs that amount just to survive. (And that was just hypothetical--Im clean now and been for almost a year but im just usin that as a example). The test could show that i had a concentration of heroin in my blood considered to be a pretty high amount...but becuz i was a longtime IV user with many years of addiction and a extremely high tolerance, for me that was just a little snack, and I am just walkin around and talkin as normal as can be, nobody even knowin if i am high or not....Where the other guy might be noddin out face down flat on the table and burnin himself with cigarettes, with both of our test readin the same amount of the drug in our system.
Its way too arbitrary to tell....its somethin that will vary so much from person to person depending on tolerance, how long they used for, how long ago they used, (for example I wouldnt even really get high when i did my 'get well' shot of dope do i would be just ok to drive home and actually get high once i was safe at home...But by the time its 2 hours after that get-well shot, i would not even be under the influence at ALL no more... I wouldnt be high even right after I did the shot but I might feel relief, a quick sense of euphoria, and generally feel good, but not enough to affect my coordination, etc. But by the time a hour went by, i would be SO far from high that i would 100% absolutely be at baseline "normal", not a trace of high, etc. But a drug test would just find that i was "under the influence" becuz i had took heroin 2 hours earlier and consider me to be intoxicated when in reality, any heroind addict can tell you, that when you only do enough just to get off empty and get normal, by the time even a half hour goes by you are already back at the baseline and nowhere near even a little bit of high, nevermind intoxicated, and DEFIANTELY nevermind impaired.
the idea that you can measure this shit is so flawed and im honestly suprised to see so many Bl'ers supportin this type of thing, it really aint accurate and can only go to screw you over...
For example. There is a limit for how much alcohol you can drink before you considered intoxicated. So would there be a limit for drugs? No, there aint, its just , you either "are" or you "aint." you got the drug in your system or you dont. And that aint fair. just becuz you took a certain drug dont mean you IMPAIRED.
You might have the drug in your SYSTEM...but just becuz you ON a drug dont mean that you INTOXICATED or IMPAIRED by the drug.
One good example would be a heroin addict.
when i was hooked on dope obviously i had to shoot heroin to function. So to be able to drive at all i had to shoot some dope.
If i DIDNT have a shot in the morning before i went out to do w/ever, i was actually a dangerous driver. My eyes waterin, sneezing and yawnin uncontrollably, my eyes so dilated that everything is WAAAY too bright even with dark-ass sunglasses on, so I cant really see much becuz im squinting so hard cuz the sun is so bright in my eyes and glaring off every mirror and windshield,etc....My whole body shaking with hot n cold sweats, so my motor skills and coordination was COMPLETELY fucked....Totally unable to focus on a damn thing, distracted as hell, nauseous so bad that i would have to suddenly pull over at 2 seconds notice or id throw up on the dashboard, etc. Jus strung the fuck out, a hot mess.
drivin in that state, was WAAAAAY more dangerous than drivin after my standard "get well" shot. Sure if i booted like 8 bags at once to get a nice nod goin on then i would be fucked up and shouldnt be drivin. I drove a good number of times after doin a lil too much dope, and 2 of them I accidently kinda gave a "love tap" to the bumper of the car in front of me when i was sittin in traffic at a light....Didnt really "hit" them but just had been stopped at the light and i guess i nodded out for 2 seconds and my foot kinda slipped the brake a little and i rolled into them at like 0.8 miles per hour and slightly just tapped them....It didnt cause no damage neither time but those times taught me the lesson that i could not do more than my regular "just enough to not be sick" dose or i would be intoxicated and drivin was a bad idea.
So there is a difference between bein on a drug and bein impaired or havin your skills reduced, and just the fact of bein on the drug but it aint havin no effects on you. like i said...durin all the time when i was a dopehead, I COULDNT drive safe if i wasnt on dope. i had to have it to be able to be a normal, safe driver otherwise i was such a mess that I was about as safe of a driver as somebody who had a bad case of the flu and had been up for 3 days and not ate nothin.
Now i am on Methadone. i take it everyday and it dont affect my driving at all. But im on a dose that a person who never took it before, would be straight WASTED on, they might even OD if they had never took a opiate before and had a low body weight. so the dose im on could be considered high by people tryna figure out the standards of how much of it you take before you considered intoxicated...but to any other person who is on methadone for pain management or for MMT the dose is relatively low.
if you on a precribed medication and you used to it and know how you react to it then you should be able to drive without bein afraid you gonna get hit with a DWI. I need to take this shit to get by, and I also need to drive to be able to get places. i cant just not drive. And i shouldnt have to not drive--my drivin aint affected, i drive totally normal and nobody would know i was on anything unless i told them or they did a drug test on me. So if methadone come up in my system then am i a "drug driver"?
If you gonna be so hard-ass and worried about the effects of EVERY drug...why not Antidepressants? Some of them has all kind of effects on your coordination and motor skills.....they might not make you "intoxicated' in the usual idea of euphoria, feelin 'high', etc, but they can impair your driving skills...so if you gonna 'crack down' on ANYbody on ANY drug, then it also gotta apply to people on certain antidepressants or ESPECIALLY antipsychotics which can be EXTREMELY sedating.....
And after all that, since we bein "safety first" here, you cant forget TIRED drivers....people who aint slept in a while, who got sleep deprivation or who been up a few nights in a row, who is tired as hell and halfway fallin asleep at the wheel...How bout them? We gonna hit them with a driving while impaired charge too right? becuz mad studies show, over and over again, that people with sleep deprivation who drive while extremely tired, are actually more at risk of havin accidents and are more dangerous, than people who are drivin at the 0.8 alcohol intoxication limit.
It aint realistic to treat driving while on any kind of drug in any amount that way. there aint no tests you can use to determine if a person is actually "HIGH" or not....you cant use a piss test to determine if a person is high RIGHT NOW....And even with a physical exam, you can tell the signs that the drug is in the BODY...but not the level of intoxication (except in cases where the person is noddin out in front of you--but that aint no technical measure and couldnt be used as a way to determine a damn thing legally.) even doin a blood test and testing the levels of concentration of the drug in the bloodstream, which can tell you how MUCH of the drug is in the system at that particular time, still cant tell you if the person is HIGH.....
becuz even with a test like that, which aint no cop gonna be able to do on the side of the road during a traffic stop anyways, I might get pulled over and have a heroin blood concentration of XXX amount per lb. of body weight in my blood, and another person might have that same amount but they might be a new user and i am a 7 year addict who is used to that amount and needs that amount just to survive. (And that was just hypothetical--Im clean now and been for almost a year but im just usin that as a example). The test could show that i had a concentration of heroin in my blood considered to be a pretty high amount...but becuz i was a longtime IV user with many years of addiction and a extremely high tolerance, for me that was just a little snack, and I am just walkin around and talkin as normal as can be, nobody even knowin if i am high or not....Where the other guy might be noddin out face down flat on the table and burnin himself with cigarettes, with both of our test readin the same amount of the drug in our system.
Its way too arbitrary to tell....its somethin that will vary so much from person to person depending on tolerance, how long they used for, how long ago they used, (for example I wouldnt even really get high when i did my 'get well' shot of dope do i would be just ok to drive home and actually get high once i was safe at home...But by the time its 2 hours after that get-well shot, i would not even be under the influence at ALL no more... I wouldnt be high even right after I did the shot but I might feel relief, a quick sense of euphoria, and generally feel good, but not enough to affect my coordination, etc. But by the time a hour went by, i would be SO far from high that i would 100% absolutely be at baseline "normal", not a trace of high, etc. But a drug test would just find that i was "under the influence" becuz i had took heroin 2 hours earlier and consider me to be intoxicated when in reality, any heroind addict can tell you, that when you only do enough just to get off empty and get normal, by the time even a half hour goes by you are already back at the baseline and nowhere near even a little bit of high, nevermind intoxicated, and DEFIANTELY nevermind impaired.
the idea that you can measure this shit is so flawed and im honestly suprised to see so many Bl'ers supportin this type of thing, it really aint accurate and can only go to screw you over...