UK - Cannabis health dangers 'underestimated'

edgarshade

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
1,954
Location
UK
Telegraph

By Stephen Adams, Medical Correspondent
6:30AM BST 06 Jun 2012

With reader comments

A third of people think cannabis is harmless, despite it being 20 times more carcinogenic to smoke than tobacco, according to a report published today (Wednesday).

The British Lung Foundation, which produced the report, said there was “an alarming disconnect” between public perception of the drug as safe, and “the serious, even fatal impact it can have”.

Almost nine in 10 people think tobacco cigarettes are more damaging to health than cannabis ones, found the BLF.
The charity reviewed existing scientific evidence on the health impacts of smoking cannabis, and reported there was strong evidence it contributed to diseases including lung cancer, tuberculosis and acute bronchitis.

More...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9311783/drugs-cannabis-lung-cancer-BLF.html

Also in Huff Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/06/05/millions-risk-smoking-cannabis-cancer_n_1570281.html
Metro
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/901160-one-cannabis-joint-a-day-is-as-bad-as-20-cigarettes
 
"9 in every 10 people are so stupid as to questions our unquestionable authority when we make bold, unsubstantiated and disproved claims."
 
I'm sure I seen a list of all the chemicals that come from burned cannabis and tobacco, and there was less of nearly every one of them from cannabis?
 
I think they make a good point about people thinking cannabis is literally harmless, both physically and mentally, when it can have some negative effects. But they then exaggerate the negative effects severely.

As far as I remember, there have been some longitudinal studies showing that cannabis on its own doesn't increase the chances of getting lung cancer in reality. Of course smoking anything is bad for your lungs but there's no need for them to make shit up that's already got a fair bit of evidence against it by saying cannabis increases your chances of getting lung cancer by more than tobacco.

And also the link between cannabis and schizophrenia is very debatable, I don't think we fully understand it yet but from the studies I've read I don't think it's as simple as "cannabis makes you more likely to develop schizophrenia".
 
Who told these dipshits cannabis is more carcinogenic than a cigarrete by 20x? I can believe the old 5x MAYBE, but that's offset more than completely by the cancer fighting cannabinoids. Also, like I said every time in the past, you don't have to smoke it.
 
how are every one of us automatically experts on the carcinogenic properties of cannabis?

And we're claiming that the evidence against cannabis has been disproven?

And illustrating the mechanics of cannabis as something where carcinogens are in a wrestling match against anti-carcinogens?

I think we are all cannabis homers here. I also love it and want it to win every argument. But it is smoke, that we are regularly filling our lungs with. It certainly doesn't make us healthier.

I think it's never a good idea to kick objectivity to the curb.
 
Yeah combusting anything and inhaling the fumes is bad for your lungs. If I'm still a stoner when I'm an old man I'll definitely invest in a vaporiser, they'll probably be a lot cheaper and more available then too.

Also a potential issue with this article, although I am purely speculating, is that over here in the UK most people smoke 'spliffs' which are a mixture of cannabis and tobacco. It's actually pretty rare to find people who smoke pure weed on its own like myself. So it wouldn't surprise me if by 'cannabis cigarette' they meant a spliff, which would obviously be more carcinogenic then a pure joint. That's a possible error they might have made, but I don't have the time at the moment to dig that deep and go on a mad ADHD tangent I'm supposed to be studying at the moment.
 
Ok I wish I had time or care enough to find all the studies, but it's proven that tobacco is by far more damaging to lungs, throat, and mouth. Cannabis is a bronchiodialator where as tobacco is a constrictor.
 
Ok I wish I had time or care enough to find all the studies, but it's proven that tobacco is by far more damaging to lungs, throat, and mouth

Not only that, one quick study would be to eat several joints worth of marijuana or eat half a cigar. (do NOT eat half a cigar!!) If someone eats that amount of pot they will live, probably raid the refrigerator and sleep, but live. Eat that half of cigar and you could die with the amount of nicotine involved. That is a pretty good statement if anyone says that marijuana is more harmful than tobacco. But yes, smoking anything is not good, which is why humanity has progressed to vaporizers.

Honestly, that journalist has to be a real sad sack of shit to write about marijuana as a "serious, even fatal impact it can have".
 
how are every one of us automatically experts on the carcinogenic properties of cannabis?

And we're claiming that the evidence against cannabis has been disproven?

And illustrating the mechanics of cannabis as something where carcinogens are in a wrestling match against anti-carcinogens?

I think we are all cannabis homers here. I also love it and want it to win every argument. But it is smoke, that we are regularly filling our lungs with. It certainly doesn't make us healthier.

I think it's never a good idea to kick objectivity to the curb.

It is very true that, just as the pro-intolerance forces and mass media demonize cannabis, pro-cannabis people tend to refuse to see anything bad. They are tired of being lied to and punished, maybe, and stop trusting any information (that they don't like) about the herb.

No doubt that it is bad for your health to smoke anything.

But the article is clearly a piece of ignorant propaganda, perpetuating misinformation about cannabis.

So, your point - that we must remain realistic and ground our beliefs in science - is well-taken.
We want to avoid being ignorant, no matter what side we support.
 
David Nutt's riposte:

Smoke without fire? Scaremongering by the British Lung Foundation over cannabis vs tobacco

The BLF is an admirable charity that promotes lung health and supports those affected by lung disease. Unfortunately, last week they produced a press release promoting unfounded claims about the harms of cannabis to the lungs. These claims were uncritically parroted from this press release as ‘news’ by the BBC, Channel 4, Sky, the Independent, Telegraph, Metro, Evening Standard, the Huffington Post and more.

The BLF, who wish to promote awareness of “the serious, even fatal impact [cannabis] can have on the lungs”, managed to hit the headlines with a survey about public attitudes to cannabis commissioned alongside their new report reviewing existing evidence. Surveys, with their (often unsupported) appearance of objectivity, are a popular way for groups, commercial or otherwise, to win press attention. It has worked for them before – the Daily Mail has a ten-year old article archived online reporting a virtually identical story of BLF “research” apparently showing that the dangers of cannabis are underestimated, and worse than tobacco. The, as now, the BLF received news coverage as if they had made a breakthrough just through publishing a survey and a report of evidence. Confusingly, whilst this is the BLF’s second special report on cannabis, they have never dedicated a special report to tobacco, which causes the vast majority of lung cancer deaths and many other lung conditions.

This time around, the BBC, whose science coverage usually deserves praise, rehashed the first lines of the BLF’s press release, writing “88% [of the public] incorrectly thought tobacco cigarettes were more harmful than cannabis ones – when the risk of lung cancer is actually 20 times higher”. In this sentence, as in almost every news article I have seen on the subject, almost 9 in 10 of the public are condescended to as being mistaken, but where is the evidence for this assertion that tobacco is so much kinder to the lungs than cannabis? Could the public perhaps be wiser about drug harms than the BLF and the media? I had a closer look at the BLF’s report to check their evidence.

The BLF’s report itself references a great deal of scientific evidence, but it seems to be an attempt to collect evidence that supports their predetermined opinion that cannabis harms the lungs, rather than exploring the evidence to find out what the balance of findings really suggests. When the evidence they found was mixed, they came to firm conclusions that the most alarming interpretation of the most alarming evidence was true. This is most striking in the case of the lung cancer claim that tops the press release, that a cannabis joint is 20 times as carcinogenic as a cigarette. This is an old chestnut, listed amongst Wikipedia’s list of popular drug myths. But that didn’t stop Kenneth Gibson of the Scottish National Party lodging a motion (look for S4M-03197) in the Scottish Parliament last week on 8th June endorsing the BLF’s claims and recommendations.

This claim about the 20-fold cancer risk is prominent in the introductory ‘background’ information section of the BLF’s report. Here it assures the reader that the evidence explored in the report (section 3.2) shows this. But the report contradicts itself: Section 3.2 on cancer actually very reasonably says that “studies in human populations have yielded conflicting evidence on the subject: some suggest there is a link between smoking cannabis and lung cancer while others don’t [3 references]. It’s worth noting that these studies are of limited value as they looked at relatively small numbers of people and didn’t take into consideration the quantity of cannabis smoked or the effects of smoking a mixture of tobacco and cannabis. In addition, some previous evidence suggests that THC may have anti-carcinogenic effects”.

Having explained, with directions to three references, that the evidence is mixed and inconclusive, the report’s writer(s) disappointingly then give a long and overgenerous account of one of the three papers referenced, a 2008 study by Aldington et.al. (a thorough scientific rebuttal of which can be found here). They then dubiously interpret the study as suggesting that a joint is as carcinogenic as 20 cigarettes. Christopher Snowdon has written a blog post on just why this interpretation is wrong. Do the BLF at least give other evidence an airing? After considering Aldington’s paper, a much smaller account is given of another of their references, which says cannabis increases lung cancer risk 2.4 times, and they do not write anything about their third reference, which found no link to lung cancer. This last study, by Hashibe et. al., looked at more people’s cannabis use over a longer time, and so has a claim to be the most valid. Why did the BLF reference three studies then largely ignore the findings of two?

We cannot doubt the BLF’s worthy intentions to help us all look after our lungs, and indeed there are harm-reduction messages that should be heard about cannabis smoke, specifically that if you must use the drug despite the risks, rolling with tobacco may increase risk of harms, and that using a cannabis vaporiser instead of smoking it may decrease harms.

The BLF’s lack of care with the evidence, and the media’s lack of care in fact-checking, could have the opposite effect from their good intentions. Public confidence in science as a means of getting to the truth can only be harmed when the BBC reports “experts” mistakenly declaring that what 88% of us apparently think about cannabis is wrong. What’s more, if the BLF’s misguided information is believed, people could actually be put at greater risk of lung cancer, for example by cutting down on the cannabis in their joints and padding them out with more tobacco, or by making parents relatively more relaxed about finding out that their teenagers smoking cigarettes every day than finding out that they smoke the occasional joint.

2010-harm-index.jpg


(Apologies for low res image).

What can be done? The ISCD contacted the BBC on the 6th of June, but as yet the BBC have not replied or removed the inaccuracies although they have now included an alternative opinion on the subject from Peter Reynolds of Clear. The Metro, on the other hand, can be thoroughly commended for their prompt and prominent publication of critical responses to their article from me and other readers. We will pursue further corrections, firstly by contacting editors directly, and if that fails, through the PCC. I will update readers of this blog on any progress.

The ISCD’s aim is for ordinary people, without scientific expertise, to be able to find reliable information about the effects and risks of drugs. With thousands of voices clamouring to be heard, each offering conflicting views, it’s a huge challenge. As I write, the BLF’s claim about cannabis cigarettes being more carcinogenic than tobacco ones has already found its way onto Wikipedia’s information about cannabis harms, so Wikipedia currently reports, on different pages, the same claim as an evidenced fact and as a popular myth. Though I trust it won’t be there long, this shows how easily misinformation can gain the stamp of truth. The ISCD website, www.drugscience.org.uk, should help individuals who are looking for evidence-based information. Our drugs information page on cannabis provides scientifically evidenced information on the drug and its effects and harms. For information on the specific connection between cannabis and cancer, see Cancer Research UK’s balanced information.

We gave the BLF the opportunity to address the inaccuracies and inconsistencies of their report which they declined, thus missing an important opportunity to address the very real harms of smoking. Public health organisations are to be commended for trying to help the general public make better choices. Unfortunately in this case, the choice made was to confuse rather than inform.

http://profdavidnutt.wordpress.com/...ish-lung-foundation-over-cannabis-vs-tobacco/
 
The biggest dangers with cannabis in the UK, are;

1. Adulterated weed. You never know what its been sprayed with, you dont know if it may even have a synthetic cannibinoid additive.
2. Cannabis Strength. Cannabis strains are quite potent nowadays, and if you are not a seasoned toker, and you smoke to much, you may well experience Psychosis and/or Anxiety. They say that 1 in 10 users of cannabis experience a bad effect from smoking it. This is mainly due to the fact that too much THC in one go can trigger this Psychosis in certain people. Which leads me to...
..3. Strains. Strain Choice. Half of the time around here, the dealers don't even know what they have or what they are selling and are likely to just call it 'cheese' . If Someone who experiences the Psychotic effects from too much THC, they can obviously smoke less, but the ideal choice would be for them to smoke/vape an indica dominant strain, as they are higher in CBD. The CBD will counteract the THC's psychotic effects on these susceptible people, thus allowing them to medicate and/or enjoy their smoke.

For the reasons above, this is why it should be Legalised and Regulated.
People are unnecessarily having these psychotic symptoms simply due to adulterants, being susceptible, wrong strain or a combination of all 3.


As for the Smoke harming your lungs? If you have the time, watch this informative video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8Md2WNqqxTQ



Lastly,

I am Sick of seeing ketamine being ranked lower danger/health damage than many other drugs out there. If someone gets addicted to it, it is very harmful on the bladder, kidneys and urinary Tract.
How can Cannabis be Class B and Ketamine be Class C?
 
I am Sick of seeing ketamine being ranked lower danger/health damage than many other drugs out there. If someone gets addicted to it, it is very harmful on the bladder, kidneys and urinary Tract.
How can Cannabis be Class B and Ketamine be Class C?

It's not a case of someone getting addicted to it - it's users doing stupid amounts over a long-period of time that causes the damage to the bladder. Anyone doing 20x usual dose of any drug (paracetamol, for example) is going to end up doing themselves harm.

Couple that with the fact that Ketamine is very difficult (nearly impossible) to overdose on, I'm surprised it's ranked as more harmful than MDMA, mephedrone, etc. I can only think that it's because some people choose IM (or IV?) as their route of administration for Ketamine.

As to why Cannabis is higher and a class B, I'm not sure… but ketamine is certainly less harmful than everything else ahead of it on that list :)
 
Top