Twelve Step Recovery... Vs Harm Reduction

[monkeyemergency]

Hello all! I've been away for a while (4 months) in a drug treatment centre due to legal complications of my opiate use I've been introduced to and have been attending Narcotics Anonymous meetings, and still attend them now i'm out of treatment and in a halfway/support house. Now, i'm interested to learn what some bluelighters think of the twelve step fellowships and their programme. I've been, for most of my using life, an avid supporter of the harm reduction approach to drug use and addiction. I've been having trouble adapting to the 12 step approach, abstinence, higher power etc..

I do enjoy many parts of NA and do see much of it as quite rational, but just can't handle some of it! I'm especially good at picking out flaws in things and wasting time getting hung up on little inconsistencies and things which NA seems to have an abundance of e.g "we must abstain from all mood and mind altering chemicals in order to recover" - really? really? do they understand what a mind or mood altering chemical is?! They sit outside the meetings drinking and smoking mood and mind altering chemicals!

It's outrageous! And the prejudiced and stone age mentality many NA members have towards psychiatric medication...

I am having a real hard time with it eh Its just like the entire programme is set at odds with everything i have learned and believed in the past...

Any responses would be appreciated, not sure exactly what i'm asking, i suppose just the experience of people coming in to NA from a harm reduction-ish background and those who have been "reasonably" intelligent and functioning addicts/users.

Another issue i'm having is just the fact that in my area Opioid/opiate use is very rare and the majority of people in NA, the treatment center i was in and my halfway house are Methamphetamine or Alcohol addicts.. So it's hard for me to relate to alot.

And also many of them come from gang/criminal cultures, where as i'm just a guy who takes heaps of drugs and spends hours researching about the risks involved with them and their addictive potential, making sure i don't take any dangerous or contraindicated combinations of drugs, practices safe injection techniques etc.. I don't feel like i fit in! The biggest criminal activity I've ever been involved in is cooking Homebake Heroin with my mates for our own use and trading pharmaceuticals and research chems with each other

 

[stardust.hero]

I always thought it was very hypocritical when I went to rehab to allow cigarettes and allow 24/7 coffee JUST because they believed that was the basis of how AA started--2 guys and some coffee trying to stay clean. :-\ You have to take what you can translate from AA and NA and just ignore the rest of the hypocrisy. So sorry to hear you are having a difficult time seeing your place within the community because of the difference. I can completely understand where you are coming from.

I support the 12 step program only because I know people who are serious problems who followed the book and the guidelines exactly and have fixed there life and are completely straight. I also understand the opposite side of the program and how primitive and outdated it can be at times (IMO).

 

[mrflowers00]

at least where i live people in AA (i don't like NA) are very nice and open minded as well they genuinely want to help you and believe (most do not all) that if you take medication as prescribed your still sober but i've had an impossible time finishing the steps farthest i've got is the sixth and went back out i think that 12 step programs will increase your chances of being sober (even with evidence against it) increase by a fair amount hang in there and don't get hung up on the flaws of the program everything/one has flaws just get the help you need and deserve

 

[Anomaly88]

Iv'e been in the program for 6 months. Just got 6 months on the 11th. NA / AA whatever. I like NA cause they seem to be more understanding and passionate towards me. Well anyways.. What you are saying everyone goes through when they first get there. Some more than others. What you are looking at is all the differences instead of the similarities. A drug is a drug. Doesn't matter. Period. Who the fuck cares if they were into uppers when you were into downers. The only thing that matters is that they are all drug addicts. Now for the coffee and cigs. Yes, i was giving a guy shit when i first got there about it. Because i quit ciggs and caffeine. Just recently started drinking sodas again I mean honestly it is what works for you. Take what helps you and leave all the rest. It is about bettering your life. Drugs arent the problem we are. And i can relate with all of what you said. I never got into much criminal activity i stayed at home and surfed BL while fuct out of my mind. lol. i loved researching all about drugs. I guess u can call me one of those NA purist from being a former heroin addict who didnt give a fuck what hurt me to someone who now sees there body as a temple! haha i joke about that but im for real. Im soo into living a healthy life style. But in all honest if you think that you can still use drugs recreationally than you have not been beaten enough. Sounds to me like you are trying to find an excuse for the program not to work for you and a reason to leave. Not trying to be a dick but a lot of people try to find reasons for this program not to work for them and to go back out and live in the misery until they are burnt out enough to be willing to do everything they possibly can to stay clean. If that is not the case for you then i am sorry to say.. you probably wont stay clean for too long. It requires a lot of effort to do this but once you have become willing are are ready to go to any lengths then it is simple. Good luck with whatever you were trying to get answered. To me it seems like you made this thread to see if anyone can agree with you that NA is dumb and people who think NA is dumb are just people who are to afraid or not able to follow simple suggestions and change their lives.

 

[stardust.hero]

Anom you're the best.

 

[Anomaly88]

:D wasnt trying to go on a rant. Just NA has changed my whole perspective on life. I give everything to NA. Its the family that i never had. It has turned me into a grown up. Accepting responsibilities all that fun stuff. I just hate people who bash N/A. Not saying you were... was just a little confused on what the purpose of this thread was. Anyways, good luck with your recovery!!!

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I have no doubt that the twelve-step program works, but I feel like if the state sanctioned harm reduction then many many many more drug-dependent people could lead healthy lives.

Its sad, but right now the program is your best bet. Keep in mind what your higher goal is.

I think you can find your niche as well as learn a lot about people who aren't like you. In this respect it could be an interesting experience.

Keep your chin up man!

 

[herbavore]

I think you can find your niche as well as learn a lot of about people who aren't like you. In this respect it could be an interesting experience.

That is a really good point. Sometimes we fool ourselves into thinking that everything we can benefit from has to be completely comfortable to us. It is often the most uncomfortable places, as well as people that we do not agree with that teach us to hone our own critical thinking skills. All the criticisms I have ever heard about the program come down to three things basically:

1) I don't believe in a higher power.
You don't have to believe in a being with a master plan even though that is undoubtedly the language that is used. To reject the twelve steps on this basis is like rejecting all the usefulness of meditation or Mindfulness philosophy because you are not a religious Buddhist.

2) It feels like a cult.
It can be for a lot of people but there are far more for whom it is a powerful tool of support and they feel an allegiance and acceptance and support from a very diverse group of people with only one thing in common: addiction.

3) I have to define myself as an addict and that is a lifelong definition no matter what I do.
I look at this the same way I look at the higher power thing. It can be interpreted your own way. The way I would interpret it is that you have known addiction. You can change that, but you will carry with you forever the knowledge of all that went into making you an addict--the thinking, the physical components, the psychology, the triggers etc. In that way, your experience will always be a part of you. I agree that I like the Smart Recovery or Rational Recovery model better that lets people explore whether total abstinence is needed or not but that seems to be a very slippery slope for most.

 

[monkeyemergency]

Thanks for all your replies guys. I'm trying to be open minded but at the moment it seems like, i just haven't hit a rock bottom that can give me any motivation to quit drugs, i mean i came into recovery because of the police, i loved my using, had a great time, got snapped. Basically the police interfered with my drug use.. I have all the people in treatment telling me what will happen if i keep using. I'm just arrogant enough to say fuck it won't happen to me. I just feel like the rewards i get from using have always outweighed the consequences and until that balance shifts i have no motivation to change, i'd like not to go through some horrible episode of reckless drug use and prison or whatever, but I honestly don't believe it'll happen to me (I know so many people must have said that and been wrong). And i was just so much happier on a stable dose of an opioid drug.. Fuck..

At the moment i just want to go get some smack grrr

 

[herbavore]

^that sounds hard. And sad. You'll get there, but you're right, it won't be from anything that anyone else says, no matter how scary. Take good care of yourself. Nothing is ever permanent, that's for sure.