Trying to kick mild opiate habit - what helps?

[Crankinit]

Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. Basically the after-effects which continue even when you're no longer in active withdrawal, a lot of people have issues with depression etc for months after coming off opiates.

 

[Captain Brewster]

You really have to taper, the cold turkey approach is unrealistic in my opinion if you're a working professional.

Damn straight, well, I can't imagine your boss being too happy with the state you've left the toilet in at the end of the day.

I'm not a professional, so I don't get my own toilet.

 

[werk2play]

Happy to report that using the tramadol after the hydrocodone did the trick for me. I even have some extra left over and I have no urge to take them. Down to .25mg of Xanax a day as well and made sure that I had plenty to ride things out with. Thank you Xanax! That's also another substance you have to respect and taper down off of. I usually carry a few mgs with me in the event I ever have a little panic attack, although I don't need it, I just created my own habit. Will probably keep the Xanax in my pocket for a few more months, just in case although I'm feeling pretty good sober now. Interesting part about my taper was when I was down to the very end of my tramadol, I was sneezing like a mofo. for about two days. I think it was from the tramadol but might have just been allergies. I've also been moving around a lot and trying to eat healthy. Exercise, keeping busy and enjoying life is key. I have a daily regimen and job make sure I don't spend too much time just sitting around on my ass not being productive. I do drink a beer when I get home from work though at night, but that's it. Just one beer or a single glass of wine. Glass of red wine a day never hurt anyone and I understand it's actually not bad for you if you can manage to keep it the "one" glass.

 

[werk2play]

Now I'm on Zoloft and 150mg a day, almost two years later and still craving my hydros and oxy. I got a hold of some hydros and all I could take was two 10mgs and get a mild high. The zoloft seems to block the effects. I tried taking 6 x 10mgs and it was a waste. Felt just as high if I took two. Guess that's a god send. Different experience for me. After taking about 40x10mg pills over a one week period along with some morphine pills I had no withdrawal. Just kept taking my zoloft and my clonzepam, presribed by my dr. and no withdrawals. I guess my doses are not that much. If you're taking narcotics for a week, that's about the limit and if you start getting into the two and three week period then you're probably gonna be in trouble? Don't know. I sure did feel good though taking those hydros and morphine pills. Zoloft keeps me at an even keel but I still have a craving to feel more stimulation. Norcos got me much higher than the morphine ER pills. I crushed them and they still didn't get me as high as the hydros.

 

[What was it?]

HELLLLOOOOOOOOOOO BLUELIGHTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM BACK AFTER 2 YEARS OF SILENCE! Luckily the admin was kind with getting my password sorted. So to cut a long story short, over the last 2 years things have been up and down but all in all I have matured emotionally and with my use. However, over the last 2 months this has changed due to some unforeseen circumstances I don't yet want to talk about at this time. ANyways, so I have been staying at home mostly for the last 2 months and using pretty much daily, both opiates (high doses) and benzo (not daily and only medical doses). Both are pr4escribed to me for certain conditions. However I have abused them and added streert H to the mix - a lot. I only snort, swallow tablets and have IMéd and SCéd a few times (maybe 5). IV morphine only in the hospital. Besides H I have been abusing hydromorphone and morphine, orally and the dilaudids also via insulflation and SC shots. I have only few opiates left (8 4mg tabs) and I want to quit. The H was really increasing my tolerance and sending me broke. My relationship with my gf is strained and I want to quit. Sooooo.....I have never gone this long in a row so am shit-scared about the WITHDRAWAL!!!! Does anybody have any advice? At the moment barely feel 250mg of oral morphine or 20mg of insulfalted Hydromorphone. For me, that's bad. I used to get consistently high off 60-120mg of Oxycodone or 100-160mg of morphine for the last 3 years....no more. Really scary. My tolerance is through the roof. Please help!! Even if its only kind words.

Wow, and it really makes me feel a bit nostalgic but also sad that I have not been able to become clean five years later. I can't believe I posted the original post in this thread in SEP 2010. It feels like 2 years ago or so. Goes to show how drugs rob us of parts of our life.

 

[spacejunk]

Welcome back man, glad to hear you got your password sorted.

Have you ever sought help in getting control of your habit through drug counselling and detox services?
Dunno what part of the country you're in, but i've had excellent help from a drug clinic in my local area which has provided me with social, medical and counselling services, all free of charge. Gave me the support i kinda needed to kick opiates, which i was always really scared of facing up to. Its a daunting prospect, but looking back i'm so glad i had their support (and that of my friends and partner) to clean up.

All the best, i hope you can find a way to work through your addiction.

 

[What was it?]

The truth is, I have to be really careful with psychiatrists, psychologists etc in terms of talking about addiction. i don't talk to my psychiatrist about it. The reason being i receive a large chunk of income protection insurance every month and this would be jeopardized if any of the aforementionned leaked it to the insurance company. I do go to smart recovery from time to time and have used counselling services at needle exchange programs with the promise of not having to disclose my surname as well as done a 1-month rehab overseas etc. I don't seem to be able to totally get a grip on my habit. Now that the dangerous drug unit (DDU) is on my ass for doctor shopping (finally after dodging it skillfully for 5 years) I have decided to stop opiates as I cant afford street Heroin. The quality is too low in Australia - it is ridiculous. 20% pure here is A-Grade It takes me $500 for a moderately ok buzz....nothing special. On holidays it would cost me 10euros for being close to an OD when you go into the black population drug quarters to score good dope in Amsterdam - even cheaper than Laos, Cambodia or Vietnam. What a difference in price! Anyway, long story short - I need to quit. It's not sustainable from any point of view.

 

[spacejunk]

Have you ever tried a buprenorphine rapid taper?
A lot of people have great success with them - miself included.
There is a lot of really good info to manage tapers and detox all over BL, from taper plans to comfort meds and all the rest of it.
Hoofully you can find something worth pursuing.
I never understood how heroin addicts could afford australian gear without living a life of crime (or blow big salaries on evading junk sickness). It's fucked.

All the best man, i hope the community and wealth of knowledge here can be of assistance.

 

[tyrael]

Have you ever tried a buprenorphine rapid taper?
A lot of people have great success with them - miself included.
....

That's great to hear spacejunk!! I took the slow route personally - but each to their own imo!

I've realised I've bombarded this post with links, so for those tl;dr
Opioid dependence treatment - Where to start

-------

This pdf will give anyone looking to get off opiates the basics of DASSA's and the program. In terms of titrating doses, don't be worried they're going to drop you some ridiculous amount in a day or two - believe it or not they are reasonable people!

There are (technically) two generalised programs one can be "enrolled" in ODSP (Opioid Dependence Substitution Program) or SOSP (Suboxone Opioid Substitution Program). However your program, scheduling, dosing (dose, frequency and possibility of takeaways#), place of procurement, etc. etc. are all decided between your assigned (ADIS) counsellor, GP and pharmacist.



I will add the "recommended" tapering schedules later (however considering the multitude of variables which affects one's ability to successfully become "clean"*....), if you were to enter a program such as DASSA(or one similar in you state/town) I have found - from personal experience, speaking with the staff (in a non-self related rehab context) and friend who have worked for the organisation - all these variables are generally taken into account and a program/schedule is drawn up specific to your circumstances.

(I'm sure spacejunk wouldn't mind either but) Any questions/apprehensiveness feel free to PM either one of us with questions.

Goodluck!



# DO NOT assume you will get take away.....even ever!! Generally after x-amount of time, once one has "proven themselves", the prescriber will allow a certain number of take aways (ie, instead of dosing at the pharmacy/DACAS, a certain number of take aways will be permitted). As far as I can tell, this number of take aways are state dependent [something I've got to look into tbh].
* I asterixed "clean", purely because imo it's not the best descriptive nor helpful word for one trying to kick an opiate (or any drug) addiction.

 

[tyrael]

A few extra points I'd like to make (in fact I'm contemplating writing an Australia-specific "Opiates Kicking The Habit" - spacejunk, thoughts? lend a hand for that?).....

1. (if you are attempting to kick it yourself) DO NOT go straight from your opiate of choice to bupe/methadone .... you'll be in a world of hurt!*

2. Going through an organisation designed to help with these sorts of things will reduce/prevent this from happening. (you're experience may vary)

3. Be completely HONEST with your OSP (Opiate Substitution Program) councilor^! You won't get "in trouble", you won't get thrown to the police, the SWAT aren't going to smash through the windows, the worse that may happen is a stern look from the person you're speaking to!

4. Do not make the mistake (I'm only making it a point because I have heard of some doing it) of thinking that Methadone and Suboxone (in what ever form they may be) are bioequivalent. That is (to put it simply) to say, 1mg Buprenorphine == 1mg Methadone - this is wrong and can lead to over-doses. The following image should help with this (plus explain a little bit re: precipitated withdrawals)....

5. The following table is generally used to taper users off of Buprenorphine (after being on it a while). However these number are not hard and fixed and are variable to each person's circumstances...

6. I'm not going to go into the different forms of OSP. Again if there's interest I will list them (with pros and cons).




* The reason due to precipitated withdrawals - I won't go into specifics here. Just don't do it. If enough people want the details I'll give an explanation, just for the moment it's not worth it.
^ Caveat: If you're stupid enough - let alone stupid enough to announce it - to talk up/brag about your stash/grow house/lab/etc.....then, yes, you will get a visit! (In fact it's legal obligation for them to notify the police. While we're on topic - same goes for GPs, psychologist and psychiatrist!)

 

[MUSHET]

Man, your original list of things to do during withdrawal was pretty sound in my opinion, you seemed to cover most things and gave some good advice! I'd practice what you preach, sure you might have developed a bigger habit and dabbled in stronger opiates such as H, but it's all still opiate addiction. The initial physical withdrawal as you know will be a bummer for a week, just do what you used to do 5 years ago.

Once you get the physical shit out of the way, trying to make it as easy as possible for yourself by doing the things on your list, if you work take a few days off at least on 'holiday' and cold turkey it - then go and perhaps seek help with your addiction issues, whether that's a shrink (although you're not keen) or a group therapy programme, or willpower if you can do that.

You can do it, you Know what to expect and have done in before. Yes, it wil be hard and at times during the physical withdrawal awful, but remember, that part is over in a matter of days. Stay hydrated, make sure you try and eat even if you're spewing and shitting, but it will be over in a matter of days.

Good luck.

 

[spacejunk]

(I'm sure spacejunk wouldn't mind either but) Any questions/apprehensiveness feel free to PM either one of us with questions.

Yeah, of course, just drop me a PM any time - always welcome

A few extra points I'd like to make (in fact I'm contemplating writing an Australia-specific "Opiates Kicking The Habit" - spacejunk, thoughts? lend a hand for that?)

Yeah man, we are always looking for more interesting threads and discussion in AusDD, so if you can bring anything to the table in that regard, the more the merrier!
I will say though, we already have the broader Quitting and tapering thread so it would be important to frame the discussion in terms that prevent too much cross-over or confusion arising from similarity.
Perhaps structuring it in terms of "techniques for successful opiate detox", or "tricks and methods for kicking opiates, australian style" (off the cuff suggestions, but hopefully you know what i'm getting at).

And yeah, absolutely - i'm more than happy to help and contribute. I find that helping other addicts is really helpful for my own recovery.
Cheers mate

 

[What was it?]

Thank you Mushet, it means a lot to me to hear those encouraging words. I will actually also update the list I put in the initial post with a few things I aleartn a long the years. One major aid in opiate withdrawal are larger doses of Lyrica (pregabalin). It can really work wonders. Thank again mate.

 

[MUSHET]

^ no problem man, glad to help.

 

[What was it?]

I have edited and updated my initial old list from 2011 and cut out some of the emotional talk. I am trying to make this list as large as possible not only for me but also to help others who come across it on the forum. Any additions much appreciated still!!!

 

[What was it?]

Little update here - going on 18 days clean off opiates and doing pretty well. Years of using and all the fuss and finally I feel like I can just quit. It's too bizarre to fully comprehend yet but it's cool!

 

[MUSHET]

Great stuff man! How was the first week, was it as bad as you dreaded?

 

[lostNfound]

https://www.facebook.com/3ree6ixty/videos/10156411542535367/

 

[Benjaminoacidic]

Try binaural and isochronic tones for withdrawal

Updated from 2011, it's now Dec 2015 and I am kicking a 2 month run on Hydromorphone, Morphine, Oxycodone, and Diamorphine


TOP THINGS AT A GLANCE: Ibuprofen, Loperamide (Immodium), Pregabalin (Lyrica), Clonidine (Catapres), benzodiazepines (especially of the anxiolitic kind such as diazepam, clonazepam, alprazolam and lorazepam), water, hot baths, any exercise/movement, SMART recovery meetings;

1. magnesium tablets
2. tonic water
3. electrolyte drinks
4. Multi V
5. L-Tryptophan
6. L-Tyrosine
7. NSAIDS - Ibuprofen or Naproxen Sodium preferred
8. 5-HTP
9. Plenty of water
10. fish oil
11. ginger tea
12. bananas
13. immodium
14. sex
15. exercise
16. taking a holiday at a retreat or short rehab
17. shopping
18. hot showers
19.Smart Recovery meeting run by Drug Arm (these are excellent and they use a variety of techniques including CBT)
20. NA meetings (and working a full program such as having a sponsor,doing service, step work, reading, etc)
21, drug counselling
22. talking to friends
23. massages
24. hot baths
25. If able to access and if really necessary, clonidine, pregabalin or gabapentin also help (instead of benzos) - EDIT 2015, along with immodium, Lyrica (pregabalin) is the best withdrawal aid for me
26. some people advocate anti-histamines but they make me feel worse and the next day drowsiness is unpleasant as compared to benzos
27. sauna (only for mild withdrawals where blood pressure isn't too high)
28. smiling and laughing: comedys, friends, socializing.
29. Probiotics for your gut
30. sleep 7.5 - 9 hours where possible
31. sun exposure (Vitamin D)
32. nutrition: nuts, seeds, vegetables and fruit, lean meat (avoid junk food, sweets and dairy)
33. Avoid caffeine at all cost as it's a hindrance to recovery and worsens anxiety, B-vitamins should also be avoided as early in recovery they can increase anxiety, too
34. Korean ginseng can help against lethargy after day 3 when there are no blood pressure issues
35. swimming, cycling, walking, yoga and meditation
36. if alcohol, kava or benzodiazepines are utilized, ideally in small amounts and only for a few days to maximum 2 weeks
37. for those inclined maintenance or a quick taper on Subutex/suboxone or methadone
38. Melatonin

edit 2015: for PAWS some of these things that always help me:

For lack of motivation, anhedonia and lethargy:
- Lyrica (pregabalin)
-L-Tyrosine
- on really really bad days pharmaceutical dexamphetamine (better than modafinil or methylphenidate aka Ritalin', then there is another newer one available here in Oz, Vyvanse) if one is willing to take it and isn't trying to be completely abstinent from addictive substances
- any form of exercise (running, weights and yoga)
[/B][/B]
For anxiety:
- again Lyrica (pregabalin) - What a wonder medicine!!!
- light usage of benzos
- kava kava
- chamomille tea
- meditation
- any form of exercise (running, weights, yoga)

Binaural and isochronic tones for withdrawal helped me amazingly, 4 day's without anxiety, fidgeting, throwing up. Just didn't count on having no energy, could hardly move. Need to take all the healthy energy boosting supplements(i'm new to forums and asking for help.) But give the tones a try, with supplements may just do the trick!