Well this weekend is it. I'm taking off work Friday and starting my detox Thursday when I get off. I'm addicted to heroin. I got suboxone to help but am scared shitless. I've been down this road before but this it I've made promises and I can't go on like this. It seems like as soon as I take the suboxone 30 minutes later I go into terrible withdrawals. Last time I tried I took 1 1/2 subs and when it started I took another one. I was throwing up violently and diarrhea came right after and it was a horrible pain. I only lasted a day and half before giving up. Does anybody know a better less painful way? I don't smoke weed but I was thinking about getting real high to help with the pain. Any thoughts or suggestions from somebody that's been through this would be very much appreciated. I'm willing to try anything. I got Thursday night till Monday to get straight cause I'm out of vacation time.
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H&R Moderators: streaM Freak
Trying to detox from heroin this weekend. Help please
- Thread starter Jh8254
- Start date
herbavore
Bluelight Crew
Go to this thread and especially to post #14 by neversickanymore. Lots of good info.
Hopefully people with more experience will chime in soon (sometimes it takes a while for threads to catch on but don't get discouraged). You've made a good decision--don't get scared off by the sickness--remember it is temporary.
Hopefully people with more experience will chime in soon (sometimes it takes a while for threads to catch on but don't get discouraged). You've made a good decision--don't get scared off by the sickness--remember it is temporary.
cj
Bluelight Crew
The only problem with sub is that it will prolong the withdrawal. If you want to be over the sickness by Monday then you should start your sub taper as soon as possible.
cj
Bluelight Crew
no you can not mix immodium and suboxone! that will cause precipitated withdrawal if done wrong. I am on my way out for the day so I cant explain properly right now. basically wait at least 24 hours after your last dose of heroin or immodium before taking suboxone.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Actually loperamide and buprenorphine (suboxone) are perfectly fine to take together. Both super high doses of loperamide (e.g. 150mg) and more normal lower doses (e.g. 2-20mg) will be fine with buprenorhpine. But unless diarrhea is still a problem after taking the suboxone, why would you take loperamide? There isn't much point other than that.
It sounds a lot like you are going into precipitated withdrawal when you start taking Suboxone. Try waiting longer, 12-24hrs (24hrs is always a safe bet for something like heroin), after your last dose of heroin before taking the suboxone.
Keep in mind that, apart from possibly the first day or three off heroin, no one really needs even 8mg of buprenorphine. I am not telling you not to take that much, just to be aware that is really isn't necessary to avoid heroin withdrawal. 2mg-6mg is really enough to deal with the acute heroin withdrawal.
Loperamide is not nearly as effective as suboxone/buprenorphine for treating withdrawal. Loperamide only addresses gastrointestinal side effects of withdrawal (for the most part) are reasonable dosages (e.g. 2-40mg). There is very, very little reason to take both loperamide AND buprenorphine at the same time, and if you do find you're still having bad diahrea or something, just take a small dose of loperamide (2-10mg, starting off at 2mg and working your way up 2mg at a time, in 1hr increments, until you aren't pissing out your ass every ten minutes). Taking loperamide in conjunction with buprenorphine will constipate you more than you probably would like.
The only way to get loperamide to deal with more significant symptoms of heroin withdrawal is to take huge doses (80-160mg). In such dosages enough loperamide is able to cross the BBB to actually get you a little high (or buzzed, although in heroin withdrawal it probably won't feel like it, it'll just make you normal kinda like the suboxone). There are some nasty side effects of the super high dose loperamide, like bad dehydration, which is why I don't generally recommend it when people are in acute withdrawal, especially from a full agonist short acting opioid like heroin. Loperamide doesn't work as well as buprenorphine at any dose to manage withdrawal from heroin, and the two drugs work in very different ways with significantly different effects and side effects. Bupe is much more effective than lope and safer too.
I would stick to the suboxone/buprenorphine. Like CJ said, and this is really important, avoid the symptoms of precipitated withdrawal you're experiencing when switching onto suboxone by waiting 24hrs after your last dose of heroin (or other full agonist opioid). Like I said, don't worry about having to wait after taking loperamide, taking buprenorphine after it will not lead to precipitated withdrawal.
If you have Suboxone strips, try rinsing your mouth out with Listerine (or other ethanol based mouth wash; fluorine based mouthwash won't work), and directly after spitting the mouthwash out slip the Suboxone strip under your tongue. Doing this will make it dissolve like butter on a hot pan - literally instantly. It will also help your system absorb a bit more buprenorphine compared to without using the mouthwash as well as get it into your system a little faster.
It's worth saying again: Remember to wait 24hrs since your last dose of heroin, until you feel all the effects of bad withdrawal, before taking any Suboxone. If you do that, the suboxone will work really well for you. Some people don't need to wait as long, I've only had to wait like six hours in the past with heroin, other only have to wait 12hrs, but then again yet others have to wait 30hrs. 24hrs is a very safe bet, and no one should need to wait more than 48hrs after their last dose of heroin to avoid precipitated withdrawals with buprenorphine.
If you're just trying to kick, don't take the suboxone for more than 7-14 days, and try to take the lowest dose you're comfortable with. That will make the transition off suboxone the easiest possible, although if you only take it for 7-14 days there shouldn't really be any significant withdrawal from the suboxone other than maybe craving an opioid anyways.
Let us know how it goes. Good luck!
It sounds a lot like you are going into precipitated withdrawal when you start taking Suboxone. Try waiting longer, 12-24hrs (24hrs is always a safe bet for something like heroin), after your last dose of heroin before taking the suboxone.
Keep in mind that, apart from possibly the first day or three off heroin, no one really needs even 8mg of buprenorphine. I am not telling you not to take that much, just to be aware that is really isn't necessary to avoid heroin withdrawal. 2mg-6mg is really enough to deal with the acute heroin withdrawal.
Loperamide is not nearly as effective as suboxone/buprenorphine for treating withdrawal. Loperamide only addresses gastrointestinal side effects of withdrawal (for the most part) are reasonable dosages (e.g. 2-40mg). There is very, very little reason to take both loperamide AND buprenorphine at the same time, and if you do find you're still having bad diahrea or something, just take a small dose of loperamide (2-10mg, starting off at 2mg and working your way up 2mg at a time, in 1hr increments, until you aren't pissing out your ass every ten minutes). Taking loperamide in conjunction with buprenorphine will constipate you more than you probably would like.
The only way to get loperamide to deal with more significant symptoms of heroin withdrawal is to take huge doses (80-160mg). In such dosages enough loperamide is able to cross the BBB to actually get you a little high (or buzzed, although in heroin withdrawal it probably won't feel like it, it'll just make you normal kinda like the suboxone). There are some nasty side effects of the super high dose loperamide, like bad dehydration, which is why I don't generally recommend it when people are in acute withdrawal, especially from a full agonist short acting opioid like heroin. Loperamide doesn't work as well as buprenorphine at any dose to manage withdrawal from heroin, and the two drugs work in very different ways with significantly different effects and side effects. Bupe is much more effective than lope and safer too.
I would stick to the suboxone/buprenorphine. Like CJ said, and this is really important, avoid the symptoms of precipitated withdrawal you're experiencing when switching onto suboxone by waiting 24hrs after your last dose of heroin (or other full agonist opioid). Like I said, don't worry about having to wait after taking loperamide, taking buprenorphine after it will not lead to precipitated withdrawal.
If you have Suboxone strips, try rinsing your mouth out with Listerine (or other ethanol based mouth wash; fluorine based mouthwash won't work), and directly after spitting the mouthwash out slip the Suboxone strip under your tongue. Doing this will make it dissolve like butter on a hot pan - literally instantly. It will also help your system absorb a bit more buprenorphine compared to without using the mouthwash as well as get it into your system a little faster.
It's worth saying again: Remember to wait 24hrs since your last dose of heroin, until you feel all the effects of bad withdrawal, before taking any Suboxone. If you do that, the suboxone will work really well for you. Some people don't need to wait as long, I've only had to wait like six hours in the past with heroin, other only have to wait 12hrs, but then again yet others have to wait 30hrs. 24hrs is a very safe bet, and no one should need to wait more than 48hrs after their last dose of heroin to avoid precipitated withdrawals with buprenorphine.
If you're just trying to kick, don't take the suboxone for more than 7-14 days, and try to take the lowest dose you're comfortable with. That will make the transition off suboxone the easiest possible, although if you only take it for 7-14 days there shouldn't really be any significant withdrawal from the suboxone other than maybe craving an opioid anyways.
Let us know how it goes. Good luck!
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Lyrica or gabapentin has really been a lifesaver for my withdrawals. Heroin wds are extremely intense but you'll feel better after only a few days. I unfortunately took the methadone route and am still withdrawing after 9 days. If you do try the subs (I really wouldn't) you need to wait until you feel extremely bad or else it'll just get worse. Good luck, you can do it.
cj
Bluelight Crew
My bad I was under the impression that inducting on suboxone while still on loperamide could cause precipitated withdrawal. looks like I was wrong my bad.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
No worries, I mean so little is discussed about loperamide generally it's understandable, not to mention how many misunderstandings and myths are out there circulating around Buprenorphine and opioids more generally.
I can't imagine how shitty, pun intended, it would be to get P/W from taking bupe after lope. I'd be like violent diarrhea super tornado...
I can't imagine how shitty, pun intended, it would be to get P/W from taking bupe after lope. I'd be like violent diarrhea super tornado...
I read on another thread that loperamide acts like suboxone and is an opiate blocker and can actually help stop the withdrawals and not just for the diarrhea. and I'm going to work tomorrow and going to start this when I get off so I'm going to have to use in the morning or I won't make it through the day so I figure I'll give myself about 8-10 hrs then take the suboxone. Think that enough time to avoid precipitated withdrawals?
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
That isn't really true, especially not outside heroic doses (e.g. >40mg), which bring unnecessary side effects. It generally take 80mg or more to stop most effects or withdrawal. Loperamide doesn't "block" the effects of other opioids (which the buprenorphine in suboxone does achieve), although at high doses this is possible to a small degree (we're talking like 100mg or more here, which would be 50+ pills, and again some nasty side effects).
8-10hrs may or may not be enough time to avoid precipitated withdrawal. It is strongly recommended you wait a minimum of 12hrs, and frankly you shouldn't begin taking it until you're well into withdrawal (which for most people is around the 24hr mark).
If you have it avaliable, I strongly recommend stick to the Suboxone. Try taking loperamide until you can get 24hrs (or if you must, although you risk more precipitated withdrawal, 12hrs) since your last dose. Frankly though, I don't think I've ever met anyone who simply can't make it 24hrs after their last dose to take buprenorphine. If that is the case for you, you might want to consider a 21 day methadone taper (or better yet find yourself a couple hundred milligrams on the black market).
The bottom line is that is you have Suboxone, there is just no point in relying on loperamide to get you through withdrawal. The one exception to that rule may (or may not) people on high doses of methadone, but that doesn't apply here.
Good luck!
8-10hrs may or may not be enough time to avoid precipitated withdrawal. It is strongly recommended you wait a minimum of 12hrs, and frankly you shouldn't begin taking it until you're well into withdrawal (which for most people is around the 24hr mark).
If you have it avaliable, I strongly recommend stick to the Suboxone. Try taking loperamide until you can get 24hrs (or if you must, although you risk more precipitated withdrawal, 12hrs) since your last dose. Frankly though, I don't think I've ever met anyone who simply can't make it 24hrs after their last dose to take buprenorphine. If that is the case for you, you might want to consider a 21 day methadone taper (or better yet find yourself a couple hundred milligrams on the black market).
The bottom line is that is you have Suboxone, there is just no point in relying on loperamide to get you through withdrawal. The one exception to that rule may (or may not) people on high doses of methadone, but that doesn't apply here.
Good luck!
I never waited very long before taking suboxone and went into crazy ass withdrawals this time I waited over night and slept in and after 14 hrs took the suboxone when I couldn't take it anymore and it worked. I felt like shit for a hr or two and still feel a little off but I'm up and about. I guess that's the trick is to wait as long as you can before taking it. Now I just need to stay sober. Thanks for the help.
Phil.McKeer
Bluelighter
OP, do you have a taper plan figured out? You're going to want to gradually decrease your dose of buprenorphine every day until gradually reaching 0mg/day. I prefer a very rapid taper that takes about a week, but others go longer, some much longer.
How do you plan to taper?
How do you plan to taper?