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Truth ,What is your Source

but logical invalidity does not render something meaningless/"untrue"; unless you go logical positivist. i'd wager to say all metaphysical systems are self-contradictory when you would logically scrutinize them (and it seems the vienna circle agreed on that as well). its probably because the human being is such a self-contradiction. while i also believe there to be singular 'truth' (though only beyond any 'language' whatsoever), your argument here only holds in a context of logical positivism.
 
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If logical invalidity doesn't render something untrue, what is the point of philosophy? Does this not render all arguments equally valid? I'm not saying that a statement has to be scientifically verifiable to have meaning.
 
What's logical invalidity? I'm married to a math teacher, and I don't remember ever hearing that expression.

If by 'logically invalidate' you mean show a statement to be true whose truth precludes your original statement's truth, then yes, you've rendered the original statement untrue, unless someone can overturn the truth of one of your terms. For example, if I say 'Your name is Cliff.' and you pull out an ID that has a name other than Cliff, you've basically logically proven your name is not Cliff. Unless of course I have reason to believe you have a fake ID.

But if by 'logically invalidate' you mean 'fail to show to be true', that doesn't necessarily render the statement false. Just unproven.

azzazza, I think what you're getting at is the fact that logic and mathematics are founded ultimately upon premises that are taken as true a priori, but are not proven, and perhaps not provable. But somehow taking them as true just kind of works.

Truth may just be a just-so story, something that just can't be logically reduced down to anything simpler. It is, after all, the most basic fabric of logic itself.
 
Logical invalidity is a property of an argument which has a conclusion that is not deducible from the premisses. I took azzazza to be using it as a synonym for self-contradiction, but I may well have been mistaken.
 
Logical invalidity is a property of an argument which has a conclusion that is not deducible from the premisses. I took azzazza to be using it as a synonym for self-contradiction, but I may well have been mistaken.

So a non sequitur, basically? Such as 'They're Arabs too, so they must have weapons of mass destruction.'?
 
Yeah, it's a non-sequitur. With the example you gave, the jump from "They are Arabs" to "they have weapons of mass destruction" is an invalid argument. However, if you add the premiss "All Arabs have weapons of mass destruction", you end up with a valid argument. If you have that premiss, and the second one "they are Arabs", the conclusion "they have weapons of mass destruction" is the correct one to draw. However, the first premiss is obviously false, so it's a valid argument, but not a sound one.
 
well, in formal logic, a proposition that is true =1, a proposition that is untrue =0, and the logical operators perfom operation upon these.

lets take the statement now "the only truth is that there is no truth"
this is logically entirely meaningless. not true or untrue; meaningless.
why?
in terms of logic, it blows itself up. its premisse states there are no 1's. the fact that there are no 1's is a 1. no conclusion is possible from these premisses. purely logically, the premisses just keep flowing into each other, like in the Russell paradox.

now you can say, well this is just nonsense. it has no purpose. yet it does show us something. it does not name it, it points us to something. namely: the human being transcends logic. we don't get 'stuck' in the infinite loop of the paradox. we are able to transcend it and view it as a completed infinity (which is a very paradoxal statement). it points to something beyond the logic (and by extension all language). it points towards this vantage point we assume, yet we cannot 'see' what that point exactly is. this vantage point is clearly a 'truth', its there, we assume it when encountering such paradoxes. yet it cannot be accessed through logic, as it only shows itself to us 'beyond' the paradox this language. yet, we cannot take the vantage point of that vantage point; which would be the archimedean point (the viewpoint that is all viewpoints). we cannot transcend this transcendening itself, as it continuously escapes us when we do; it always throws us back unto ourselves. it becomes an infinity again, yet we can again take that as a completed infinity, but then the movement starts over. its an infinite 'calling' that calls through paradoxes of paradoxes forming paradoxes. an ungrabbable Nothing, or something continously and radically Other to ourselves. its completely unnameable, because it self-contradicts any name given to it, which only manages to grasp one (incomplete) side of the movement. it is this 'process' that bleedingheartcommie in his statement was pointing at. at a more defined abstract level, it is what the definition of phenomenological truth i gave here calls 'truthing'. it is the movement of rising and falling, growing and dieing. it is also the subject taking itself as a subject, and not as an object (which i have already talked about a two times in other threads here).

it is the way in which truth shows itself (yet at the same time hides itself as 'other' or 'more' then that. for scientific theory, this is the paradigm showing, yet at the same time hiding its 'more' because of that given paradigm. same goes for any form of language).
 
^except that one? If no truth evades change, the truth value of the statement "no truth evades change" will also change.

words can be deduced to logical formulas, but the translation has it's flaws. The message is what is important.... not focusing on the language :\ IMHO
 
words can be deduced to logical formulas

reduced? If so, then no. If it wasn't a typo, I don't think that I understand what you said.

ebola
 
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