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Tripping and Body Temperature Issues? Frostbite?

7

777xog

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
129
Location
Florida
Just had a question in my mind that I'm hoping you all can clear up...

On one of my recent occasions tripping with some friends, one of my friends was having a pretty heavy experience and mentioned feeling pretty cold. I felt of his hand and foot, and his skin did indeed feel oddly cold. It wasn't a huge concern as I assured him body temperature fluctuations are common, but it did make me wonder... Have there ever been any cases of frostbite or similar issues occurring from psychedelics? (I mainly care about the phenethylamines and tryptamines).

(For the record, he was on 75mg 2C-C)
 
i don't believe there have been any specific instances of flesh necrosis due to cold whilst on psychedelics, but it is known that many of the 5HT2A agonist drugs have broad-spectrum effects on other serotonin receptors (sero = blood, tonin = tightening) such as those responsible for vasoconstriction.

the vasoconstrictive effects of various psychedelic drugs definitely can vary from person to person, and also can be masked by the consumption of cannabis or alcohol (both vasodilators)

IIRC bromo-dragonfly's lethality is due to the vasocontrictive effects, simply closing off blood vessels all over the body.

there are some reports of DOx causing painful joints, and mushrooms have been known to cause strange blood effects as well.

since you're in florida though, i doubt your friend was in any real danger of frostbite specifically :)

EDIT: for usefulness, i would say that next time any of your friends notices such an extreme feeling of cold in the extremities, encourage them to take a warm shower or otherwise heat up their body (dancing, lovemaking, rolling on the floor laughing, etc) as i can't imagine how terrible a cold trip could become!
 
Massive DOX overdose as well as bromo-dragonfly have caused loss of limb from severe vasoconstriction in some people. What your friend had was more like Raynaud's phenomenon. Poor blood circulation from too high doses of DOX might possibly also lead to weakness to chilblains, the same things probably all hold true for a number of stimulants such as a number of methcathinones. I don't think the term frostbite applies unless you are literally freezing your nips off, though of course there are similarities. The term gangrene wouldn't apply either I think unless your own necrosis causes you sepsis from rotting.

Here is some more info about dangerous vasoconstriction from psychedelic amphetamines:

10X to 20X overdose with bromo-dragonfly can cause extreme vasoconstriction. This has happened because a dealer confused bromo-dragonfly with 2CB [sic] which has a much higher dose.

Treatment:
The patient should be placed in hyperbaric oxygen at 1.5 to 5.0 atmospheres to maintain oxygenation in extremities. Color should be checked visually every 10 minutes. Oxygen pressure should be raised until blue or dark color disappears and maintained. Patient may need to remain in hyperbaric chamber until the drug has metabolized. Patient should be removed at 3-6 hour intervals for vital signs check and to maintain hydration.

Pressure should be slowly titrated down, checking every half hour for return of evidence of poor oxygenation. Raise pressure to re-establish oxygenation in tissues.

If patient is incapable of cooperating with verbal commands, it may be necessary to surgically puncture the ear drum in order to allow equalization of pressure. This should be done under local applied directly to the ear drum. Preferably, a qualified ENT physician should supervise, but since time is somewhat critical and the patient will lose fingers and toes permanently, other personnel should perform the procedure as needed.

When placed in hyperbaric oxygen, patient may become more coherent. If it occurs, this effect should dissipate shortly after removal. If the patient becomes coherent, they can have a water supply in a tub of water with a straw placed in the chamber with them at the next vital signs and hydration check along with a bedpan.

If hyperbaric oxygen is impossible, a full oxygen mask should be placed on the patient. The aim should be to provide 100% oxygen atmosphere to the patient. A cannula will not be sufficient. A full hood, mask or tent is required and will probably not be fully effective.

Providing soothing music is highly recommended. If required, the patient may be placed in restraints with great care taken to ensure visibility of extremities and non-interference with circulation.
Click to expand...

^ Above, I think 2C-B should be corrected to 2C-B-Fly

LSD causes vasoconstriction but extreme doses don't even seem to make this go to dangerous extents. The NBOMe series could though. Let's hope we won't see a massive overdose with those. I don't think there are tryptamines that have dangerous vasoconstricting qualities.

On another note: temperature regulation and temperature sensation are other body functions at least partially related to serotonin. Hyperthermia from MDMA for instance, does apparently not follow from direct overheating but from passive overheating, i.e. your body does not register that it may get too hot from dancing or ambient temperature and does not cool down enough by sweating. This seems to be a serotonin thing. MDMA is a releaser of serotonin and does a number of funky other things, but apparently agonists can do weird things as well as shown by a very recent 25C-NBOMe (NBOMe-2C-C) trip report on Erowid. This person was overheating on a significant dose of this compound even though he was gushing with sweat.
I think tryptamines can do similar things under certain circumstances and this is not particular to phenethylamines.

If regulation is a part of it, it is not strange to think that sensation is also closely related to serotonin. One of my best friends freaked out one time on 2C-I because he lost the ability to feel hot or cold, his temp sensation was all over the place and at one point he jumped under the shower and feebly attempted to find his bearing with the hot and cold knobs.
 
Last edited:
Ok, thanks for the helpful posts :)

I guess "frostbite" wasn't the right word haha, but I knew about the issues related to the amphetamine psychedelics.

So basically,
vasoconstriction -> less blood flow -> lower body temp in certain areas?

I used to confuse anxiety and panic attacks with vasoconstriction, so I did a bit of research on it awhile ago. Knowing the difference eases my mind. Also nice to know that the degree of vasoconstriction generally isn't problematic with trypts/phens.

I may very well be exaggerating the extent of temperature loss he experienced. I definitely did NOT notice any discoloration like in these pictures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raynaud's_phenomenon

I do wish I had thought of the warm shower idea at the time though. That's always helped me in difficult times. He had a good trip all in all, but I felt bad for completely flooring him after telling him it was a "beginner's psychedelic". He was glued to the couch most of the time. Part of it was that I thought the 2C-C had degraded to about 2/3rds potency (based on experiments at lower doses). Also I assumed his tolerance would be about the same as the rest of our friends with similar weights.

He was amazed that I was walking around, talking with a smile on my face after taking 100mg (25mg more than him). It was certainly visual for me, but not *too* overwhelming. Not much bodyload/temperature issues of my own.
 
also remember that the 2c-x series all seem to have a particular bodyload that takes some getting used to in order to harness it correctly. my first runs with 2c-e were painfully nauseating, until i learned to un-knot my core and let the energy flow out to my fingertips. even sitting in the wrong position is enough to make a limb lose bloodflow or pinch a nerve, so hot showers and slow dancing or yoga are wonderful for discovering points of interest inside the body.
 
Oh yes, un-knotting your core can be kind of hard at first but it is essential to body loads or relieving them.

Vasoconstriction does not necessarily have to make you think about loss of temperature. The loss of temperature is secondary from the loss in blood flow which is primary. The blood provides nutrients and evacuates waste, with severely limited blood flow tissue can deteriorate severely or even die.
 
Hmm, got any tips or links to info about this "un-knotting the core" concept?
(I'm guessing it has something to do with visualizing chakras?)
 
yeah basically you can't go wrong reading about chakras. the main idea is deep breaths and concentration on lengthening/loosening the spine from your hair to your toes. humming a nice loud OUM always helps. it should also be obvious that mutual backrubs = win!

i would caution against heavy stretching while under the influence, as you might accidentally push your body beyond a limit that you are unable to feel correctly because your perceptions are twisted. "wow i didn't know i could touch my nose to my knee" could end up snapping a tendon if you're not properly warmed up first...
 
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