Translating thoughts into words - Non Linguistic Thoughts

[caseface99]

I am a very quiet person by nature, and only recently since getting sober have I been exploring why through meditation. I've come to the realization that a LARGE majority of my thoughts are entirely non-linguistic. There is no translation that I can put into words for a lot of it - It's just a knowing, an awareness, a feeling perhaps - but absolutely no string of words involved. Nothing I can verbalize or write down. It only ever bothers me when I'm trying to have conversations with people I don't know well, because half the time they say something and I have no linguistic response. I know how what they said made me feel but but there is no words that come to mind in response.

Not just in conversations by the way, that's just the only time it's annoying. Otherwise, all the time I am going through my day with the majority of thoughts I have going through my mind in the most pure, un translatable non linguistic manner I can't even describe it properly... Does anyone else experience this type of thought or have any sort of explanation for me? Can't find much via google on the topic of non linguistic thinking..


I have trouble trying to recall how I thought before using drugs. I used from when I was 16-21. Been sober the last few months, almost 22 now. A LOT of cannabis, psychedelics, and opiates. I'm thinking the psychs, maybe cannabis, could have something to do with it.. It's not like I'm not capable of understanding something - I just don't think about much of what I understand in a linguistic manner... I doubt if that makes sense to most but I'd like to discuss this if anyone has any input on the topic.. 8(

 

[Maya]

Hmmm this is quite unique. I have never experienced this but maybe you could start with writing or drawing symbols perhaps or just a picture?

 

[peterjones]

Linguistics requires categorizations and categorizations require procedures.

Why does language require categorization? Well, the word "cat" stands in for the thing that is a cat, not a dog or a horse. A categorization is required.

Why does categorization require procedures? Categorization is an automatic function of the human mind/brain, but in order to do it, a procedure needs to occur. The procedure is the thing that mechanizes the categorization which gets you language.

[Cool thing about meditation is that you can, with training, tap into the procedures that mechanize categorization to alter or engineer them to categorize the world differently.]


There are three types of knowledge:
1) Propositional knowledge (linguistics). For example, the following proposition "I am a boy" is true.
2) Perspectival knowledge. Dan Siegel coined a term called "mindsight", it refers to seeing into the perspective of someone else. For example, if Sam is crying, we can get the perspective that Sam is sad or hurt.
3) Procedural knowledge. This is what you are referring to. Let me demonstrate with a question: How do you move your arm up and down? The question cannot be sufficiently answered with (1) or (2). Yet, you know-how to do it (as opposed to knowing-that something is true). Meditation is basically purely procedural. Hence, you can't really show someone how to meditate, and you struggle to explain in words because procedures can't be demonstrated with propositions.

Hope that helps.

 

[caseface99]

^^ That last post actually did help. Thank you.

Still doesn't help with the verbalizing of what I think/feel at times - but gives me a new perspective on it.

 

[exists]

Still doesn't help with the verbalizing of what I think/feel at times - but gives me a new perspective on it.

I have struggled my entire life (I'm now 36) with expressing my thoughts as words. I have always been more visual/conceptual than verbal. During my childhood I would always get that, "children are to be seen and not heard" nonsense, and it screwed me up royally (but probably also helped me to develop my artistic and technical skills). It has only been within the last few years that I have started making any real progress; change can happen at any time.

My suggestion to you is to start reading more books if you aren't already (stories are fun), and to start thinking more in verbal terms than you have in the past. Having imaginary conversations in your head is a useful tool.

Good luck!

 

[L2R]

i know how you feel, and can relate. it is either a matter of a lack of confidence and trust in one's own vocabulary, or overstimulation. with the former, all it takes is a leap of faith. you'll be amazed at what you find coming out of your mouth with little to no effort on your part. with the latter, a little system of prioritisation is needed. i, personally, use this simple formula: if the import of one idea is clearly greater than another, then it comes first. if the difference between two ideas is not so clear, pick one arbitrarily and quickly, because it makes not enough difference to be a real bother which.

practise, and make these habitual, and you'll be fine.


once you are talking more, if you make an grammatical error, it really doesn't matter. just paraphrase.

 

[caseface99]

Thanks guys.

It's been on my mind lately because the girl I've been seeing recently likes to ask what I'm thinking quite frequently. So I either make up something, say something sweet, or say "I don't know". Either way, unless I say something sweet enough to distract her from the original question she always thinks I'm avoiding telling her what I'm thinking.

I think I've made progress with her understanding of how my mind works though. This morning we were laying in bed talking after just having woken up and she said I'm a complicated yet intriguing guy. (said it in a good way) I asked why, and she was like "You can think with feelings instead of words - need I say more?" (When we hadn't even talked about the way I think in a few days")

So at least she believes me and doesn't think I'm crazy like some other people have haha.


Either way, thanks for the input guys. I'm not too overly concerned about it. Was just wondering if anyone else experiences this or had heard of it. It doesn't hinder my ability to do anything, I actually think it gives me a leg up in some ways.

 

[Venrak]

I experience something similar' it is as if I can feel the relational dynamics of concepts in my mind, seize the meaning of a thousand words in one mental freezeframe. Now try to explain that before it all falls apart on you.

At least that's part of it for me. Unfortunately the thing I am trying to explain is interfering with the explanation

 

[ne1]

I have my own word for it, "Imberracle".
I also use it to try to explain the conscious struggle in negotiating the pursuit of individual happiness in an opinion dominated culture.
Funny thing is I am trying to compose a piece on this but I can't find the words that will explain it coherently.

 

[phantomcosmonaut]

I'm the same way. I frequently mention this to people and they think its strange, and I've never found anyone who thinks similarly. I feel as though it may have something to do with my use of psychedelics. Also I think it is the reason I use my hands so much when I speak. When I speak I seem to stumble over my words often; I have an idea, then think about how to say it, this creates multiple ways of saying it in my mind, then I speak and accidentally mix up two words which should've just been interchangeable -- things like that.

 

[caseface99]

It would make sense to me that this is something caused by using psychedelics.

I don't specifically remember ever noticing this before I ever used psychs, so if the psychs didn't cause it, they at least made me aware of it.

 

[-=SS=-]

Firstly I think you're over-thinking the action of psychedelics upon your thinking process.. I think it's you just weren't aware that you thought in this way and psychedelics made you focus on it during those experiences (thus making you aware of how you think). Second, I think non-linguistic thinking is the real way of thinking.. I find it annoying now that most of my thinking now takes place with language inside my head.. when I was younger I always thought without words and I really struggled to verbalize my internal state.

I think non-linguistic thinking is the real way of thinking because despite us using the same words we often get confused between each other, yet we may be thinking the same thing inside.. and after using dialogue we eventually come to see that we were referring to the same internal thought/state/mood/realization etc.

Language is the best tool we have, but it fails in many ways. When it comes to spiritual realizations they always say words can not express it, that you either have to go there yourself or bring your head into the same space as another person who's in that state. That also suggests that non-linguistic thinking is primary and language is secondary.

 

[Galaxies]

Finally someone who I can relate to... Everyday I have thoughts in My mind and I feel I'm
The only one who can understand them. Unfortunatly some of my friends are very closed minded and when I talk to them there getting a differnt message than what I really mean, and we end up in arguments.

I think in a way we feel that we're right about everything and we have all these opinions and we truly think there right, atleast In our minds. When I think it's hard to put words on what goes on in my head. I have these weird attributes I'd like call them where I literally look at things In someone else's perspective. I try to correspond their past with a situation they'd be encountering. While I do this I almost feel as if I'm that actual person

 

[Ambigram]

Language speaks to people beautifully through metaphors...

Hi all,

I just wanted to put in my 2 cents. Bill Harris, founder the Centerpointe Research Institute has some really great info on this topic. He talks of language being intrinsically dualistic; right does not exist with out left, up doesn't exist without down.. etc. When in deep thought about various aspects of our existence such as "What is reality?", "Is there a god?", all questions that cannot be explained with language directly. However these thoughts CAN be explained using language through the clever use of metaphors... for instance, explaining [your] reality may be explained as the backdrop of your life, or the stage upon which your life will be performed. [You] the observer of this "play" are also the main character [living] out the story of your life..

@Galaxies - your comment about looking at things through somebody's perspective that is not your own is very observant. It some eastern religions this is sometimes thought of as the "third party observer" or basically stepping outside one's self and watching the "play" as an outside observer. The practice of living ever-more as the observer of your life and less of the participant, eases suffering caused by attachment. Super interesting stuff...

I hope this may be a starting point to find the information you seek.. Also, check out Big Mind, Big Heart - Genpo Roshi and Bill Harris - Anything put out by these two gentleman is pure gold..

Let me know your thoughts,

Thanks

 

[Noodle]

 

[nover11]

I know this is a year later, but i hope you receive this. I completely understand what you are saying. It's a matter of feeling in my head and heart. I can't express verbally, it is only a visual process. I can visualize what i'm thinking and i have to figure out how to translate what I'm seeing into a verbal form. It's so frustrating! I've experienced this my entire life, but it's become more of an issue because of work. I have a hard time trying to explain what I'm working on. I can only show them. It's kind of funny i have someone translate what I'm saying to others because they get it but others don't understand me.

 

[Xorkoth]

I am a very quiet person by nature, and only recently since getting sober have I been exploring why through meditation. I've come to the realization that a LARGE majority of my thoughts are entirely non-linguistic. There is no translation that I can put into words for a lot of it - It's just a knowing, an awareness, a feeling perhaps - but absolutely no string of words involved. Nothing I can verbalize or write down. It only ever bothers me when I'm trying to have conversations with people I don't know well, because half the time they say something and I have no linguistic response. I know how what they said made me feel but but there is no words that come to mind in response.

Not just in conversations by the way, that's just the only time it's annoying. Otherwise, all the time I am going through my day with the majority of thoughts I have going through my mind in the most pure, un translatable non linguistic manner I can't even describe it properly... Does anyone else experience this type of thought or have any sort of explanation for me? Can't find much via google on the topic of non linguistic thinking..


I have trouble trying to recall how I thought before using drugs. I used from when I was 16-21. Been sober the last few months, almost 22 now. A LOT of cannabis, psychedelics, and opiates. I'm thinking the psychs, maybe cannabis, could have something to do with it.. It's not like I'm not capable of understanding something - I just don't think about much of what I understand in a linguistic manner... I doubt if that makes sense to most but I'd like to discuss this if anyone has any input on the topic.. 8(

This is how my brain works too, even moreso since I got into psychedelics but it's always been this way. I think in concepts, which are sort of life sensory packages as I put it... sometimes there are words in there, but mostly it's something beyond words, a general idea that I can think and put words to if I choose but in its raw form that's not what it is. It used to drive my ex nuts because she's a very word-oriented person and I would always use different words to describe something every time... she interpreted this as me being ungenuine because she has a very specific meaning to each word, whereas for me, a word is just a tool used to try to describe something that hasn't been assigned specific words to me.

It's not that I never think in words... I do if I am working out a scenario in my head involving communication. But mostly I am not thinking words until I try to communicate what I'm thinking.

 

[herbavore]

I rarely am aware of myself thinking in words. I've always thought it was just part of being a visual person/visual artist. The irony is that I love words more. A good poem grabs me even more than a good painting.