Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion

[JessFR]

There is emerging academic evidence (and a lot of anecdotal evidence) that in young girls rep-defining oneself as transgender or queer occurs through a process of social contagion. It spreads from peer to peer through social networks and at that age level and in the education system that positively embraces gender re-identification there is relatively little stigma and possibly a fair amount of cred or status when for the individual when it happens. Interestingly only seems to happen in Western countries.

Even taking that at face value. A big if IMO. It's in no way a mutually exclusive proposition that there might be both social transgender people as you describe, and also genetic/innate transgender people as well. The former piggybacking on a movement started by the latter.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Even taking that at face value. A big if IMO. It's in no way a mutually exclusive proposition that there might be both social transgender people as you describe, and also genetic/innate transgender people as well. The former piggybacking on a movement started by the latter.

Totally agree

 

[JessFR]

I suppose you haven't heard about transgender people giving birth, the exact number of transgender people carrying pregnancies is not known - but there was a research study conducted at the University of Rutger in 2019 that released a statement claiming 30% of transgender men have unplanned pregnancies.

That's right, transgender men. While transgender women are able to give birth with a transplanted uterus donated to them from living or deceased donors. Transplanted uterus.

Today, people of all genders get pregnant and give birth all over the world. Keep up with the times, gender-neutral language is a thing, you can plan your baby’s gender before birth both physically and mentally, boys can like pink and girls can play with action figures. Wake up.

I don't know about the rest of this, but I am absolutely positive those supplements are nothing but a scam.

Your body heavily regulates your blood pH, taking pills isn't gonna change it. By extension it won't change pH in the sex organs either. That's just the ground floor problems. There's a lot that's highly dubious beyond that too.

You can choose your child's sex with IVF though. A practice I'm sure nobody here familiar with my politics will be surprised to learn that I oppose.

 

[w01fg4ng]

After I came out as bisexual to one of my friends in grade school she came out to me as being born intersex.

I didn't ask her the details (like if she had surgery at birth) but I do know that her gender was chosen for her at birth.

I'm hoping she turned out ok.

 

[JessFR]

After I came out as bisexual to one of my friends in grade school she came out to me as being born intersex.

I didn't ask her the details (like if she had surgery at birth) but I do know that her gender was chosen for her at birth.

I'm hoping she turned out ok.

It used to be not uncommon if a male baby was born with malformed genitals that they'd surgically reassign them female and just bring them up as a girl.

I think they mostly stopped after a lot of the people who had that happened to them eventually killed themselves.

Real sad, I can see the reasoning, at the time they just assumed gender was mostly a social thing. Which was probably a pretty reasonable belief with what was known at the time.

Don't quote me on this though I read about this year's ago so it might be wrong or inaccurate.

 

[w01fg4ng]

Yeah, I was thinking "source please" until I read the last line.

 

[JessFR]

Yeah, I was thinking "source please" until I read the last line.

I'm pretty sure it's true. By all means Google it.

All I'm saying is I read it years ago and I haven't Googled to confirm my recollection or that what I read at the time was accurate.

But I'm pretty sure if you Google you'll find that it's at least partly accurate.

 

[w01fg4ng]

I didn't come out to her directly, it was a friend who was also friends with her.

I know, he said, she said. But, I still think about her. In a way that's like, I hope I'm not dead-naming her.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

There is emerging academic evidence (and a lot of anecdotal evidence) that in young girls rep-defining oneself as transgender or queer occurs through a process of social contagion. It spreads from peer to peer through social networks and at that age level and in the education system that positively embraces gender re-identification there is relatively little stigma and possibly a fair amount of cred or status when for the individual when it happens. Interestingly only seems to happen in Western countries.

have most definitely observed this among undergraduates in uk

 

[JessFR]

I don't get it. Why would people wanna identify as trans if they're not?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying I don't understand it.

It's like those people who are into rap and like to identify themselves as having had a shitty upbringing in a poor neighborhood when they actually had a very comfortable middle class upbringing.

Why would you WANT to have had a shitty upbringing? A lot of us got one with no choice at all and it wasn't fucking fun.

 

[w01fg4ng]

F the world cause starbucks

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

I have an opinion I want to express and my apologies beforehand if I offend anyone, that’s my least intentions, but for me homosexuality both men and women and transsexuality and transgenders is a mental illness that should be tried to be cured or treated.

What are peoples opinions on this? Please no flaming no pun intended, just respectful discussion.

I’m curious to hear people’s thoughts on this.

 

[JessFR]

I have an opinion I want to express and my apologies beforehand if I offend anyone, that’s my least intentions, but for me homosexuality both men and women and transsexuality and transgenders is a mental illness that should be tried to be cured or treated.

What are peoples opinions on this? Please no flaming no pun intended, just respectful discussion.

I’m curious to hear people’s thoughts on this.

Id be careful how you word this stuff. (I can see that you're trying to be but I'm gonna mention it anyway).

Discussing it probably isn't in itself against the rules. But it's real easy to stray over the line.

The specific rule is that you may not "post or upload any content that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason"

I know that's something of a fine line open to interpretation. My recommendation is to try and make it clear that these are just your opinions, and to try and phrase it in a way that doesn't seem beyond the level of hostility necessary to make your argument.

So for instance, saying you believe homosexuality is a sin and that your belief is that sinners will burn in hell is probably OK. Saying that gays are disgusting sodomites probably isn't because it goes beyond what's needed to make your argument and is seemingly intentionally hurtful in a way not needed to make the argument.

I'm pro life and I believe that abortion is immoral. I believe that having an abortion is terminating a life with a right to continued existence. That's the acceptable way to phrase that opinion. But hypothetically if I were to say that I everyone who has an abortion is an evil murdering monster. That would probably not be OK. It's not necessary to make my argument and it's needlessly hurtful.

With that disclaimer out of the way, and keeping in mind I don't directly mod ceps so this is largely just a suggestion born from experience.

I think that people can't help being gay or transgender. I dunno to what degree they're born that way, but I believe that for most of them it's out of their control.

I believe adults have a right to engage in relationships with any other consenting adult. And that such relationships aren't anyone else's business. Nor do I believe there is anything immoral or wrong about it.

I believe gays have a right to get married. And that their relationships should be celebrated as an expression of love just like straight couples are.

And I believe that it's common courtesy and respect to use the pronouns transgender people respectfully request that we use. I believe that people have a right to be treated respectfully provided they've done nothing to disrespect you. And I don't believe bring transgender or gay disrespects anyone.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I have an opinion I want to express and my apologies beforehand if I offend anyone, that’s my least intentions, but for me homosexuality both men and women and transsexuality and transgenders is a mental illness that should be tried to be cured or treated.

What are peoples opinions on this? Please no flaming no pun intended, just respectful discussion.

I’m curious to hear people’s thoughts on this.

I think that is a view held by many people in many countries so you are not really expressing something radical. However, it is important to understand that what is and is not defined as a mental illness is essential a ‘social construct’ as people say. Definitions continually change and evolve as to what is and is not aberrant.

A great deal of human behaviour follows a normal distribution. This means that the vast majority of people are clumped together in the middle as essential average or close to it. Then an increasingly small number of people diverge to greater degrees to one side or another. So behaviour is a spectrum and it just so happens that socially we treat that big clump of basically-all-the-same in the middle as normal. Then psychiatry comes in and makes an arbitrary cut off somewhere along each side and says behaviour on one side of the line is ‘normal’ and on the other ‘abnormal’. That decision about where to place the line is sometimes arbitrary, influenced by morals and politics and a host of other reasons besides ‘science’.

The question would be what purpose would it serve to attempt to treat or cure homosexuality and who gets to decide just where the line is between acceptable sexual behaviour and ‘abnormal’ sexual behaviour?

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

I think that is a view held by many people in many countries so you are not really expressing something radical. However, it is important to understand that what is and is not defined as a mental illness is essential a ‘social construct’ as people say. Definitions continually change and evolve as to what is and is not aberrant.

A great deal of human behaviour follows a normal distribution. This means that the vast majority of people are clumped together in the middle as essential average or close to it. Then an increasingly small number of people diverge to greater degrees to one side or another. So behaviour is a spectrum and it just so happens that socially we treat that big clump of basically-all-the-same in the middle as normal. Then psychiatry comes in and makes an arbitrary cut off somewhere along each side and says behaviour on one side of the line is ‘normal’ and on the other ‘abnormal’. That decision about where to place the line is sometimes arbitrary, influenced by morals and politics and a host of other reasons besides ‘science’.

The question would be what purpose would it serve to attempt to treat or cure homosexuality and who gets to decide just where the line is between acceptable sexual behaviour and ‘abnormal’ sexual behaviour?

You said you were abused by a pedo as a kid was that normal sexual behavior?

 

[JessFR]

You said you were abused by a pedo as a kid was that normal sexual behavior?

It hardly matters. It is abusing a child who isn't and can't consent. That's completely different to having an adult homosexual relationship with another adult homosexual.

Frankly, I've known a lot of awesome gay people.

It's people who call it wrong and mental illness that's I think are deplorable. They're the ones I think are harmful to themselves and wider society.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You said you were abused by a pedo as a kid was that normal sexual behavior?

Ok. Here is where we need to be careful. Conflating paedophilia and homosexuality is a dead end and likely a good reason to delete a thread.

But even paedophilia is to some extent socially constructed given that the age of consent varies around the world. In Australia 100 years ago a girl could be married at 12 to a man of any age. It was not particularly prevalent but it was not outside the bounds of acceptable behaviour.

 

[JessFR]

Ok. Here is where we need to be careful. Conflating paedophilia and homosexuality is a dead end and likely a good reason to delete a thread.

But even paedophilia is to some extent socially constructed given that the age of consent varies around the world. In Australia 100 years ago a girl could be married at 12 to a man of any age. It was not particularly prevalent but it was not outside the bounds of acceptable behaviour.

The problem is sexual relationships with children are nearly always profoundly harmful to them.

That's why it is and should be illegal. That it isn't in some places and times only shows how abuse can be institutionalized.

But I agree. Conflating pedophilia with homosexuality and or transgenderism has resulted in infractions before and may well again if continued.

We have lots of gay bluelighters. Insinuating they're pedophiles is obviously going to be offensive and usually won't pass an argument of "necessary to make a point".

Soo, I'm just suggesting to be cautious going down that path.

 

[w01fg4ng]

.Conflating paedophilia and homosexuality is a dead end and likely a good reason to delete a thread.

Flashback to mr. spacey

 

[JessFR]

Flashback to mr. spacey

I was thinking Grimez. He repeatedly conflated transgender people with pedophiles in spite of repeatedly being told to stop and was iirc eventually infracted for it.