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Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion

mal3volent said:
You really take your cis straight male privilege for granted , don't you? Just trot through life grinning and chuckling at those who didn't win the genetic lottery?
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I don't now how to respond to the first part.

As for the "genetic lottery" part: let's be clear that I'm not referring to anybody who, for whatever genetic reason, was born with both sex organs. That doesn't apply to the two individuals mentioned.
 
dalpat077 said:
I don't now how to respond to the first part.

As for the "genetic lottery" part: let's be clear that I'm not referring to anybody who, for whatever genetic reason, was born with both sex organs. That doesn't apply to the two individuals mentioned.
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You're assuming that transexuality has no genetic basis. To my knowledge this is currently unknown.

That BOTH the wachowskis came out as trans is certainly suspicious though.

It's all bullshit though. It's no different than justifying discrimination against gays by calling it a lifestyle choice.

And I'm not convinced at all by the arguments of "oh but they like being trans because it's so trendy now watch as I treat them like shit to show how great being trans must be".

Genetic or not, you're gonna have a real hard time convincing me that people truly choose to be subject to the kinda shit people say in this thread on purpose.
 
JessFR said:
...you're gonna have a real hard time convincing me that people truly choose to be subject to the kinda shit people say in this thread on purpose.
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Same argument I made re: Trump and his patriotism. That didn't work out too well now did it.

JessFR said:
Gotta love hoe Elliot Page actually said that both "him" and "they" are fine, presumably assuming that some people would have trouble with "him".
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You may want to edit a particular word in the above line in your original post by the way...

And with that: I shall exit gracefully from this thread. This is not a "discussion" as per the title. It's only a "discussion" if you tow any or all of the LGBTTTQQIAA lines as is blatantly obvious.

Don't get me wrong: I don't give up. But these ain't my forums now are they. I learn quick!

Let the record show though: at no point was I derogatory or inflammatory or combative or outright rude. Feel free to delete my posts on this thread (you know to whom I'm referring) and carry on the way you were.
 
Oh please. Nobody's censoring you. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean "these forums are against me!"

And you may not have been directly rude to us, but I'd say deliberately misgendering someone for a joke is pretty rude yeah.

I see it all the time, people going "there are people here arguing that I'm wrong, this forum is clearly uninterested in discussion". Somehow maintaining a straight face while saying it.
 
JessFR said:
Oh please. Nobody's censoring you. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean "these forums are against me!"

And you may not have been directly rude to us, but I'd say deliberately misgendering someone for a joke is pretty rude yeah.
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That's OK. I'm self-isolating err... self-censoring. Trust me: it's the lesser of two evils. And BY FAR too.

See what I did there?

What's the bet had I typed "Bruce/Caitlyn" instead or "Bruce err... Caitlyn" there wouldn't have been an issue?

I don't think I'm the one with the problem.

This is all right up there with the PC or "Politically Correct" fraternity. Next thing we know: Bill Burr's shows will be being boycotted or banned!

There's a message in the above. Same as on the political threads.
 
Whats with the persecution complex, dalpat? You seem a bit down since the Supreme Court and the electoral college rejected Trump's last ditch efforts to form an autocracy in our country.

why not stay and participate in the thread?
 
I get this feeling like some people think they have to fight against anything transgender related because they feel like if they don't they will somehow become obligated to agree in future with anything else ever proposed in the name of transgender rights etc.

Which is of course complete crap. For instance I'm not about to start asking every person I meet what gender they identify as, neither am I gonna support adding third gender bathrooms everywhere or similar such excessive asks.

But respecting someone's pronoun preferences? Come on that's such a small ask.
 
mal3volent said:
You seem a bit down since the Supreme Court and the electoral college rejected Trump's last ditch efforts to form an autocracy in our country.
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Wow. You're an evil person. Talk about hitting below the belt and where it hurts most! 🤣

Let the record show that THE ABOVE IS A JOKE! 🤣
 
Alright.

Being the man that I am I shall concede (see the irony there) that I could have/should have been more sensitive in my posts and I apologize. Happy now? ❤️

Come to think of it though (in true deflection style) you can blame your PRESIDENT Trump for this today i.e. he's not causing enough ructions at the moment in order to keep the political threads going (thus leaving me with way too much time on my hands).

And anyway and after careful thought:

I've no business being here anyway. To coin a phrase used by Rep. Barney Frank: "NIMBY" i.e. "Not In My Back Yard". This is all "NIMBY" actually (until it's not). And the irony: Barney Frank is not only a DEMOCRAT but is GAY too and to me was one of the finest politicians on the planet! Now there's a total mind fuck coming from me huh! 🤣 (On a side note: some many years ago the lyrics in his songbook were not that far removed from those of Trump's and the Republicans today). :)
 
dalpat077 said:
Alright.

Being the man that I am I shall concede (see the irony there) that I could have/should have been more sensitive in my posts and I apologize. Happy now? ❤️
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Hah, we gotcha! Now that you've capitulated even slightly, you are obligated to go along with every idea us over on the ultra left come up with.

Your souls now belongs to us. :D
 
JessFR said:
Hah, we gotcha! Now that you've capitulated even slightly, you are obligated to go along with every idea us over on the ultra left come up with.

Your souls now belongs to us. :D
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I'm being nice! Don't push it! ❤️
 
birdup.snaildown said:
The pronoun thing is a grammatical nightmare.

From an article I just read, "His comment was questioned by actor Elliot Page, who has recently confirmed they had transitioned."

It should have said they have transitioned I guess, but it still sounds wrong. It reads like it's a reference to multiple people.

I don't understand the they thing.

Elliot page said his (does he want us to say this? or should it be their) pronouns are he/they.

Why they, if he is a he?

Where does they fit into this table:
HE/SHEHIM/HERHIS/HERHIS/HERSHIMSELF/HERSELF
ziezimzirziszieself
siesiehirhirshirself
eyemeireirseirself
vevervisversverself
teytertemtersterself
eemeireirsemself

Who comes up with these?
Are there going to be more?

I don't mean any offense but I think it's a bit much.

It seems like Elliot wants to use a mix of pronouns from different sets.

Can you realistically expect people to use sie / em / ters / zieself for one person and e / ter / vers / eirself for another person?

It's hard enough for me to remember people's names sometimes, let alone their pronouns.
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Mental illness.
Yeah, I rarely remember peoples names. Unless I think they're remember-worthy..
 
I bet if you took a random sample of like a thousand transgender people, the crazier ideas that keep coming up are actually only endorsed by a very small percentage of them.

I have zero evidence for that... Which I admit, but it is heavily setting off my political bullshit alarm.

And I still remember when Facebook autocorrect system got bullshitted into "Facebook has 100whatever gender options!"

Point is there's a lot of very disingenuous arguments in this subject.
 
mal3volent said:
I always assumed "they" was a generic pronoun that could apply to anyone at any time. Like i could say "Elliot is working on a new movie and he is really excited about it." or, "Elliot Page is an actor who has played many roles. One of their first roles was Trinity in Trailer Park Boys."
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The usage here makes sense because "their" is a possessive pronoun and doesn't change the conjugation of "to be". In terms of a more nunaced scenario, what about third person singular versus plural? For instance, "He runs..." versus "They run...", since "they" is plural but is being used in a singular context, would "They runs..." be technically the correct usage using the third person singular verb ending?
 
Deru said:
The usage here makes sense because "their" is a possessive pronoun and doesn't change the conjugation of "to be". In terms of a more nunaced scenario, what about third person singular versus plural? For instance, "He runs..." versus "They run...", since "they" is plural but is being used in a singular context, would "They runs..." be technically the correct usage using the third person singular verb ending?
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Might be my hillbilly schoolin' but I think "they run" would still be acceptable. "I see someone run every morning down my street. They always carry a water bottle and wear a cap."
 
mal3volent said:
Might be my hillbilly schoolin' but I think "they run" would still be acceptable. "I see someone run every morning down my street. They always carry a water bottle and wear a cap."
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Yeah generally I'd think you wouldn't use he or she when describing what they carry because you haven't specified the sex to start with.

Deru can translate that into smart people words, once again my incomplete public school education fails me. :P
 
I was misgendered when I just turned 15 working a less than minimum wage at Mcy-D's.

THat was the 90s though, even then it didn't matter mostly because I'm cis gendered lol
 
JessFR said:
You're assuming that transexuality has no genetic basis. To my knowledge this is currently unknown.

That BOTH the wachowskis came out as trans is certainly suspicious though.

It's all bullshit though. It's no different than justifying discrimination against gays by calling it a lifestyle choice.

And I'm not convinced at all by the arguments of "oh but they like being trans because it's so trendy now watch as I treat them like shit to show how great being trans must be".

Genetic or not, you're gonna have a real hard time convincing me that people truly choose to be subject to the kinda shit people say in this thread on purpose.
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There is emerging academic evidence (and a lot of anecdotal evidence) that in young girls rep-defining oneself as transgender or queer occurs through a process of social contagion. It spreads from peer to peer through social networks and at that age level and in the education system that positively embraces gender re-identification there is relatively little stigma and possibly a fair amount of cred or status when for the individual when it happens. Interestingly only seems to happen in Western countries.
 
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