Tramadol vs. actual narcotics

[superluminality]

Tramadol is unique, and some people are very sensitive to it. For one thing, it can be taken when other opiates can't....such as alongside Buprenorphine (Suboxone/Subutex/BuTrans), or with Low Dose Naltrexone (not to be confused with Ultra Low Dose aka ULDN, which is meant to be taken alongside agonists). Also, some people with staggeringly high opiate tolerances can still feel tramadol quite intensely. There is some degree of cross-tolerance, which can vary widely, but it is usually incomplete.

 

[pofacedhoe]

2000mg was yes, one single dose oral. I have also tried many variations from 300-1500mg single doses. None were spectacular, although, prior to heavy opioid use, I did take a single 1200mg dose that produced a long lasting, hypnotic like effect, though the degree of hypnosis was odd and consisted of fever-like dreams.

When I administer 200mg of pure o-desmethyltramadol intravenously, it had a powerful effect (inducing full narcosis, with little apparent monoaminergic activity). It felt distinctly different from high oral doses of tramadol, felt like meperidine IV, but did not have the same "rush". It actually felt rather pure and MOR-specific, with a definite fentanyl like element, but a little "warmer-bodied". I sound like some sonoma county wine-snob......

yeah the difference was i kept snorting repeated doses throughout an evening, (quite a nice snort i might add). it was amazing at the time, but the next day i felt like shit, and when i was snorting it i could feel a strong adrenaline edge, like speed but less crazy (very like ethcathinone, but the strong opiate edge made it hugely euphoric).

i flushed what was left and i had probably only had 250mg in total during that evening session. i thought it would be like tramadol without the stimulating edge but for me that part was very delayed and uncomfortable

 

[MeDieViL]

The reason why some hate it and others like it is likely because its basicly like 2 drugs in one (mdai or another serotonine releaser and a weak opiate) and its not just a weak opiate.

 

[negrogesic]

The pure tramadol M1 was in my case, never taken intranasally; a few large PO doses produced definite but unremarkable effects. Intravenous doses, especially large ones, produced effects that were subjectively, highly MOR specific. There was some next day "bodyload", but at dosing the effects were profoundly narcotic. It had me nodding uncontrollably with fentanyl/fever-like dreams and confusion upon waking.

More straightforward; the o-desmethyltramadol was a worthwhile and strong opioid, but primarily recreational when administered intravenously.....Its MOR affinity made any NE activity unnoticeable....

 

[fastandbulbous]

presents a very real risk for hypertensive crisis if taken in sufficient dosages and combined with other 5-HT modulating compounds (I have seen fatalities from high dose tramadol and SSRI's, as well as one case involving a modest dose of tramadol combined with a rather typical dose of MDMA).

I thought it was hyperthermia as serotonin interferes with the temp regulation centre in the hypothalamus (from serotonin syndrome)

 

[randomness]

I've been a recreational user of narcotics for a couple of years, especially oxycodone and hydrocodone. I can get fairly high from 15mg and 20mg respectively due to the fact that I haven't really used any stronger medications other than one does of morphine. Oxy is my drug of choice, but I have easier access to vicodin and codeine (though it takes a lot of the latter to fuck me up).

Anyway, my doctor recently prescribed me 50mg tramadol pills for an injury I sustained because she knew that I would abuse vicodin or percocet if I was given either of those. The pills are supposed to be non-narcotic, but when I took just one pill, it hit me like a fucking train. It felt like 40mg of oxycodone. I've taken several more of the pills and gotten similar results.

This doesn't make any sense at all to me, and I wondered if anyone might have an explanation as to why I'm able to get so fucked up on a non-narcotic medication. Not that I'm complaining, of course.

riptaz is right... when you first take Tramadol its very potent even at 50mg it feels like a small dose of morphine. But if you use it regularly the opiate effect soon wears off. Tramadol is unique I think in the way it acts more selectively on a specific opiate receptor in brain.

Tramadol is definitely an opiate class drug.

 

[msFancyPants]

I am not am expert in medico-legal affairs, but I know that in California, the drug is Rx only, and technically speaking, does not legally require a "physical" (in person) consult, and can be obtained easily and legally via the internet. In CA, carisoprodol is also not considered a controlled substance, but I am rather certain than in New York and a number of other states, carisoprodol, is a controlled substance. The problem with the over-prescription of tramadol, an opioid that is not widely controlled, is its dirty interaction witn serotonergic drugs. In my area, most patients (particularly females) are on some SSRI, etc........A handful of tramadol and a handful of zoloft can (and does) result in a nasty, painful and often fatal hypertensive crisis........

A very great post about tramadol, its legality, and danger potential ( especially the part about its interaction with OTHER serotonergic drugs.) I say this because, while tramadol is a weakish-opioid agonist, it also posesses strong effects on serotonin (thus the speedy effects along with the sedating effects all wrapped up in one pill.)

I can vouch for the fact that while tramadol does possess good potential for a buzz, is a great painkiller, and somewhat helpful for withdrawals from full-opioid agonist, it is NOT recommended for those who take SSRI-'s or SNRI's as it can DEFINITELY lower your seizure threshold even more, and cause exacerbated symptoms of serotonin syndrome. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/007272.htm Serotonin syndrome, for those who don't know, is NO JOKE. (This is the same as serotonin toxicity.)

I am a seasoned opiate user (actually addict) who has used opiates ranging from hydros to heroin to fentanyl and recently methadone, but after using small doses of tramadol with an SNRI (generic of Effexor) I was hospitalized with high fever, ataxia, seizures. vomiting, hallucianations, and symptoms of neuroleptic malignancy. I almost died, and this was attributed to the mixture of tramadol and SNRI. Weird. I can take large amounts of heroin but I take 150 mg of tramadol, and I am tweaking and sick like you wouldn't believe!!!

 

[laCster]

I heavily doubt it's potentiated by grapefruit juice as it's a pro-drug which is broken down into the much more potent O-Desmethyltramadol once reaching the liver.

grapefruit juice inhibits the the 3A4 enzymes. tramadol is metabolized into inactive metabolites through the 3A4, but the 2D6 enzymes metabolize tramadol into the potent O-Desmesthyltramadol. thus, GFJ only indirectly affects the amount of tramadol O-desmethylated through the 2D6 enzymes resulting in higher levels of O-Desmethyltramadol within the blood stream

 

[whippa craka]

I personally think tramadol isn't that bad, It is cheaper then other opiates and it feels very similar. It isnt as euphoric, but it is slightly and usually puts me straight out in a nod near bedtime more then 80mg of oxycodone does, and thats just taking 400-500mg of tramadol.

It's kind of like a dirty opiate high, but it is enjoyable. I feel it stays in my system too long however and I do not find the hangover feeling the next day enjoyable, I don't like getting up still feeling it in my system, only feeling drowsy.

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

These are the doses I need to get high off of opiates. I don't know whether or not that means the doses are equivalent to each other in terms of potency, but from my own personal experience these doses are a rough conversion in terms of potency. The intensity of the effects also fluctuates a lot for me, because my weight, diet, and hours of sleep vary so drastically from one month to another. For example, I might need 45mg of hydrocodone to get high without tolerance, but then a month later I'll only need 30mg or even less to get desired effects. Anyways, here are the doses which should help give you an idea regarding tramadol's potency:

30mg Oxycodone (oral)
30-45mg Hydrocodone (oral)
30mg Methadone (oral)
250mg Tramadol

It's also worth noting that the first 4-5 times I used tramadol, I felt NOTHING, and I was taking 200mg. Then, about 4 years later, I gave it another shot and tried 250mg which gave me very decent effects. Ever since then, the intensity of tramadol's effects has been increasing every time I use it. Now, 250mg produces a fairly intense opiate high.

It also seems like I can feel tramadol's serotonergic and noradrenergic activity, as the hypomania induced in the 30 hours following a dose of tramadol is very remniscient of the effects of antidepressants sertraline and venlafaxine (both of which I have been on in the past).

 

[altarazims]

It's kind of like a dirty opiate high, but it is enjoyable. I feel it stays in my system too long however and I do not find the hangover feeling the next day enjoyable, I don't like getting up still feeling it in my system, only feeling drowsy.

Really? That's my favorite part of tramadol, waking up and realizing "I'm still high!" and it seems to influence my dreams positively too. I do hate those nausea headaches though, that I get many hours after noticeable effects go away. But that's the only 'hangover' type symptom I get. I think I'm really lucky to have it work well in 50-100mg produces strong opiate effects. It's my favorite opiate mostly because of duration, and it makes me more social than traditional opiates do.

 

[negrogesic]

These are the doses I need to get high off of opiates. I don't know whether or not that means the doses are equivalent to each other in terms of potency, but from my own personal experience these doses are a rough conversion in terms of potency. The intensity of the effects also fluctuates a lot for me, because my weight, diet, and hours of sleep vary so drastically from one month to another. For example, I might need 45mg of hydrocodone to get high without tolerance, but then a month later I'll only need 30mg or even less to get desired effects. Anyways, here are the doses which should help give you an idea regarding tramadol's potency:

30mg Oxycodone (oral)
30-45mg Hydrocodone (oral)
30mg Methadone (oral)
250mg Tramadol

It's also worth noting that the first 4-5 times I used tramadol, I felt NOTHING, and I was taking 200mg. Then, about 4 years later, I gave it another shot and tried 250mg which gave me very decent effects. Ever since then, the intensity of tramadol's effects has been increasing every time I use it. Now, 250mg produces a fairly intense opiate high.

It also seems like I can feel tramadol's serotonergic and noradrenergic activity, as the hypomania induced in the 30 hours following a dose of tramadol is very remniscient of the effects of antidepressants sertraline and venlafaxine (both of which I have been on in the past).

You are either lucky or opioid naive as 30mg of po methadone is personally far stronger than any po tramadol dose ive ever taken (including single doses exceeding 1 gram, something I cannot condone as a clinician). I think this thread in general has........well.......(not much more to say other than similarly irrelevant subjective reports).......

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

Well, sometimes my body won't give me an opiate high no matter what dose I take; and sometimes I'll accidentally shoot past the effects I was aiming for by taking too large of a dose - and it is these occasions especially where negative effects set in and opiate euphoria disappears.
It's almost as if my body has to be prepared for an opiate session in order to get desired effects, otherwise I only get negatives (hypothermia, shivers, etc).

Also, in reply to your post, keep in mind that I am taking these doses with a week or two in-between uses.
Strangely, one of the best highs I got off tramadol was after I had taken 35mg of methadone three days earlier. I sometimes wonder if tramadol has a mechanism of action different enough from traditional opiates that the cross-tolerance is nearly non-existent.