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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Tramadol and Vicodin

C

cavrdave

Greenlighter
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
6
I have been taking either Vics or Percs for the last year or two. I just had a back surgery and when I talked to my doctor about tapering off he prescribed me 200 mg Tramadol ER. It takes 4 days usually to get through the withdrawals. What I want to know is if I take the Tramadol for four days and stop will I not have to worry about withdrawals? Let me know if there are any questions and I'll be sure to answer.

There were times when I would take suboxone in very low doses when I didn't have any vics and then would go back to the vics when they were available. I had a hermiated disc and just had it corrected three weeks ago and I"m ready to get off the meds. Sometimes the meds were prescribed and other times I just went and bought them. I never was able to control my consumption until post surgery. So the last three weeks I've followed my dosage of 4 5mg vics a day for weeks 2 and 3 and 2 5mg percs every 6 hours for the first few days. But I could definitely feel the withdrawals. I feel like I should just suck it up and stop cold turkey. Thanks all for your help.
 
No, tramadol is still an opioid, so if you take enough tramadol to relieve your withdrawal symptoms for 4 days, then stop, you will just get the withdrawals after you stop the tramadol.

What you would need to do in order to lessen the withdrawals instead of just postponing them, is gradually taper off the tramadol. Although you'd probably still feel some mild to medium withdrawals while tapering and once you stop completely. What did your doctor suggest?
 
I mentioned to the Physician's Assistant that my surgeon had prescribed me 5mg Vicodin the week before(It was 5mg Percocet, 30 pills, then 5mg Vicodin, 40 pills and another 5mg Vicodin, 30 pills after my disectomy) and that I wanted to know about more so I could taper off them. I heard her in the hall tell him what I told and they came in and he prescribed me 200mg Conzip. He always has drug reps in shoving new drugs to prescribe. Of course it wasn't covered so he called in the 200mg ER Tramadol which I believe is similar.
 
IMO, screw the Tramadol entirely. It's unnecessary and a strangely dangerous chemical. I highly recommend just doing a slow taper off the Vicodin. Just tell your doctor the Tramadol didn't agree with you and that you'd like to be put on a taper schedule with the Vicodin. You're comfortable with it, the doctor is obviously comfortable in prescribing it to you, and I'm sure he'd be amenable to it. I think you just tapered a bit too quickly initially.

Short of that, purchase Bali Kratom off the internet. Look up or PM me a recipee for the tea. Drink the tea for a couple weeks, slowly reducing your dose, and you'll be home free. Kratom will obliterate any WD you feel at those dosages. I've W/D from 200+mg / day Oxy habits with Kratom alone. It works miracles. PM me if you'd like further information, but I highly recommend trying this route.

Edit: The first time I ever withdrew from opiates, it was at about 60mg/day of Oxycodone after about six months of use. I used Bali Kratom tea alone and felt 95% normal throughout the whole process. Kratom becomes slightly less effective the heavier your habit, but at the doses you've mentioned, it should be ~95% effective at eliminating WD.
 
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What is considered a slow taper? And how does the 200mg Tramadol ER compare to 5mg Vicodin 4X/day?
 
Have you found yourself to be able to get off Tramadol 100% in the past without a problem? I wasn't quite sure by your post. If not, there is much more for you to know. Tramadol is one hell of a drug that most people find it to be so much harder to get off then regular opiates. The u-opiod/SNRI/SSRI combo packs one heck of a punch when you stop using.
 
whippa craka said:
Have you found yourself to be able to get off Tramadol 100% in the past without a problem? I wasn't quite sure by your post. If not, there is much more for you to know. Tramadol is one hell of a drug that most people find it to be so much harder to get off then regular opiates. The u-opiod/SNRI/SSRI combo packs one heck of a punch when you stop using.
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+1

In addition to this, the risk of seizures is very real and disgustingly common. I have no idea why this drug is so readily and commonly prescribed. All indications point to this being yanked off the shelves in the next several years; many doctors have begin realizing how ineffective and dangerous this drug is.

Not everyone will even get pain relief from it. You have to have a liver capable of properly metabolizing Tramadol into its M1 - o-desmethyltramadol, a significantly more powerful opiate, and if you're a poor to average metabolizer, Tramadol is worthless and poses all risk no reward.

Of course, all drugs effect people differently and yes, some people find great effects in Tramadol, but Tramadol has to be one of the most widely variable painkillers on the market, with effects ranging from completely nonexistant to seizureville and seroternergia.
 
SaosinEngaged said:
I have no idea why this drug is so readily and commonly prescribed. All indications point to this being yanked off the shelves in the next several years; many doctors have begin realizing how ineffective and dangerous this drug is.
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links to said indications? first i've ever heard such a statement about tramadol and it's prescribing.
 
tentram said:
links to said indications? first i've ever heard such a statement about tramadol and it's prescribing.
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http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugs_concern/tramadol.pdf

"yanked off the shelves" was hyperbolic. It's likely going to be federally scheduled. There are more and more reports of Tramadol causing serious side effects in addition to severe withdrawal.

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/PUArticles/TramSerious.htm

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=177237

- Bear in mind, most physicians will tell you Tramadol will not give you withdrawal symptoms. Both of my doctors have said Tramadol does not cause withdrawal, specifically. There's a lot of misinformation as many doctors label Tramadol "non narcotic," which is incorrect.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/SafetyAlertsforHumanMedicalProducts/UCM213265.pdf


Tramadol has come under a great deal more scrutiny lately as people are experiencing some of the terrible side effects this drug can cause as well as the severe withdrawal syndrome which is something like kicking an opiate and anti-depressant simultaneously. For a drug doctors go out of their way to tell you is completely safe, I'd rather have codeine.
 
How does 200mg Tramadol ER 1X/day compare to 5mg Vicodin 4X/day? There are always drug reps in my doctors office. Literally every time I'm there I see at least one drug rep stopping in. With that said, he originally prescribed me Conzip(some new drug) which was going to be approx $240 since it's new and my insurance doesn't cover it so he called in the Tramadol ER. This isn't the first time I've had this similar experience. Enough complaining.
 
The opioid activity in 20mg/hydrocodone is more then in 200mg Tramadol/day, I would assume. Anybody disagree? ConZip = Tramadol ER btw.

As far as withdrawals go, I would call it pretty darn even if not leaning towards the Tramadol being harder to get off of.

Opiates are opiates.
Tramadol = SNRI activity (very clear head, nootropic-like activity) the first 1-2 hours after dose. Then its a nice u-opioid antagonist in combination with SSRI activity the rest of its long half life. So much more of a bitch to get off of and people don't even realize it.

I would say the 200mg/day of Tramadol per day would be harder to get off then 20mg/hydrocodone/day (~10mg oxycodone). Opinions?
 
tentram said:
^yeah, agreed with that last statement, from personal experience.

saosin - cheers. i have yet to peruse the links yet, though.
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No worries man. I readily admit I have something of a personal vendetta against the drug. I was prescribed it alongside Oxycodone for many months, until I had a "seizure like" event on only 250mg. I've read far too many reports of people having seizures even at or under the 400mg cut off. I'm also sick of hearing doctors tote the drug as non-addictive and without any significant side effects. It's just a cesspool of misinformation that really boils down to the negatives of our puratinistic war on drugs. Tramadol is unscheduled, therefore "safe" and doctors feel comfortable prescribing it, whereas vicodin et al are cause for scrutiny and inherently "dangerous."
 
I agree with others that if you can just use hydrocodone to taper off I would do that as opposed to the tramadol. If you're now stuck with the tramadol, try to taper off the tramadol as fast as you can. As for what an appropriate taper would be, that can vary a lot from person to person and depends on other factors - such as how long you've been taking the drug, how quickly you want to/have to get off it, how you're feeling - but the general rule of thumb is to cut a percentage of the current dose once a week. But you could round it to the easiest measurable amount of course. So if you decide you want to cut by around 25% a week, and you were taking 20mg hydrocodone a day, you could do something like:

week 1 - 15mg (3 x 5mg pills)
week 2 - 10mg (2 pills)
week 3 - 7.5mg (1 & 1/2 pills)
week 4 - 5mg (1 pill)
week 5 - 2.5mg (1/2 pill)
week 6 - zero

If you find that too fast you could make the cuts smaller or leave more time between them.

I would also try to take it less often if you can, like if you normally take 5mg 3x a day, for week 1 you could do 5mg 3x a day and just space your doses farther apart. As your dose gets lower you might have more trouble measuring the doses, like if you are taking 2.5mg it might be hard to split that into 2 or 3 doses, but if you want to do that you maybe you could dissolve it in water and measure that or something.
 
So, I've used methadone to stop heroin withdrawals and tramadol to stop the methadone withdrawals (I had only been on methadone the two weeks necessary to switch from heroin), and ended up not withdrawing. But I've always assumed that was due to the difference between tramadol and methadone. I don't know about hydrocodone. Even when I used hydrocodone for a time, it only partially affected my tramadol tolerance and maybe not at all. I'd say it's worth a shot, but getting it over with is well worth it too.
 
My doctor called in Tylenol w/Codeine. So after only two days of the Tramadol ER and a varying 48 hour migraine I've stopped taking it and have started taking the T3 2X/day. Or at least that is what I'm shooting for. 2X/day for a week(14), 1/day for week(7), .5/day for week(3.5), then .25/day for week. Something like that. I figure if I can get through the next of 2X/day then I should be good. I've got access to Ativan (sp?) if needed. It helps with sleep and only take it as needed.
 
^you'll likely find it easy enough to jump off once you've gone through a week of singular dosing through the day rather than fiddling with halving pills and cutting them down anymore - though ymmv, just a suggestion. seems to me you'll just be prolonging the taper for no good reason at all.

if you do find you need to go down to 1/2 then 1/4 it might be a good option to prep the pills in a small amount of water and divvy it up into the according doses using an oral syringe. it's much easier to do than fucking around with cutting pills into halves and quarters, a lot less fiddly and the dosing will likely be more accurate. unless you acquire a pill cutter.

good luck!
 
How are you feeling with the codeine so far? Personally I think it's a much better option for a taper than tramadol and am glad to hear you have switched to codeine. And the ativan should help too (although be careful not to get dependent on it of course). Tylenol 3 contains 30mg of codeine per pill. Honestly, I'm not sure if you'll really even need to do week 4, 1/4 of a pill would be just 7.5mg of codeine, but see how you feel of course. Best of luck and don't hesitate to ask if you are having a tough time or have any other questions :)
 
The codeine seems fine. Starting Monday I'll go down to 1X/day and I'll see how I feel from there. I've never had a problem with when I had a prescription of Xanax. I would take as needed. I only have taken Ativan when going through withdrawal/trying to sleep. The Ativan causes migraine like symptoms more than Xanax but they both make me feel drunk. I guess it's always been something. But anyway, now that my back is starting to feel better as far as pain levels almost all gone I'm hopeful to be done with this all but I know from using blow and trying to stop I will not be comfortable for years. Having a place like this is great. Support makes the battle that much easier to conquer.
 
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