Tramadol and psychs?

[avcpl]

I've heard more than a few times that tramadol and psychs is a bad idea because of the risk of serotonin syndrome.

I'm curious why this is? Yes, tramadol is a mild serotonin releaser, but so many psychs blend well with MDMA, which is a major serotonin releaser...

(I'm not really too interested in blending the two, but my wife takes tramadol and last weekend I didn't let her join me in testing out some 4-AcO-DMT, just in case. Not sure how long after taking tram would be safe if there is a concern...)

 

[Ismene]

I think this idea that you get "serotonin syndrome" from tramadol and psyches is just a load of frogshit clueless kids have dreamed up.

MDMA and LSD, MDMA and mushrooms are incredible experiences. I don't think tramadol is that strong a drug to have much of an effect when it's being overwhelmed by a powerful psychedelic but I'm sure you can give it a go safely.

 

[Incunabula]

Well, I actually agree that it´s not serotonin syndrome that people experience from mixing LSD and tramadol, but some really bad interaction is going on.....Just ask shambles.

I definitely think that extra caution is in it´s place when combining tramadol with psychedelics......I wouldn´t do it anyway.

Edit: Just came to think of it, you should ask your question over at ADD! I´m sure you would get better answers there, for a question like this.

 

[any major dude]

IIRC tramadol is an SNRI, with some idiopathic opioid action. Frankly tramadol's action isn't very well understood on the whole. As for the SNRI action, it would probably be wise to avoid combining monamine releasers (MDMA, MDA, 6-APB, etc) with tramadol, or if you do to exercise more caution than you would normally. IIRC it is a relatively weak SNRI, but given its other ill understood action, always best to err on the side of caution. All this being said, serotonin syndrome is exceedingly rare & people tend to throw the term around lightly for some reason here. I'd guess the risk of SS when combining monamine releasers & tramadol is low, but still a risk, and i'm not a doctor, and it's just a guess...

As for combination with pure psychedelics (tryptamines, LSD, etc) there are a few things that may cause some problems, and there are some negative reports out there, but no one seems to know precisely why. My guesses would be putative GABA-A inhibition, antagonistic action at 5-HT2c & reduction of seizure threshold, or possibly the action at muscarinic acetylcholine receptor sites.

If someone is on tramadol short term it may be easiest to just wait a couple weeks til the pain & need for tramadol have subsided. If its a longer term issue one could work dosage up slowly over several weekends to gauge any untoward reactions.

 

[avcpl]

^makes sense. Thanks!!!

 

[Solipsis]

Be careful, tramadol is known for it's ability to cause seizures and I believe psychedelics can help lower that threshold to a point where it's not worth taking the risk anymore especially since a thing like a seizure can be that much more devastating when you are tripping. I have only seized on acid and nitrous myself but if Shambles says what he experienced was intensely fubar then I prefer to stay on the safe side and assume that it could not have been the acid alone and that it means being extra suspicious of tramadol. Too many people have said to be suspicious of the stuff anyway. For me taking tramadol by itself is like right there on the verge.

Anyway I used to take things with a grain of salt much more in the past, but in the course of years I've learned I would rather be safe than sorry even at the risk of sounding a little dramatic of possibly overreacting now and again. Hurts less than the opposite.

 

[Devourer]

For all safety reasons you should just be careful.

My roomate was prescribed tramadol for cat bites/scratches he had and smoked DMT several times while on tramadol with no ill effects, but of course everybody's body chemistry is different, and perhaps his seizure threshold is high, I do not know.

Just be safe in your travels,
it is much better than being sorry.

 

[phenethylo J]

I am perscribed tramadol and have done mushrooms and ketamine many times with no I'll effect.( speaking from personal experience not stating it is 100% safe for everyone)
The last time I have done psychs like mdXXs, lsd, 2cs, ect was before I was persribed tramadol so I can't speak for personal experiences from mixing them with tramadol. One of the reasons I have not done those psychs in so long is due to the worry of bad interaction.
Tramadol can mix pretty bad with mdma due to lowering the seizure threshold and the risk of seritonin syndrome; it also pretty much blocks the effects. I have heard the same about lsd too.

Always do your research before mixing your drugs.

 

[Addam]

I usually take tramadol around 3-5 times a week for some chronic pain issues I have, sometimes far less or not at all. Tramadol has a 'messy' pharmacological profile compared to many other meds for pain, but it's the one I've chosen for a variety of reasons.

As to the issue of an interaction with psychedelics, I have not found any issue at all with any of the psychedelics I regularly take (2C-X, tryptamines both simple and substituted, NBOMe-series). Initially I expected at least a dulled or diminished response, but this seems not to be the case at all. Nor were there any signs whatsoever of a worrisome interaction.
There might be a slight attenuation of effects with 2C-X, as I seem to require a higher dose than most, but I believe this was the case even before I was taking Tramadol. So take that for what it is worth. (tryptamines remain at a reasonable dose, their action does not seem affected at all).
However, I cannot speak to it's potential effect on something like MDMA.

If I were your wife I'd be peeved at you for not letting me participate on account of the tramadol
But I applaud your caution on the matter

 

[Devourer]

Is it that you take tramadol because it's less abusive than other opiates?
It may not be as strong but I feel as if it's superior in that way.


I would not mix it with anything that is strongly serotonin based,
MDMA or any other PEAs would probably not be a good idea to mix with it.

If I remember correctly Old Dirty Bastard died from Cocaine and Tramadol, perhaps it was of serotonin syndrome from the cocaine, increased by the tramadol. I have no clue really, I think i'll look into it though.

 

[Incunabula]

If I remember correctly Old Dirty Bastard died from Cocaine and Tramadol,

Old dirty bastard is dead?

On topic, if your wife is getting the tramadol for some kind of back pain or something similar, she could just go to her doctor and tell him that they are giving her some kind of side effect, and that she don´t like them. He would then have to find her some other opiate of similar strength instead, like codeine maybe, which I personally find a lot less sketchy.
As I understand it, a lot of doctors are giving tramadol because it´s thought (or has been marketed) as being less addictive than other opiates. I remember reading some were that it´s the most prescribed opiate......Not sure if that is true though.

 

[Addam]

Is it that you take tramadol because it's less abusive than other opiates?
It may not be as strong but I feel as if it's superior in that way.


I would not mix it with anything that is strongly serotonin based,
MDMA or any other PEAs would probably not be a good idea to mix with it.

If I remember correctly Old Dirty Bastard died from Cocaine and Tramadol, perhaps it was of serotonin syndrome from the cocaine, increased by the tramadol. I have no clue really, I think i'll look into it though.

I chose it because it actually is more effective in relieving my pain than oxycodone or hydrocodone (unless I were to dose at least 20mg at a time of either of those, which is definitely not what I want to do). The only other thing that was as effective for actual pain relief was Subutex/suboxone, and that's a wee bit too habit forming for my liking. Tramadol also has the convenient side effect of making me alert and very focused while relieving my pain, which is helpful for work.
I've been on about everything they have and this is what worked for me. Go figure.

 

[Ismene]

due to lowering the seizure threshold

This is a common urban myth. It doesn't "lower the seizure threshold" when taken at it's recomended dosage. What it does is "lower the seizure threshold" in about 1% of the people who take an astromonical overdose - round about the 800mg mark, and usually these people were epileptic to begin with. So that means 99% of the people who take a massive overdose don't have any problem with seizures.

Doesn't sound so bad when you put it that way does it.