Long term SERM usage during PCT does lead to a raise in LH and FSH levels, there are a few studies on pubmed.
Also the SERMs counter any negative feedback from estrogen rebound.
As for HCG, I like it, I also like HMG... Different mechanics though. You forcing leyid eggs and productions of testosterone. Basically if you been shut down HCG in large dosages will get production started again.
Toremifene is basically a second generation SERM. Nolv is 1st generation. Toremifene is more effective at 60mg.
I plan to run the SERM for a month. Is that long enough to raise the gonadotropins?
I'll look for the studies.
I'm leaning towards torem because of the lower incidence of sides, but wanted to get feedback from someone who's actually had success with it (and I know on Bluelight nobody will lie to me in order to sell me a product)
I don't know much about idiopathic oligospermia, but I suspect that because it's a chronic condition, it's a little harder to reverse than a post-anabolic testosterone slump?
Usually (on message boards) PCT is recommended for 4 weeks, but I'll try the Torem for eight weeks at 60 mg a day
I don't know much about idiopathic oligospermia, but I suspect that because it's a chronic condition, it's a little harder to reverse than a post-anabolic testosterone slump?
Usually (on message boards) PCT is recommended for 4 weeks, but I'll try the Torem for eight weeks at 60 mg a day
Idiopathic oligospermia is low sperm count caused from major physical testical problems or some as common as high blood pressure.
In terms of relating it to forced shut down from aas abuse/use it is actually pretty close. More or less, this is because there are people that get shut down very hard off of minor dosages. There is your 19-nors (there is your nandro, tren, other) aas that cause higher/harder shut downs...
Last time I was crazy enough to get off was aboutish this time last year. I did use tore and it did really feel different.
I wouldnt run just a serm during pct. That is just doing to little.
I really do not see any negative to running serms for a few months post cycle.
Of course there is the whole little girl trapped in the 200+ pound guy complex. When you freak out when you start hold water... Lol
lol I was driving to the gym yesterday and almost went off the road when I noticed that all my fingernails were yellow. I was sure my liver was fucked.
It was actually mustard stains.
last week too, I was convinced I was starting to get gyno... I've never done so many sets of declined press and declined flys in my life.
lol I was driving to the gym yesterday and almost went off the road when I noticed that all my fingernails were yellow. I was sure my liver was fucked.
It was actually mustard stains.
last week too, I was convinced I was starting to get gyno... I've never done so many sets of declined press and declined flys in my life.
End of cycles when I, ahuuuum, used xanax to just relax (Bull shit) I always ended up with shitter end results. On the black/white level, you go in the gym to tear some shit up come back out feeling you got a good workout if you ´feel it´ and then take a little pill that relaxes and takes all the strain outta of the same muscles.
Xtc much cooler... Lol
Yeah bro that little girl inside really f*cks things up mentally off cycle.
yeah I struggle with that too, the Xanax stealing my fire a bit. But I'm an anxious person and as far as I know, benzos don't affect protein synthesis nor have much of an effect on serum testosterone (see study). So I take a milligram a day 8 hours apart from my workout.
For some reason, my cardiovascular endurance is superior when I'm on alprazolam. I'll take a xanax and go for a run really relaxed, just striding lackadaisically. Before I know it I'm putting out max effort without getting winded, running like a fucking impala. The only thing that stops me is the sudden incremental desire to puke--otherwise I don't know how long I could sprint for even after having run several miles. I would think the benzo-induced ataxia would make my legs lose all thrust, but no.
speaking of benzos, I don't entirely understand the biochemistry here:
NSFW:
Life Sci. 2002 Feb 1;70(11):1317-23.
Diazepam binding inhibitor (DBI) reduces testosterone and estradiol levels in
vivo.
Dong E, Matsumoto K, Watanabe H.
Department of Pharmacology, Institute of Natural Medicine, Toyama Medical and
Pharmaceutical University, Japan.
Diazepam binding inhibitor (DBI) is a putative endogenous ligand capable of
binding to the central type benzodiazepine (BZD) receptor located on the GABAA
receptor and the peripheral type BZD receptor on the mitochondrial outer
membrane. We examined the effects of an intracerebroventricular injection of DBI
on the serum levels of the gonadal hormones, testosterone and estradiol,
respectively, in male and female mice. DBI (0.3-10 nmol/mouse, i.c.v.)
significantly reduced the levels of both gonadal hormones in a dose-dependent
manner. The decrease in the gonadal hormone levels became evident at 1 hr and
lasted for at least 4 hrs after the DBI injection. The effects of DBI (3
nmol/mouse, i.c.v.) in male and female mice were completely attenuated by the
coadministration of flumazenil (66 nmol/mouse), a selective antagonist for the
central type BZD receptor. These results suggest that DBI acts as an endogenous
modulator to regulate the levels of gonadal hormones in vivo, and that the
DBI-induced decrease in gonadal hormone levels is mediated by down regulation of
the GABAergic system, implicated in gonadotropin-releasing systems and/or the
hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis.
PMID: 11883709 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
increased DBI is a theoretical cause of chronic anxiety, but how is test regulated by GABAergic activity? It's something I'm trying to wrap my head around.
yeah I struggle with that too, the Xanax stealing my fire a bit. But I'm an anxious person and as far as I know, benzos don't affect protein synthesis nor have much of an effect on serum testosterone (see study). So I take a milligram a day 8 hours apart from my workout.
For some reason, my cardiovascular endurance is superior when I'm on alprazolam. I'll take a xanax and go for a run really relaxed, just striding lackadaisically. Before I know it I'm putting out max effort without getting winded, running like a fucking impala. The only thing that stops me is the sudden incremental desire to puke--otherwise I don't know how long I could sprint for even after having run several miles. I would think the benzo-induced ataxia would make my legs lose all thrust, but no.
speaking of benzos, I don't entirely understand the biochemistry here:
NSFW:
Life Sci. 2002 Feb 1;70(11):1317-23.
Diazepam binding inhibitor (DBI) reduces testosterone and estradiol levels in
vivo.
Dong E, Matsumoto K, Watanabe H.
Department of Pharmacology, Institute of Natural Medicine, Toyama Medical and
Pharmaceutical University, Japan.
Diazepam binding inhibitor (DBI) is a putative endogenous ligand capable of
binding to the central type benzodiazepine (BZD) receptor located on the GABAA
receptor and the peripheral type BZD receptor on the mitochondrial outer
membrane. We examined the effects of an intracerebroventricular injection of DBI
on the serum levels of the gonadal hormones, testosterone and estradiol,
respectively, in male and female mice. DBI (0.3-10 nmol/mouse, i.c.v.)
significantly reduced the levels of both gonadal hormones in a dose-dependent
manner. The decrease in the gonadal hormone levels became evident at 1 hr and
lasted for at least 4 hrs after the DBI injection. The effects of DBI (3
nmol/mouse, i.c.v.) in male and female mice were completely attenuated by the
coadministration of flumazenil (66 nmol/mouse), a selective antagonist for the
central type BZD receptor. These results suggest that DBI acts as an endogenous
modulator to regulate the levels of gonadal hormones in vivo, and that the
DBI-induced decrease in gonadal hormone levels is mediated by down regulation of
the GABAergic system, implicated in gonadotropin-releasing systems and/or the
hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis.
PMID: 11883709 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
increased DBI is a theoretical cause of chronic anxiety, but how is test regulated by GABAergic activity? It's something I'm trying to wrap my head around.
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")