Too much Phenylethylamine (PEA)?

[ebola?]

Actually, I commented with out doing the math.
*blushes*

 

[andreas]

let me get this straight if someone asks for an MDMA experience and I give them a link to PHIAKL I get in the shit? ...anyway...from memory PEA has its own receptors on neurons and is said to have a stronger stimulatory effect( though of much shorter action) than the iso-propylamine...some people believe this is why chocolate is addictive.PEA is biosynthesized from d-phenylalanine

Infusion of phenylethylamine increases extracellular levels of dopamine[6] while at the same time inhibiting DA neuron firings.[7][8] It also modulates noradrenergic transmission.[9] Phenethylamine, along with tyramine, reversibly depresses the slow GABAB receptor inhibitory post-synaptic potential in midbrain dopaminergic cells.[10]...wiki

Low levels are found in those suffering from attention deficit disorder[11] and often in depression, while levels are elevated in schizophrenia.[12] This is associated with low dopamine in ADHD and depression and high dopamine in schizophrenia.

 

[wreckhead]

Maybe....just maybe, if I can find a vasodilator and diuretic that will cancel out the vasoconstrictive and fluid retention properties of the combo, I'll write back.

Sorry all.

Jim

If you take PEA with an NRI, logic states that the release of noradrenaline induced by PEA will be negated (just like SSRIs block MDMA's 5-HT release). As NA is the primary cause of vasoconstriction, BP and HR increases, a drug like reboxetine should prevent all those.

The same should apply to amphetamine, meth, MDMA and other PEAs.

 

[ebola?]

Interesting hypothesis.
If it's incorrect, though, a bioassay could be markedly dangerous.

ebola

 

[Jamshyd]

This thread makes me cry.

There is so much that is wrong here that perhaps the only safe thing to say is for people not to do anything that is mentioned in this thread.

Seriously, are people that desperate for an amphetamine-like buzz?

IMO (and I've said this many times before), you have no business playing with enzyme inhibitors (not to mention, taking drugs on top of them) on a daily basis unless you have serious debilitating problems that cannot be cured otherwise.

*sigh*.

 

[hamhurricane]

this whole thread is making me wonder about MDPEA again, could one extrapolate the PEA+deprenyl combo to MDPEA+deprenyl? ie a shorter and potentially more intense MDMA experience.

 

[mitragyna]

What the hell?? I thought PEA was fully inactive? According Shulgin at least:

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal142.shtml

What is it's mechanism of action? Obviously it boosts dopamine (and perhaps norepinephrine), but how? Is it a reuptake inhibitor/releaser? Or is it merely a precursor supplement (this is what I'm leaning towards)? Or perhaps an agonist? Please elaborate on this subject I'm highly interested!

By the way also where do you guys get your PEA from? Do stores like GNC sell it by any chance or do you have to order it online? I'm going back on the MAOI phenelzine (nardil) soon and I'd really like to try it now in conjunction with the MAOI. The combination sounds lovely.

I would only combine Nardil and PEA if you're looking for a hypertensive crisis. Because that's exactly what happened to me when I did this.

I'm not saying that it's not possible to combine the two safely, but it's so fucking easy to do that I certainly would never recommend it.

 

[yaesutom]

Whoa WTF?

I just got a pkg today, got 20g PEA and some piracetam, i drank a random amount of PEA downed with some water, then took 3 00 caps of piracetam, and holy fuck!!

I feel like i'm on DMT!!! Its EXACTLY the feeling of low dose DMT, the fluidity of motion, clear vision, almost feel like i'm a little "dissociated", i feel amped up like low dose DMT, my hands are super FLUID like .. no jitters etc.. like super coordination, WTF?

Sorry for the silly post, i don't know it could be from piracetam.. haven't taken it in years, and i've been amost totally clean off all drugs for a long while now.. but DAMN my head is clear..

I'm not on any MAOI.. hmm maybe its just the piracetam.. I dunno it hit about 15-20 mins after downing the PEA solution.. 10 mins after the piracetam... it seems to be fading a little..

Felt like I took some harmaline+DMT there for a few mins..

--Edit: Damn well it faded to nothing really fast so it could be the PEA.. what a rush.. i'll take more and find out..

 

[Hammilton]

If you take PEA with an NRI, logic states that the release of noradrenaline induced by PEA will be negated (just like SSRIs block MDMA's 5-HT release). As NA is the primary cause of vasoconstriction, BP and HR increases, a drug like reboxetine should prevent all those.

The same should apply to amphetamine, meth, MDMA and other PEAs.

A B S O L U T E N O N S E N S E

If you take PEA with an NRI you'll just raise extracellular NA concentrations higher. That's generally agreed to be a bad thing. If you take a NA receptor antagonist you'll block the effects.

I don't remember there being any evidence that SSRIs block MDMAs 5HT release, just the positive effects of it. I'm not surprised if it hasn't been studied well, though.

Cocaine + Amphetamine =/= no effect, it's still quite effective and enjoyable even, though subjectively quite different.

 

[yaesutom]

Well.. anyways - I tried taking a "00" size capsule full of PEA after the above effects wore off, and even tried smoking (vaporizing on tin foil) it and no effects - nothing more happened -

I'll have to try again in a few days taking a HUGE amount of PEA to see if that caused the "DMT effects"..

I dunno lol.. but it was fucking cool when it happened.. maybe it was just my brain being overloaded with "whatever a big dose of piracetam does" when you haven't been taking any piracetam or any other drugs or supplements etc.

I did "dump" a bunch of PEA into a solution of water, which I then slammed down (fucking tastes like shit). So if I don't get the effects from piracetam again i'll repeat what I did and see what happens --- When it hit me I thought "oh.. maybe i'm feeling the effects of trace amine receptor stimulation" - would be nice wouldn't it? I always wanted to know what caused the amazing low dose DMT effects.. (superior brain, coordination, movements, vision clarity, etc"

Anyway - I did try to take a full "00" size capsule of PEA, and it had NO effect - then i even tried smoking some on foil - no effect at all. Hmm..

the only way to find out what caused the "DMT Effect" is to repeat what I did - it must have been the PEA dissolved in water and/or the piracetam mixed with it - but since the piracetam is "in my system" maybe tomorrow i'll try drinking a thicker solution of PEA and see if anything happens..

lol who knows - maybe I just got a SURGE of choline effects (or whatever several grams of piracetam wouild do).

-- i swear though, it WAS LIKE DMT! hehe.. i'm not lying..the only drug i can compare the rush to is DMT..

who knows..

edit: maybe PEA has to be dissolved in water etc.. for it to work (without MAOI?)

 

[shibireru]

^ Placebo effect almost certainly - or at any rate, what you experienced almost certainly had nothing to do with the PEA.

Despite that the phenethylamine class is a rather diverse one with fairly diverse pharmacodynamics, to the relatively lay recreational drug user phenethylamine = hallucinogen (Mescaline, MDMA, the 2C-[x]'s, and the DO[x]'s). Since beta-phenylethylamine is the archetypal phenethylamine, the parent compound of these hallucinogens, you probably assumed that it was also hallucinogenic. The reality is that beta-phenylethylamine has a great deal more in common with the likes of amphetamine, phentermine, cathine, cathinone, bupropion, methamphetamine, and fenfluramine (these being other phenethylamines).

It's a stimulant. It's euphorigenic. It's anxiogenic. It can increase libido. It has pressor effects and increases heart rate. It can cause hyperthermia. But what I don't think it ever does under normal circumstances and in safe, reasonable doses is produce hallucinations. I certainly have never heard of this, anyways.

The main problem with your trip report, though, is not that you claim PEA was hallucinogenic mixed with piracetam, a claim which almost approaches believability, but rather that you claim it did something without an MAO-B inhibitor (for the love of god never take a MAO-A inhibitor with PEA, unless you should wish to die the most agonizing and frightening death imaginable. The only moderately safe "activators" are Rasagiline and Selegiline.) PEA is utterly annihilated by MAO-A, MAO-B, and aldehyde dehydrogenase in no time at all. Since these aforementioned enzymes are catalysts, they are not consumed in the chemical reaction that catabolizes PEA, and so you can't really overwhelm them by taking large quantities of PEA. The only way to make PEA active is to inhibit one or more of the enzymes responsible for its catabolism. (You shouldn't wish to ever inhibit any enzyme other than MAO-B.)

And, no, dissolving PEA in water is not going to do anything at all, except perhaps to slightly alter its pharmacokinetics.

 

[Hammilton]

It's a stimulant. It's euphorigenic. It's anxiogenic. It can increase libido. It has pressor effects and increases heart rate. It can cause hyperthermia. But what I don't think it ever does under normal circumstances and in safe, reasonable doses is produce hallucinations. I certainly have never heard of this, anyways.

I don't think it's anxiogenic at all, quite the opposite even. I never even found it particularly physically stimulating, it was almost entirely mental, at least until I got to doses far too high. Even when I overdosed on it, I never had hallucinations though. It never raised my blood pressure (except perhaps when I OD'd- it was 3 in the morning so I couldn't drive out and test my BP) and at a doc's appt my BP had actually dropped from a little high to the low-mid range. I don't think it's fair to blame anxiety on the drug, though. Unlike THC, anxiety doesn't seem to be an inherent part of the ride, and with PEA it's far more of a set and setting thing.

The only way I would believe that this was not placebo effect would be if you were to tell us that you smoke cigarettes fairly often. Or consumed something close to the time of dosing that would inhibit MAO.

Phenethylamine is an intriguing compound, for sure. It almost produces a rush when imbibed with a little apple juice. I really really want to hear a report from someone who has IV'd or successfully vaporized the stuff. I want to hear it compared to the same routes of amphetamine (or meth if that's all you can comment on).

This thread scares me, I don't like it when potentially dangerous, and very new drugs are described in glowing terms because everyone assumes it's okay to take.

I don't think this could be said of phenethylamine. It might have other, worse issues.

 

[Smyth]

Piracetam has nearly no effects on me whatsoever. I don't think that is a good drug at all imo.

 

[yaesutom]

I never intended to sound like I was getting "hallucinations" or visuals, I was only comparing the overall feeling to how low doses of DMT feel.

Anyway, this morning I took 4 x 00 capsules of PEA (empty stomach), and it happened again. Took about 20 mins after downing the caps and then it sorta just comes up really fast, lasts like 5 minutes (if that) strongly, then fades pretty fast over another 5 mins or so.

It feels pretty weird (like i said the only other drug that feels that way is DMT), first thing I notice is my hands feel pretty "numb".. almost uncomfortably numb (just because its so weird) and the fan noise from my computer sounds a little flangy like on ketamine or nitrous.

The focus effect was pretty strong, and my head was super quiet and just very clear. Everything seems more "fluid" like my body coordination or maybe just my perception of things.. like on a CRT computer monitor when its displaying at 50hz and you change it to 85hz.. "smooth".

---

Honestly I wasn't expecting anything from any dose, and i've always been skeptical of PEA being active, especially cause you got these people with online stores selling it obviously making posts trying to promote it etc.. No reason to think it would be active - anyway the only reason I got it was it was only 10 bucks for 20g, and I was already making an order for a couple other things so i thought "what the hell".

I don't smoke anymore but I use chewing tobacco sometimes (lol, well daily now.. ) and i did use it yesterday and today.

 

[Smyth]

why is it safe to take pea with a mao-b although not with a mao-a inhibitor?

 

[permastoned]

MAO A has noradrenaline as a substrate, meaning metabolises it. Phenethylamine releases a large amount of noradrenaline into the synapse (moreso than dopamine). So if you inhibit MAO A, you can get a hypertensive crisis from when the levels of noradrenaline skyrocket, activating dem a1, a2, b1, b2, b3 receptors and pimpin dem hoes.

 

[shibireru]

I never intended to sound like I was getting "hallucinations" or visuals, I was only comparing the overall feeling to how low doses of DMT feel.

Anyway, this morning I took 4 x 00 capsules of PEA (empty stomach), and it happened again. Took about 20 mins after downing the caps and then it sorta just comes up really fast, lasts like 5 minutes (if that) strongly, then fades pretty fast over another 5 mins or so.

It feels pretty weird (like i said the only other drug that feels that way is DMT), first thing I notice is my hands feel pretty "numb".. almost uncomfortably numb (just because its so weird) and the fan noise from my computer sounds a little flangy like on ketamine or nitrous.

The focus effect was pretty strong, and my head was super quiet and just very clear. Everything seems more "fluid" like my body coordination or maybe just my perception of things.. like on a CRT computer monitor when its displaying at 50hz and you change it to 85hz.. "smooth".

Ah okay. Sorry. I misunderstood you. Yeah, I don't get any of that anymore, unfortunately.

I wonder if you aren't unintentionally consuming a mild MAOI... It sounds like it. I don't know if chewing tobacco works for that purpose. I was under the impression that you had to smoke it to get that effect, but perhaps not.

P.S. The first few uses of phenethylamine + selegiline are heavenly. You ought to try it.

 

[Hammilton]

chewing tobacco will work just as fine, it's something naturally in tobacco, doesn't need combustion to produce beta carbolines

actually your dose will be much higher by not smoking

 

[ebola?]

Phenethylamine releases a large amount of noradrenaline into the synapse (moreso than dopamine).

Do you have a link or reference?

The first few uses of phenethylamine + selegiline are heavenly. You ought to try it.

I would exercise concerted caution though--people have had hypertensive crises, and you will not know a priori how you will respond.

e bola

 

[Hammilton]

I'm not aware of any hypertensive crisis, though a handful of overdoses, including my own.

Not fun. My HR would be fine, <100, until I moved when it'd shoot up into the upper 100's.