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Too much 1,4 making me dumb??

B

Big Pimp C

Bluelighter
Joined
May 15, 2001
Messages
61
Been doing 1,4 BDO every 3hrs. for awhile now and was wondering if it can damage brain cells. I really realise it when I haven't taken it in a couple hours and I'm sobering up. I'll be in the middle of a conversation and just forget what I was talking about. Anybody else ever do it this much and notice weird things like that?? Thanks guys!!
 
You're killing yourself, that stuff is toxic, stop NOW.
enough said
 
I really don't know the answer to your question, but I suggest you read all about BDO addiction and withdrawal on Erowid. There's also some passages pertaining to nasty negative side effects from prolonged use that seems similar if not less than your habit.
just out of curiosity... what are your sleeping habits like? I can imagine repeated doses like yours could really confuse the circadium rhythm.
 
BIG PIMP-you go to the RENEGADE,UG boards???if so,this is FREAK..remember me????
that 1.4 shit is nasty..just isnt for my liking...cant remember shit,makes me stomach hurt etc etc..
 
man, I'm normally the LAST person to say don't keep taking so much -- but 1,4B is different... it wouldn't suprise me if it was effecting your high. I've tried a lot of different stuff in my time but 1,4B is in a league of its own.
Take it a couple of times a week, sure... but not a couple of times a day.
------------------
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Go hard or go home
 
Bry Bry what up bro? Yeah I'm a member on the Renegade board.
Do you guys know how I can taper off this stuff. Its to the point where I do it every 2-3hrs. If I havent had any for 4hrs or so I feel weird. Like paranoid and all shaky inside. I got a baby on the way in three months and I definatley don't want to be using this stuff then. I've had a few bad spells where I've wondered if I'd live that long. I don't know if I should start by just using a little less every few hours or just try to make it 3-4 times a day then get to 2-3 etc. Any ideas? I've been using for about 7-8 months. Ive came off several times for a week and once for a whole month but the past 2 weeks I've gotten really bad on it. Thanks for the replies!!
 
Xylo, have you seen proof that its toxic? I've read that it turns to GHB then to H20 and Co2. Not saying your wrong just I've never seen proof of it being toxic and if it is I'd like to know.
Bry Bry, I just remembered who you are. Still getting bain? I heard they were gonna stop making it? Now that I think about it I think your the one that told me about this board.
 
There's only anecdotal evidence of its toxicity, as recreational use is a pretty recent phenomenon and hasn't been studied or anything, but there is PLENTY of said anecdotal evidence. It's true that it goes to GHB and then CO2 and H2O, but what you should worry about is what happens BEFORE that. It has to be converted in the liver, so until then you've got 1,4-BDO going through your bloodstream, not GHB. Anecdotal evidence suggests liver and especially kidney toxicity.
GHB withdrawls can be pretty nasty, if you've been doing this for 7 months expect some pretty serious stuff. You might want to see a doctor, get some benzos to help you through it. Getting off this shit should be a big priority for you though, for your own health and the sake of your kid.
 
Actually i read ghb doesn't realy become addictive at all, maby metally but not physically.. But on the other hand, I read that 1,4B is very physically addictive. But as far as ghb goes, if your carefull, its one of the safer things around to take.
I also read that 1,4b gets converted to GHB and ethonal, (very stong alcohol), which is why its bad for the liver/kidneys.
Chem
 
sounds to me like most of what you've read is bullshit
1,4-BDO does not metabolize to ethanol, and GHB is DEFINITELY physically addictive, it's very very addictive in fact
 
xylo - ok give me some info then. seems its all "bullshit"
i got most of mine from erowid and links from erowid which is usually fairly acurate..
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb_faq.shtml
and i quote:
"Despite such dire language, the report acknowledged that "there are no documented reports of long-term [detrimental] effects. Nor is there any evidence for physiologic addiction."
and this....
--------------------------------------
They concluded that "the prognosis for people who experience GHB poisoning is quite good." The degree to which the pleasant state of GHB euphoria may be psychologically addicting may not be fully appreciated. Anybody with known attraction or addiction to tranquilizers or alcohol should pay special heed to this possibility. In the few cases of GHB abuse that we have investigated, there were pre-existing use/abuse patterns with alcohol and/or tranquilizers. Ironically, it was GHB's lack of toxicity that led to increased frequency of use (numerous times per day) that characterized what can only be called classic cases of psychological addiction. Without the dehydration and CNS irritation of alcohol, or the side effects of tranquilizers, there was no incentive to moderate or curtail GHB use. Fortunately, few people seem to have such overwhelming attraction to the GHB state. Even Chin and Kreutzer minimize GHB's abuse potential by stating, "No investigator [has] reported any long-term adverse effects, addictive or dependent qualities associated with discontinued usage of the drug."
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NO PHYSICAL ADDICTION, maby psychological, but you have to be the type of person that gets addicted to things (like a gambling addict)
now also xylo, b4 you keep spouting off at the mouth..
________________________________________
GHB is completely metabolized into carbon dioxide and water, leaving absolutely no residue of toxic metabolites
-----------------------------------------
now 1,4B is not ghb, it first must be broken down into ghb and ETHONAL, then the ghb then can be converted into C02 and water.
you ever read that its not good to mix alcohol with ghb... well when you drink 1,4B thats exactly what your doing, you end up with some VERY strong alcohol (ethonal) and ghb in you system
So you get your fact straight next time b4 you go and say "its bullshit"
in summary ghb=good
1,4b = bad
Chem.
 
Aaahhh! I take 1,4 BD a couple of times a week and I don't care what people say about its addictiveness and terrible ANECDOTAL health consequences. I base my decision on scientific studies, and all the ones I've read (though not totally comprehensive) show nothing detrimental to the internal organs or anything. SO I'm gonna keep taking it.
BUT it does NOT metabolize into Ethanol and GHB! JUST GHB! This is the reaction:
1,4-BD ---> 1-hydroxyl-butaldehyde ---> GHB. Then the GHB is converted to H2O and CO2. Hmmm, seems to me it's completely converted and is only in your body as the first two compounds for a short time, especially since you only take tiny amounts (a couple mls, as opposed to HUGE quantities when drinking liver-toxic ethanol like beer). So whats the problem?
- Citrus
 
Thanks wikings, I've read Murple's ramblings. When I said I only rely on "scientific" studies I meant SCIENTIFIC studies - done using the SCIENTIFIC METHOD(i.e. hypothesis, method, results, conclusion) with controlled variables, published in SCIENTIFIC journals.
For an obviously intelligent guy, Murple seems to have a hard time grasping the importance of this concept.
Oh, and to Big Pimp C: You're doing 1,4-BD EVERY THREE HOURS! From my experience, this is approximately how long it takes to get most of it out of your system after ONE dose. Therefore, you are CONSTANTLY G'd out EVERY WAKING MOMENT OF YOUR LIFE!!! Is it really a wonder that you can't remember a few words here and there. Do you have trouble with co-ordination and not smiling all the time too??? jeez...
- Citrus
[This message has been edited by Citrus (edited 22 May 2001).]
 
TO the honourable gentlemen above this post:
The BD itself does liver damage, not its reagents, also before it is converted to GHB it gives you a more numbed high than GHB. So you become stupid using BD?
TO the original poster:
In general GHB and its derivates do not promote depth of thought whilst under the euphoric influence... When you take like every three hours or something, I guess you can feel becoming stupified grogginess... Most of these sympthons will vanish when you quit doing it non-stop
 
"The BD itself does liver damage, not its reagents, also before it is converted to GHB it gives you a more numbed high than GHB. So you become stupid using BD?"
The words of a scientist. BD has reageants? Maybe you should look up the definition of the word before you use it. Maybe you mean to say the chemicals BD is converted to are not hepatotoxic while BD is. Actually a more likely explanation is that since BD uses both aldehyde dehydrogenase enzymes and alcohol dehydrgenase enzymes, its consumption is very taxing to the liver (much like excessive ethanol consumption). BD itself is probably toxic in terms of human consumption but it may or may not be toxic to the liver before it is metabolized. Butanediol (butylene glycol) probably has other toxic effects on the body, esp. since it is very close in structure to ethanediol (ethylene glycol, active ingredient in antifreeze, read: may be fatal is swallowed). Both will cause drunk type effects because there have been reports of people commited to the hospital after drinking antifreeze to get a buzz.
 
Ok, if you insist mr. chemical night, i will expand upon my assertion that "sounds to me like most of what you've read is bullshit"
#1 you claim that 1,4-Butanediol is metabolized to GHB and ethanol, which is 100% ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE, it is converted first to gamma-hydroxybutyraldehyde and then to GHB, which is then metabolized to CO2 and H2O. Perhaps your simple mind was confused by the fact that the same enzymes which metabolize alcohol are involved in this process, a point which is commonly referenced, but at NO POINT does 1,4-Butanediol actually metabolize to alcohol in your body.
#2 you spelled ethanol wrong, and it's not "very strong alcohol" because ALL alcohol (the kind you drink) is ethanol, it's all the same strength, it merely comes in varying concentrations.
#3 the GHB FAQ you reference is an old and very out of date document which exaggerates the safety of GHB. Hell, look at the lycaeum comment on the FAQ (which you obviously neglected to read): "By John Morgenthaler and Dan Joy. Good resource, but written before there was much information on GHB's potential adverse effects (such as PHYSICAL ADDICTION)"
and for more information on GHB's addictive potential try the erowid page SPECIFICALLY DEVOTED to GHB addiction (are you SURE you checked erowid and the lyaceum?)
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb_addiction.shtml
all this information is readily available, and i am hardly "spouting off at the mouth" by pointing out that you are spreading misinformation. you were wrong on all counts, so fuck off.
 
You shouldn't do 14B , why risk it?
Even if you are 99% sure it is safe, why risk the 1% chance of damage.
GHB is safe and proven. GBL turns to GHB when mixed with stomach acid.
Why bother putting your liver through extra work?
You may as well get drunk, but thats also fattening and nero toxic
smile.gif
 
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