Tobacco in the treatment of psychotic illness

[Lightning-Nl]

It seems to be widely known on this forum that Nicotine is being studied and has actually proven to be an effective treatment for psychotic ill eases of the Schizoid spectrum.

I, myself, thought there was something to this, even before I recently started smoking, but I never knew just how powerful of an "antipsychotic" the mix of compounds in Tobacco can be.

As I said above, I recently started smoking about half-a-pack a day. That's mild to some, but a fuck ton for me. And.....I hate it. I hate smoking. I hate the smell, the taste it leaves in your mouth, everything! But nothing is worse about smoking then the effects it has on your lungs. I have asthma, so I already have bad lung issues to begin with, but since I've been smoking, my lung issues have gotten so bad that I can barely walk up my stairs without being out of breath anymore. I'm also having to give myself nebulizer treatments once every hour or so.

So why would I continue smoking? Because I've never had something decease my psychotic symptoms better than Tobacco. For around an hour or so after I have a smoke, the faces are gone completely. My anxiety is really low, and I can actually function socially. I'm not going to lie, I don't have any friends. And I'm not exaggerating. I don't talk to anyone outside my family due to the fact that I cannot maintain a friendship. I'm literally retarded socially. My anxiety about interacting with people is way too high. I get paranoid about people, and then I get impulsively angry and destroy any friendship that could of been had. And I hate the fact that I do that.

Tobacco takes all the above away. I've actually started talking to people again, I'm not paranoid like I usually am and I'm not having psychotic symptoms. It seems paradoxical really. Why would Tobacco be doing this for me? Also I should meant ion that I've tried Nicotine gum as an alternative, but it doesn't do any of the above.

Well after doing tons of research I am hypothesizing that it must be due to the combination of the other chemicals found in Tobacco in addition to the Nicotine. Namely, the MAOI's found in Tobacco. So I had an idea....

I really want to stop smoking due to my asthma, however, I hate my life and I don't want to go back to being a broken shell of a person that only lives only so he can spend his entire day on a computer. So how do I keep this effect without continuing smoking? (Chew is not an option either, I tried it and it filled my mouth with canker sores)

So I was wondering if I could try chewing some Nicotine gum while taking a reversible inhibitor of Monoamine Oxidase? So something like Meclobimide? I imagine an MAO-B inhibitor or irreversible inhibitor of Monoamine Oxidase would be quite dangerous to take while smoking. So I'm assuming I should not take something like Selegiline (I imagine that since Selegiline is a prodrug for L-AMP and L-Meth that it would give me a panic attack or eventually make me manic anyways)

Thanks for the opinion guys! It's appreciated as always!

 

[immad]

Wouldn't you be able to make an intranasal spray of tobacco extract?

Just be careful not to OD

 

[Abject]

I imagine an MAO-B inhibitor or irreversible inhibitor of Monoamine Oxidase would be quite dangerous to take while smoking.

That's all it is, your imagination.

You can look into snus/snuff. Smoking is also delicious, find some good tobacco you pleb.

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

nicotine patches?

 

[tweex]

Hmm...

Well I suppose I should be dead right about now then. Because I just accidentally an entire e-cig cartridge and the whole marijuana tonight despite being on 5mg/day Selgiline, and although I'm high as balls, I'm not very dead. In fact I have a pulse of around 70... (ok, that is a bit high for me... I'm so high that even my heart rate is high)

MAO-A-Is will fuck your shit, MAO-B-Is not so much. So yeah tl;dr try nicotine gum/patch or e-cigs with selegiline. And don't accidentally an entire mairjuana on selegiline if you don't want to be higher than balls (as I am now).

Uh also yeah there are drugs that are agonists to alpha7 nicotinic receptors which should work well for schizophrenia (and be nootropic) in clinical trials now. GTS-21 is one of them.

Edit: Oh yeah don't worry about the levo isomers of meth and amp. You'll be doing so little on selegiline they are barely CNS active and won't make you manic.

Second edit: Yeah, ebola's post makes a lot of sense now that I'm not so high. The levo amp isomers won't be making you manic... but all the extra dopamine that isn't getting broken down will!

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

I'm very much on board with the theory that many of the brain abnormalities that cause schizophrenia are the same ones that predispose people to find cigarettes pleasurable. I have never known a schizophrenic who wasn't drawn to cigarettes, and if I did, I'd question his diagnosis. Bipolar people tend to like them too. I've heard a well-developed, though at first far-fetched sounding, idea that schizophrenia and Asperger's syndrome are essentially polar opposite disorders at their root, the former involving inappropriate insertions and repeat copies of certain genes, and the latter involving an inappropriate dearth of working copies of those same ones. The supporters of this theory have drawn all sorts of other interesting contrasts between the deficits of these two mental problems, and one of them is the fact most people with autism spectrum disorder are repulsed by cigarettes, and get nothing of value from them, either therapeutically or recreationally.

I think it's nicotine's cholinergic agonism that account for its antipsychotic and anxiolytic effects. I'll have to crack out my neurology textbook and look up the exact neural pathway(s), but I'm fairly sure the agonism of nicotinic cholinergic receptors in certain areas of the brain causes downstream activation of the dopaminergic pathways involved in goal-directed behavior and reward reinforcement, and dampens down the fight-or-flight response.

Very much an area for more research. I think you'll eventually see nicotine, probably isolated and in patch form, used to treat schizoid spectrum disorders.

 

[Abject]

MDAO I think it's wrong of you to assume nicotine is the main drug responsible for it's benefits

 

[Survival0200]

I'm not going to lie, I don't have any friends. And I'm not exaggerating. I don't talk to anyone outside my family due to the fact that I cannot maintain a friendship. I'm literally retarded socially. My anxiety about interacting with people is way too high. I get paranoid about people, and then I get impulsively angry and destroy any friendship that could of been had. And I hate the fact that I do that.

Sounds familiar. I feel you.

I started smoking about the same time I got my schizophrenia diagnosis. Most people I know, that have serious mental health problems, also smoke. I remember reading an article, which stated that smoking can decrease the symptoms of mental illness (i.e. schizophrenia) - that would explain why many schizophrenics smoke.

 

[ebola?]

with selegiline

This is contraindicated for those with schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder--global increase in dopamine can induce psychotic symptoms or mania.
...
Wow...I find MDAO's post to be of particular value.

ebola

 

[bloodshed344]

I've always felt the same as every chain smoker I've ever been around has acted a bit crazy in the hyper, did-you-look-me-in-the-eye kind of way.
But, I don't feel it's a case that schizophrenics are drawn to the cigarettes because of their anti-psychotic effects. I think schizophrenics just love smoking.

Although you build quite the case swampfox, judging by your posts you're far from average, even the average schizophrenic.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Are they really sure tobacco treats schizophrenia or is it just that schizophrenics tend to smoke more (chicken, egg...)? How did they show there's a causal relationship and it's not just that they're more prone to that sort of behavior?

 

[Lightning-Nl]

Are they really sure tobacco treats schizophrenia or is it just that schizophrenics tend to smoke more (chicken, egg...)? How did they show there's a causal relationship and it's not just that they're more prone to that sort of behavior?

Yes, Tobacco does in fact treat schizophrenia. There's tons of studies out there to prove it, just google "nicotine schizophrenia".

On a related, and highly interesting side-note, this study concluded that Nicotine, and the extracts of Tobacco are more addicting to people with Schizophrenia then people without it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23919443

 

[bloodshed344]

Yes, Tobacco does in fact treat schizophrenia. There's tons of studies out there to prove it, just google "nicotine schizophrenia".

On a related, and highly interesting side-note, this study concluded that Nicotine, and the extracts of Tobacco are more addicting to people with Schizophrenia then people without it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23919443

So then the effects of nicotine would not be at all desirable for someone completely lacking schizophrenic traits. The guy earlier mentioned autism as being the exact opposite of schizophrenia and at times I feel like an ass burger. Might explain why the only feeling I get from tobacco is uncomfortable stimulation, nausea/malaise, and cloudiness in thoughts. It definitely doesn't help my mindset.

 

[ebola?]

The guy earlier mentioned autism as being the exact opposite of schizophrenia

But is it though? It certainly doesn't make sense to me.

the only feeling I get from tobacco is uncomfortable stimulation, nausea/malaise, and cloudiness in thoughts.

This is true for many people

ebola

 

[Lightning-Nl]

the only feeling I get from tobacco is uncomfortable stimulation, nausea/malaise, and cloudiness in thoughts.

That's quite odd. Whenever I have a smoke, the Nicotine "rush" makes me feel nearly identical to the way I feel at the peak of an Amphetamine high. It only lasts for a minute at most, but I have all the typical signs of using Amphetamine. Increased compulsive behavior (for me, this really manifests itself as compulsive talking). But the way it differs (besides the fact that my head feels like it's floating) is the fact that all of my muscles are relaxed and I have very little anxiety.

When I first started using Amphetamine, and I mean the first couple times I took it - this is exactly the way I felt. No anxiety, very relaxed and comfortable, but I became a fiend to my compulsions. I am sometimes able to suppress a compulsions, but when I'm on a dopaminergic stimulant - it's not possible. Maybe that's why I had a huge decrease in anxiety? Because the AMPS made it so I wouldn't even attempt to fight back against my Id? That's what makes the most sense to be honest.

I think, maybe, as time went on and I became tolerant to the Amphetamine - my superego eventually became tolerant to the repressive nature of the Id and started fighting back harder (meaning my conscious was fighting back against my instinctual urges). I think this perpetuated the "war" in my head. So every time I would take Amphetamine, this would give "more power" to each side so the war became even more aggressive. This was extremely anxiety causing and that's why I would get a skyscraper amount of anxiety every time I took the AMPS.

But I digress. The main thing I wanted to point out was the fact that before I can tolerant to the Amphetamine is how the Nicotine "rush" makes me feel. No anxiety, very relaxed, and a fiend to my compulsions.