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to live is to die

mrflowers00

mrflowers00

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
3,693
Location
santa rosa, CA
when a man lies, he murders a part of the world
these are the pale deaths which men miscall their lives
all this i cannot bare to witness any longer
cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home
 
what's your interpretation of it? I can't really relate but maybe i'm not getting it. The speaker can no longer bear to witness the lies of humanity and so wants to be set free? That's all i get from it lol.
 
i see it as when a man lies, he murders a part of the world
the part he murders is himself by choosing to lie

so everyday people are killing themselves by lying, which is killing a part of the world

the writer cannot bare to witness people "killing" themselves
hes had enough

thats what i get
 
Why is lying murdering a part of the world though? The word salvation suggests an idea of sin/ mortal sin in this context that I really dont agree with it. Very subjective I think but I'd be interested to hear your interpretation of it mrflowers.
 
Language itself is the problem: to express your feelings to others, you need to work around an incredibly inaccurate and imprecise framework of sentences, forcing your emotional state at the time into a series of verbs, adjectives and nouns. Without the bonus of body-language, eye contact and so-on that give greater context during communication with other people, it's difficult to be understood properly.

I find that the English language, and other languages, make expressing yourself sometimes exasperating because even though, undoubtedly at some point during history, the word that describes your feelings best is within the confines of the language, I am incredibly inarticulate and I've the greatest trouble making my thoughts known to anyone. Studying language was never a waste, but it has not helped me on that front...

Still, if it's literal, and the poet is discussing people who lie, then I agree somewhat with mrflowers00's short and to-the-point opinion. However, a great deal of people lie because they have to; the guy or girl taking your order at, say, Burger King is not pleased to meet you or happy to see you in any way because they more likely than not don't really give a fuck whether or not you exist; it's just practised common courtesy to be greeted by a person in a restaurant or a shop, wearing a smile, and you might talk to them or treat them like a wanker, but ultimately your mood decides how nice you can be, whereas their manager decides whether or not they're being kindly enough towards you!

People have to lie, and without lies we'd run into a lot of trouble. Scandals are on one hand awful, but also fun: we've learned over the past century that our leaders - our presidents - are capable of lying like us wee mortals and it's both sad and frightening; such people ought to be superhuman! You won't get mankind to drop lying any time soon.

mrflowers00: Is there anything in particular, or some specific event that caused you to think of this? I'd like to know why you decided to mention this now: did someone tip you over the edge? Be safe.

When I first opened this thread I was worried it seemed like a suicide note! Please try to combine your first two posts, so that nobody makes that mistake (or I could just be more of a raging moron than I first thought! %)) :-/
 
opium kinda gets it it's like you lie to cover up something you did and that is the death of your good you become evil and eventually the only salvation is death in it's true form
 
^I get it but I don't think looking at lies as the death of all good is 'right'. I mean I dunno, there's things so much worse than lying...and that's not counting the fact that lies can be beneficial. I've told my parents I've never done drugs other than weed and I'm pretty sure they're happier thinking that :\
All I'm saying is things don't necessarily need to be seen so negatively! Try to look for the bright side as well, it can be found in most things :)
 
Gotta say my views lean the same way as robotripping. there isnt any good or evil just an individuals interpretation. The owhole human race is barely a speck on existance
 
If you're taking Hitler as your example you can't really go from there to say the small insignificant people that most of us on here are (I just mean we're not going to affect millions) are horrible and sinful and that as a general rule there's no hope for humanity or something. Two different levels imo.
I'm the first to think we're a pathetic race that should probably be eradicated but I completely disagree with any sort of idea of sin. We're also in control of our own actions so I feel like if you think you're being evil, stop doing what's making you think that...I dunno.
 
Just a quick mention about Hitler before I go the V&A. Hitler believed what he was doing was right. Through history, you'll find that the biggest atrocities were committed by people trying to improve society. Hitler loved eugenics (and unfortunately Brits and Yanks were pioneers in that 'science'!) and believed that the world would be better off under Aryan control and jews were not desired. Not too sure about Stalin (read Koba the dread by Martin Amis for a harrowing account of the terror) but I don't think people who know what they are doing is wrong can really go that far.

As for op point about lies equating to murdering a part of the world (assuming metaphysical world here) then no. I speak to lawyers on a daily basis who's hourly fee is dependent on their ability to bend truth for their clients benefit. They're not all scumbag liars (some are) but truth is subjective anyway.

Kerrigan, once again your erudition impresses me. I'm guessing you're in the field of academia or in any case have a lot of experience of it. Being of Italian descent, I'm always amazed by the amount of hand gestures when they speak, so you have a good point.

Anyway, taking my girl to see Hollywood costumes at the V&A which as camp as it sounds, I'm really looking forward to. Keep debate going chaps (and chapettes) I'll dive in with some super pretentious stuff on my return!
 
^ I'd strongly disagree with that. I believe Hitler to have been someone with absolutely no interest for what his regime did (other than the to further cement his position as leader), he was a man obsessed with power, and I certainly don't think that he had anything against Jews on a personal level, the final solution was presented to him by another member of the Nazi party (can't remember the name) as part of their 'Working Towards the Führer' ideology.. Which sadly makes it all the more unpleasant that we have a man in power, that has no interest in all the atrocities that are being created because all he cares about is the power that he is, he was not a workaholic with a great idea for what was right (like Stalin in his early years) this was a man that woke up just before midday and spent the day walking his dogs and napping. From my studies and understanding Hitler had a definite sense of morality, but just had no interest in it, he unlike Lenin and Stalin was not a crazy psycopath, which as I said just makes what the regime did under his command all the more evil.
 
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