Heroin To kick or maintain opioid with Suboxone. The temptation of using with Suboxone

[NoComply]

Hello all! Long time lurker of over 10 years, new at posting (I did have an account I posted from but that was over 10 years ago). I made an introduction post. Most of the information I get here I get via a search so if I'm posting in the wrong sub-forum please correct me.

I have done many searches for this on Bluelight and the Internet in general but haven't got the information I need, this is why I am posting something that may seem very similar to other threads, but it is looking for different answersr on the best way for me to do this and be healthy.

I have been on Suboxone for a little over a year due to a small habit I couldn't kick. I was tapering down and was currently prescribed 3mg a day, 2 in the am, and 1 in the afternoon/evening.

This past month I relapsed with H. Therefore I haven't been taking any of my suboxone and have a lot. I will even see my doctor tomorrow and get more. I want to be off the H and off the subs. As silly as it sounds I goto NA meetings daily and do the work. I am not opposed to drugs, but I know that I can't do opiates and some other substances. Psychedelics are what I am actually really into, but I need to get these opiates out of my system first and do everything I can to keep it that way.

For some reason the H I use has very long legs and after 16 hours I am barely sick (that's the longest I've gone without the H this time, in the past I would easily be very sick after 8 to 12 hours when I was using less). This would be great if I was wanting to stay on H but is bad for trying to transition back to suboxone.

I have been using solely the H for over 7 weeks. I have been using more than I really ever have, 2 grams or more of good ecp. I've seen others OD off of .05 grams; this is not me bragging, it's just stating the facts of what a horriable position I've got myself in. I'm wondering if the "legs" are just because I'm using so much that it never really has left my body?

My real question at this point is what the title if the thread states. I would like suggestions to make a transition to the suboxone as quickly and painlessly as possisble. After I transition, at this point, as the suboxone is out of my system; would it be possible to do a realitivly painless taper?(I know that sounds crazy, but I hold out hope for something painless) Or should I do a long taper? As I have both options here clearly.

I want to do this ASAP. I am so done with this. I don't enjoy it. I am scared of what most are in my position, the withdrawal. I want to get off opiates with the most minimal pain as possisble. I have support set up to keep me clean. I know getting off is the easier part, staying off is the hard part; but I have plans in place to stay off. I need help with the getting off right now.

More facts about myself to help with you suggestions. I take 3mg of clonopins a day as prescribed for over 8 years so I have quite the tolerence and they do very little if I take more. In fact I often take less, often only 1 to 2mg a day because I forget to take them. I am also prescribed 0.3 of clonidine and have been for the same length of time, I take them in the evening for sleep. I have no other medical conditions or medications.

So I feel others may be in my position, as it's easier to get caught up doing H when you have subs prescribed as a back up, it wasn't this way when I started using 18 years ago.

Any help will be appreciated. If i posted in the wrong forum I applogise.

 

[burn out]

I dont know your body so I cant say, I for me with the amount youd been using I would be screwed. Suboxone does not work well for me with large habits (even though its a miracle drug for me with moderate or small habits) and the having to wait to take it is a killer as well.

My suggestion would be, get your hands one some UEI kratom and switch to that before the sub. The advantage there is you dont have to wait at all and if it doesnt help you enough, you can even do a little heroin with it (it wont block like sub) to help the transition. Once you are stable on kratom, then if you want to go on the sub (since it would much cheaper than buying a lot of kratom) it will be way easier to transition.

ANd yes, if you follow the advice I just gave, the whole process can be quite painless. I have been through it so many times now that I have opiate detox down to a science. its not even an issue for me to get off heroin as long as i have the proper tools (sub, kratom). The only hard part for me is getting completely clean, because it can be very tempting to just stay on low doses of sub/kratom since both are affordable and dont cause any major damage or impairment other than the addiction itself.

 

[NoComply]

I dont know your body so I cant say, I for me with the amount youd been using I would be screwed. Suboxone does not work well for me with large habits (even though its a miracle drug for me with moderate or small habits) and the having to wait to take it is a killer as well.

My suggestion would be, get your hands one some UEI kratom and switch to that before the sub. The advantage there is you dont have to wait at all and if it doesnt help you enough, you can even do a little heroin with it (it wont block like sub) to help the transition. Once you are stable on kratom, then if you want to go on the sub (since it would much cheaper than buying a lot of kratom) it will be way easier to transition.

ANd yes, if you follow the advice I just gave, the whole process can be quite painless. I have been through it so many times now that I have opiate detox down to a science. its not even an issue for me to get off heroin as long as i have the proper tools (sub, kratom). The only hard part for me is getting completely clean, because it can be very tempting to just stay on low doses of sub/kratom since both are affordable and dont cause any major damage or impairment other than the addiction itself.

This actually sound like it could help. Thank you.

I have about 9 strong Kratom Capsols, do you think I could just use those for a day or two, the take the bupe and quickly get taper myself off with what I have (a month of 3mg a day)
I would start out high after the kratom and the quickly cut down and stop in a week? Or should I pay to see me doctor and get more subs? I really would prefer to work with what I have. I have a morning shot of H and then I'm out. I don't want to buy more of anything. I can't easily get Kratom. I would rather not see the doctor and I don't want to stay on suboxone.

You responce was very helpful. I wasn't sure if Kratom and bupe mixed. I could get another package of Kratom, that may be my best option. Like I said, I don't want to stay on subs, so I'd rather not see the doctor, and I want this over as quickly and painlessly as posiable.

 

[mscudery]

I wasn't sure if Kratom and bupe mixed. I could get another package of Kratom, that may be my best option. Like I said, I don't want to stay on subs, so I'd rather not see the doctor, and I want this over as quickly and painlessly as posiable.

Kratom & bupe don't seem like a useful combo unless you're microdosing the latter. Bupe is super-possessive of mu receptors; once in your system, it's like "we run this!" -- just a mg or two can be strong enough to kick out any competition.

Even if you've developed a high dope tolerance, it seems more practical to start with small doses of suboxone--like, start by breaking an 8/2 mg strip into 1/8ths, & then roughly at least, break those into .5mg bupe doses. Starting with .5mg, titrate upward carefully, until you find a dose that makes you comfortable (shouldn't need more than 4mg; when people say "less is more with bupe" they are being very literal!). After finding the dose that staves off withdrawal & cravings, stabilize on that for a few days. Play it by ear. It's not about correct/incorrect; what matters is finding out what works best for you, so you won't give up & go cop with your tail between your legs.

Once you reach that maintenance dose, get a handle on the cravings & w/ds, & start to taper down. THEN, if there are any issues remaining, try the kratom (keeping in mind that it does the same stuff to your brain & respecting the fact that it is habit forming). Kratom or no, it is important to do basic healthy stuff like drinking tons of water, no soda or liquor; eat fruit instead of simple sugar snacks, take brisk daily walks or some other form of endorphin-producing exercise, etc. And avoid dosing with kratom too close to bedtime, as it can cause insomnia even if you take benzos.

The exercise & healthy diet should make it easier to sleep without having to go to town with benzos & risk substituting one dangerous addiction for another. Anyway, this worked for me*. In the long term, a multivitamin supplement, exercise, & good eating habits should allow you to feel good without dope. Also, depending on the individual, MJ can help overcome cravings & other discomforts, & offer relief from the depression & physical pain that tend to make H so appealing. Personally I don't see anything wrong with bupe or methadone maintenance; it's the maintenance programs that drive me nuts. And of course, do keep those sub strips in the fridge... nobody expects to slip; think of the bupe as an insurance policy (& keep it as long as you see fit: expired meds only lose about .25% of their potency over the course of a year .

*Have started drinking pod tea in a desperate attempt to manage chronic pain , but the point here is that it can easy to taper off opioid medications. IME (detoxing from methadone years ago, & bupe a few months ago), if you approach it with a positive mindset the detox process can actually feel good.