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Opinion To Be or Not To Be (An Abortion Thread)

birdup.snaildown said:
People at women's rallies joyfully exclaim their right to kill their children.
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Fundamental misunderstanding of what a fetus is... and linguistics. A fetus is not a child. You can thank science and ultrasounds for letting people believe fetuses are humans. Do you feel bad eating eggs? Veal? Lamb? People get so worked up about any life that they deem 'human', yet feel no issue killing baby animals for fancy feasts... or for instance, adults who smoke marijuana (life in prison is worse than death, no?). I'd feel worse about squishing a spider than aborting a fetus. Murder is not the same thing as stopping the process of gestation.
 
Gestation requires a host for 22 weeks with the best medical technology. If a person isn’t a willing host, I think abortion should be an option. I don’t think you should have to host a fetus or baby, whatever you want to call it, if you don’t want to do so.

The reason I think physicians shouldn’t be involved in the process is because of the Hippocratic oath and because the fetus is just getting more mature while you are waiting to see some doctor who will inevitably have some type of moral position and support one option or the other. And just as substance users don’t like being mistreated by doctors, I think pregnant women don’t need to feel pressured one way or another. They have enough pressure usually from the father and society in general, one way or another.
 
cduggles said:
If a person isn’t a willing host, I think abortion should be an option. I don’t think you should have to host a fetus or baby, whatever you want to call it, if you don’t want to do so.
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I agree.
The discussion should indeed also mostly revolve around the time limit.

On another interesting note, some politicians in my country want to introduce a birth stop for some people, mainly targeted at ''''heavy''''' drug addicts, opinions?
 
Also, forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term is a violation of human rights, in my book. I can’t freaking imagine being raped (by a relative no less) and having to carry a fetus to term and then give it up to God knows who (like everyone who wants to adopt is a freaking saint. Ever hear of foster parents? Not all saints.)

Not to mention that pregnancy and birth are major causes of morbidity (e.g., gestational diabetes) and mortality in some places and in lower SES groups.
 
Buzz Lightbeer said:
On another interesting note, some politicians in my country want to introduce a birth stop for some people, mainly targeted at ''''heavy''''' drug addicts, opinions?
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Although I think there is genuinely reason for concern about a parent being a “heavy” addict, I think once you start making decisions about who can have kids you are on a very slippery slope. For example, I don’t think child molesters should be able to have kids, but that’s an invisible thing and there’s no way to screen for it. It’s too random to start sterilizing people or whatnot.
I mean people with Huntington’s disease have a 50% chance of passing a horrible gene to their kids and not everyone can afford embryo screening. It’s not their fault they have Huntington’s but there it is. I think they should be allowed to have children.
 
cduggles said:
Not to mention that pregnancy and birth are major causes of morbidity (e.g., gestational diabetes) and mortality in some places and in lower SES groups.
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I'm ignoring most of the other recent posts because a lot of them just seem to saying "your beliefs about abortion are wrong because the fetus isn't a life... According to my pro choice beliefs" or to phrase it another way... "you're wrong about abortion because you're wrong about abortion".

I do wanna touch on this point though because it's something I didn't think to mention earlier.

There is one instance where I think abortion is pretty much ethically permissible and reasonably straightforward morally speaking (in my belief system that is). If there is a serious risk to the mother, I mean a SERIOUS risk, let's say for simplicity something in the ballpark of 0.1% chance of death of higher (yes I know there's other medical risks, this is just a ballpark for what kinda risk I'm talking about), then in those cases I think abortion is morally permissible and justified.

I just mention that because so far I've given no indication of any time I think abortion is ethically OK and cduggles reminded me that there are some.

So in some countries I would be far more inclined to see abortions as a readily available option on harm reduction and humanitarian grounds.

If you're reading this and plan to reply with another "but I'm right and you're wrong because a fetus isn't alive because I say so!" argument don't bother, I'm not gonna reply to them because arguing you're right because you're right doesn't make for interesting or enlightening discussion.
 
I find it funny that there are threads where I've been called a man hating feminist liberal, and yet I've just gone from arguing in favor of American foreign interventionism to an argument against abortion. :p

Can I get my conservative card now? I wanna add it to my collection. :D
 
Oh you won't win that game. I have my glorious modstick, I can close the thread right on my last post so I get the last word! Woohoo!

Then the other mods would yell at me and probably reopen it though, but come on let me dream. :D
 
JessFR said:
I'm ignoring most of the other recent posts because a lot of them just seem to saying "your beliefs about abortion are wrong because the fetus isn't a life... According to my pro choice beliefs" or to phrase it another way... "you're wrong about abortion because you're wrong about abortion".
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Actually I don’t think at all about whether or not a fetus is a life. I think about whether or not the fetus is still a parasite that cannot survive on its own and about whether a woman wants to host said parasite.

I think the whole “when does life begin” question is irrelevant to the discussion. I believe the human and medical rights of the host supersede those of the fetus regardless of whether it is alive, can feel pain, or has a face or whatever.

As far as men go, the father should have some input (unless he’s like 16 and then he should shut up), but ultimately it’s the female’s decision. Until men can have the baby themselves, and assume all the risk, their role is that of genetic provider and to support the mother. Although that rarely happens in the case of unwanted pregnancy.
 
You didn't kill a person bro. Not even a sentient being. It would be worse to drown a cat.

Being a guy, I can understand why you'd want a say in it -but you don't, in my opinion.

As for abortion, I'm putting forward the Babe Ruth Bash - knock it as it slides out.

(preparing to get flamed)
 
If your going to get a abortion for a bullshit reason then you should just get your ovaries cut and never have kids ever. People with such disrespect for life even at its earliest conception imo abortions' should not be performed any later than the 15th week.

The fact some women have such a careless regard to a life they are carrying either shows they never been a mother should never be a mother and should just go get their ovaries cut if they think a fetus deservers no right. Abortion is legalized murder at a certain point.
 
cduggles said:
Actually I don’t think at all about whether or not a fetus is a life. I think about whether or not the fetus is still a parasite that cannot survive on its own and about whether a woman wants to host said parasite.

I think the whole “when does life begin” question is irrelevant to the discussion. I believe the human and medical rights of the host supersede those of the fetus regardless of whether it is alive, can feel pain, or has a face or whatever.

As far as men go, the father should have some input (unless he’s like 16 and then he should shut up), but ultimately it’s the female’s decision. Until men can have the baby themselves, and assume all the risk, their role is that of genetic provider and to support the mother. Although that rarely happens in the case of unwanted pregnancy.
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BOOM; cdugs said it; just go ahead and end the thread now
 
TripSitterNZ said:
People with such disrespect for life even at its earliest conception imo abortions' should not be performed any later than the 15th week.
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Most women don’t find out they’re pregnant until up to seven weeks. They have to verify, deal with the situation and make arrangements to get an abortion, which can be a daunting challenge, particularly in some states in the US and many countries.
That’s why I support access to free contraception for males and females with minimal medical intervention, quick access to inexpensive or scaled expense diagnostic services for pregnancy and rapid access to scaled expense abortion services. Those three are rarely, if ever, available.
 
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