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TO: All opiate/opiod users. Long term or Short. Please Read.

ovara said:


As for Mu-receptor downregulation resulting from opiate-agonist use, the cost/benefit will probably depend on the distribution of the compound.

Fat solubles with high affinity are not so nice.
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Yes, and What?
 
Jumbo said:
I'm sorry silverf, I don't follow, although I admit I'm a chemistry dullard. Or is this more pharmacology? Or physiology? (As if that would make a difference! :\ ) Anyway, could you expound on that somewhat?

And Tri-nity, I don't want to be insensititve, but did (does?) your grandfather have a positive prognosis? If not, perhaps his doctoe made a judgement that pain control was more valuable and necessary?
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You gotta look at it like this.... A chemical is gonna do brain damge indirectly, a small amount of chem causing a large chemical reaction, or directly, X amount of this chemical does Y amount of damage to Z cells...

For instance, I believe cyanide is dangerous in the lower milligrams, maybe micrograms.... Obviously, there are way more nuerons than there is enough for cyanide to kill all the cells directly.. Hence it causes a reaction in which a small amount of the chem causes a deadly result...

Obviously, it wouldnt make sense that fentanyl damages cells directly.. There is just way to little chemical and way too many cells to kill off to cause a toxic effect.. If it is indirectly damaging cells, it would be due to causing a greater reaction.. So fentanyl gets metabolised, this reaction would stop, and there for no more cumnulative damage, and cells return to normalcy.. The only way to achieve toxicity would be to use huge doses that would kill by drug side effects fist, and not toxicity..

I suppose that indirect toxicity could cause cumnulative damage, if someone was using it often enough they were killing off cells faster than regneration occurs.. But that seems unlikely.
 
Is someone suggesting there´s some endorphin peptide, that agonises Mu-receptors? Never heard of such.
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There are a number of peptides that are potent mu-agonists, such as Dermorphin, a strong mu-agonist in the milligram range that is found in certain species of frogs. This peptide is not scheduled, but you wont find a peptide company that will sell you some, without some sort of researchers license, and you wont find this frog at your local pet-store.

Fentanyl does not cause liver damage, and is not neurotoxic. It is toxic however, in the sense that a small amount can kill someone. I agree that mixed agonists (talwin, butorphanol, nubain etc.) do have potential neurotoxicity. Tramadol also seems to be a possible neurotoxin, it has a cyclohexane structure, like ketamine, which is a strong kappa agonist.

Most opiates, like phenethrenes such as codeine, morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, diamorphine, hydromorphone, oxymorphone etc, are not neurotoxic, but again are toxic in the sense that they are lethal in excessive doses. These opiates are the most commonly used agonists, so there is no need to scare people about long-term toxicity.
 
^^^^This was the basis on some possible legislation making salvia illegal, given its effect on the kappa (an opiate) receptor. But by this logic, DXM or loperamide should be illegal, since it effects an opiate receptor. The kappa receptor isnt exactly the most desirable, but plenty of people enjoy dissociatives like ketamine, pcp and to a lesser extent dxm.
 
negrogesic said:
There are a number of peptides that are potent mu-agonists, such as Dermorphin, a strong mu-agonist in the milligram range that is found in certain species of frogs. This peptide is not scheduled, but you wont find a peptide company that will sell you some, without some sort of researchers license, and you wont find this frog at your local pet-store.
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I believe it is found in raw opium too?
 
Dermorphin is certainly not found in opium. Are you thinking about morphine? It is a peptide, and i dont think there are any peptides in poppies. Dermorphin has distinctly different pharmacological properties in comparison to morphine, and is far more potent and orally active. Im not sure what led you to believe Dermorphin is in opium, but it surely is not.

No offence silverfucked, but you might need to brush up on your opiate pharmacology. I think you were the one who made this misinformed statement in another post:
Oxymorphone is an active chemical.. Oxycodone isnt.. Oxycodone metabolises into oxymorphone.. Therefore when you ingest oxycodone, you are getting high off of oxymorphone... This also explains the fact that oxymorphone has a stronger rush than oxycodone; oxycodone must be metabolised first before being active, and though it is quite instantaneous, it still delays the rush
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yeah, I caught that, and had always made the assumption that it followed suit with a codiene or heroin like action.. Shame on me right?

As for the above comment, it was just a question from a vague memory of mine.. Some argument about opium being shitty, the fact that it contains many rare opiate analogues, and some other shite... Learning from my last mistake, hence the question instead of statement.

here's the fuck up

Quick reading of your reply about dermorphin in an opium post leads to another SF fuck up..
 
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Long term addicts receptors grow.

The opiate receptors grow over time to cope with the extra opiates you put in your body,especially the case with long-term users. Therefore if u are a long term user and do finally manage to become drug free, the likelyhood is that u will never feel content or normal ever again as your body will never produce enought of its own natural opiates to fill those enlarged receptors. I'm a long term opiate addict and I can come off the stuff, but I just never recover, I always feel cool and have those tell tale turkey signs eg.yawning,eyes watering. I've come to terms with the fact i'll probably never ever be able to live a normal life without being on a regular supply of opiates.
Pete,UK
 
^
i agree upto a point, how long are you talking about after withdrawing?

I had a 10 yr methadone addiction (high doses, IV amps) after 3 months i felt fine. After 6 months it could be that a) you have an underlying disorder eg depression, ADD. or b) your receptors ARE permanently fucked.
The latter i posted a thread about some new research about this which used MRI imaging and found irreversible differences. Although the study sample was very small, so more research is needed IMO.
 
this is scary. I would think that it would be different for everybody as to how long of an opiate addiction would be needed to permanently mess up your own production of endorphins, etc.. I have been on H for roughly 6 months. In your guys opinion is there still hope for me? or am i doomed with damage that will always leave me "subpar"?
 
Over the past year Ive learned more from Infincia boy (TTD), then any other moderator or person on Bluelight or anywhere else. He's incredibly talented and is always up to something (like me). I hope he fixes the glitch and is allowed on BL soon.
 
I was on a very large amount of diamorphine for 10yrs no gaps either,yep i do believe that my receptors have grown alot,and ill never be ok ever again without opiates,i came to terms with this along time ago,when i say i dont recover,well 8months is the longest i could ever stick it,and i mean i was shivering cold everyday of that,eyes watering+just never recovered,the doctors believe this is whats happened.Life goes on.........
 
^^

The report you linked us to said that the patients or test subjects were dependant on methadone for years.. does this mean that it would take years of opiate abuse to change brain chemistry forever, or would it be different for each user? Maybe there is hope for some of us yet..
 
Of course it would vary from individual to individual. Everything does. I would say that this shows a definite trend though. I wonder if it would apply to us "weekend users" after a while?
 
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