Essessarai
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2023
- Messages
- 3
Thus far I have been unable to get a good estimate of tianeptine’s analgesic activity relative to other opioids. For practical clinical purposes this is often reckoned as milligram morphine equivalents, that is the dosage of oral morphine which would provide pain relief equivalent to a milligram of the opioid in question. This can aid in determining risk of overdose, converting between methods of administration and in rotating opioids.
I acknowledge that as a concept, MME is not without issues, and would stress that those tasks which MME can aid are not purely quantitative and should be approached holistically, acknowledging that numerous factors affect the subjective experience of analgesia, and risk of toxicity. The FDA made materials available from a conference they held on the subject of MME ( https://www.fda.gov/drugs/news-even...and-knowledge-gaps-research-opportunities-and ), and I acknowledge that there are important caveats to the concept. Furthermore, it’s reasonable to assume that euphoria is not always proportional to analgesia. Nevertheless MME cab be useful. Has anyone estimated tianeptine’s MME?
I have heard that the minimum MOR-agonist dose is about 150mg. I would expect this corresponds to perhaps 5-10mg of morphine sulfate (oral). Below that you don’t get any opioid like effects. Thus Tianeptine is not high potency and the oral-oral MME is on the order of 0.03 - 0.06mg.
From a harm reduction standpoint, it would be useful to know about how much of a substitute d opioid would achieve a similar effect as a maintenance or recreational dose of Tianeptine, potentially reducing overdose risk. So far I haven’t found any pharm literature on this topic, so reaching out to the forum in case this is indeed known.
I acknowledge that as a concept, MME is not without issues, and would stress that those tasks which MME can aid are not purely quantitative and should be approached holistically, acknowledging that numerous factors affect the subjective experience of analgesia, and risk of toxicity. The FDA made materials available from a conference they held on the subject of MME ( https://www.fda.gov/drugs/news-even...and-knowledge-gaps-research-opportunities-and ), and I acknowledge that there are important caveats to the concept. Furthermore, it’s reasonable to assume that euphoria is not always proportional to analgesia. Nevertheless MME cab be useful. Has anyone estimated tianeptine’s MME?
I have heard that the minimum MOR-agonist dose is about 150mg. I would expect this corresponds to perhaps 5-10mg of morphine sulfate (oral). Below that you don’t get any opioid like effects. Thus Tianeptine is not high potency and the oral-oral MME is on the order of 0.03 - 0.06mg.
From a harm reduction standpoint, it would be useful to know about how much of a substitute d opioid would achieve a similar effect as a maintenance or recreational dose of Tianeptine, potentially reducing overdose risk. So far I haven’t found any pharm literature on this topic, so reaching out to the forum in case this is indeed known.