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Tianeptine + MDMA serotonin syndrome

MeDieViL

MeDieViL

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is there anyone here that know if this combo could increase the risk of serotonin syndrome?
 
Well there are no cases known.But since you wrote "could increase the risk of SS" I would say yes to your question.It is said that Tianeptin increases the response to MDMA,the actual reports of human trials are very sparse though.But it is known that the opposite of Tianeptines compound class,the SSRI's,abolish the MDMA response altogether (or you have to take 5-10x the dose) so this gives Another hint of possible synergism.I've read about some side effects in one report,just to mention it.

Just don't force it with too high doses,but otherwise it might give you an intense and very rewarding experience (from there to Serotonin Syndrom is still a good way to go). The combination intrigues me since I have it on my schedule,so let us know if you have any concrete plans :) It could make a difference if one takes the Tianpetine chronically or just a single dose.
 
anecdotally this seems like an interesting combination, i'm wondering if there are any compounds that could abort serotonin syndrome when its coming, just in case, better be safe then sorry
 
I actually made a thread here on the subject and the responses were mixed. I'll try to find it. I wasn't thinking SS in particular, but problems in general.
 
MeDieViL said:
anecdotally this seems like an interesting combination, i'm wondering if there are any compounds that could abort serotonin syndrome when its coming, just in case, better be safe then sorry
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Yes dantrolene, but it also requires forced cooling in conjunction with the dantrolene in order to prevent development of hyperthermia to the point of causing rhabdomyalysis (breakdown of muscle tissue). Once this happens you're pretty much fucked as one of the breakdown products of rhabdomyalisis, myoglobin, is extremely nephrotoxic and results in renal failure. After that you get the hyperthermia causing havoc with the clotting cascade mechanism, resulting in spontaneous formation of clots throughout your body and eventual death in a very unpleasant way.

Something to be considered when potentially courting seritonin syndrome with drug combos
 
So pretty much the risk here is that it may facilitate the uptake of MDMA into the serotonergic terminal button/neuron through SERT, thereby boosting the effects?

I would have thought this wouldn't happen since Tianeptine purportedly enhances SE reuptake through a mechanism other than SERT?
That said I would still encourage plenty of caution.
 
I think there is a HUGE risk of SS. Even mixed with Amphetamine, I found it to cause a lot of heating and strong vertigo.

However, taking it after MDMA, say 4 - 6 hours later, it seems to almost completely eliminate the crash!
 
Interestinggg, so it /is/ enhancing the uptake of amphetamine into the neuron it would appear - though i'm stuck on exactly /how/ it's doing it if it's /not/ through SERT.
 
Please specify if the Tianeptin has been taken in a simple dose or chronically!
 
Jamshyd said:
I think there is a HUGE risk of SS. Even mixed with Amphetamine, I found it to cause a lot of heating and strong vertigo.

However, taking it after MDMA, say 4 - 6 hours later, it seems to almost completely eliminate the crash!
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in theory that makes sense as it should refuel serotonin alot faster where it has been used by MDMA, i beleive it could be a very good tool to reduce mdma's after affect, also something i would like to try

could i be safe if i sowly combine the 2? or is there no way to do this experiment without lowering the risk os SS?
what are the signs of SS starting to come up? could i take very low dosages hours apart and check if i get any symptons?
 
neuroprotective agents in this regard: creatine, citicoline, spin traps, for instance, are definitely shown to work to counter hyperthermia.
 
I don't think we really have a fucking clue how Tianeptine works.

It is my understanding that tianeptine does not compete or interfere with conventional SSRIs, so I doubt it will have much of an effect on MDMA.
 
If you take tianeptine shortly after MDMA, won't it just cause your serotonin neurons to uptake more (oxidized) dopamine floating around and thus causing more damage to the serotonin neurons?
 
"AFAIK, I am the only person to have ever taken MDMA while taking tianeptine (37.5mg/day for a month). The combination was a good one, and undoubtably the tianeptine potentiated (made stronger) the effects of the MDMA. Having rolled a dozen times, on a variety of doses, I can say that this was the strongest roll I have ever experienced. The dose of MDMA was average for me, and it was pure and tested. The tianeptine does not potentiate the MDMA enough to make the combination really dangerous, but nonetheless I recommend being cautious when using MDMA while taking tianeptine. You certainly would not need to take more than 1-2 pills."
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/72530-FAQ-Antidepressants-and-Recreational-Drugs-(long!)

I wouldn't do it. As someone else said, we have no clue how tianeptine even works. Maybe you won't have an acute toxic reaction, but there's no telling whether it will exacerbate neurotoxicity, heart damage, or any other long-term concerns. Yeah, maybe it would help, who knows, but in a choice between slightly impaired short term memory and slightly increased risk for cardiovascular disease, and some chance of coming out unscathed but some chance of coming out brain-dead and pulmonary hypertensive... I'd always choose the former.
 
Well, I've taken tianeptine with MDMA (and methylone, and bk-MBDB), and did not notice any significant potentiation. It did alter the subjective effects somewhat however.

Tinaneptine is a SSRE (selective serotonin reuptake enhancer), isn't it?
Perhaps it does act through some mechanism other than modulation of SERT, like through the autoreceptor system, to effect change, but it seems unlikely due to quite rapid onset.
 
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MattPsy said:
Tinaneptine is a SSRE (selective serotonin reuptake enhancer), isn't it?
Perhaps it does act through some mechanism other than modulation of SERT, like through the autoreceptor system, to effect change, but it seems unlikely due to quite rapid onset.
Click to expand...

I don't think that tianeptine actually exerts its main effects by enhancing reuptake, I think that it's only an acute effect of administration that normalizes before long. No one really knows how it works.

Edit: Further reading http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2902200/?tool=pmcentrez
 
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