Opioids Thoughts on Nucynta??

[blueeyes26]

I am an experienced opiate user (been taking norcos 10/325 for about 3 years. I became super addicted to it and finally I've been off the crap for almost a week. The withdrawal was HORRIBLE. I couldn't eat for 6 days or do anything for that matter. Now my PM precribed me Nucynta 100mg. After taking one and feeling absolutely no euphoria I popped 2 more. Oh yea, I definitely felt good I actually think I might like Nucynta better than the Norcos. I've never tried oxys or morphine or any other drug. Just those damn yellow evil pills!! I would like to know peoples thoughts on Nucynta if you are on them. Does it give you a high? What's the max dose that can be taken in one day? I also heard/read that Nucynta doesn't cause withdrawal since its a synthetic opiad. Any tips/advice and your experience with this drug is greatly appreciated!

 

[ErgicMergic]

Tapentadol is quite an effective painkiller, as it has a very high binding affinity to the MOR, just like O-Desmethyltramadol (basically identiacal),

It is a great analgesic at 50-100 IR doses, but it is not a pleasant drug to abuse, since at doses of 200mg and higher, the trip takes on a deleriant edge, which can be truly terrifying. It's fun to see the objects melting and morphing, diying and become reborn, etc. on psychedelics, but I don't consider avoiding a stranger crossing the street right in front of your car at 5:00am, when you then realize that there was absolutely no one in the street at all: your brain can't distinguish between deleriant hallucinations and reality.

HR Notice: Don't EVER drive intoxicated or under phsychedelics, as it puts yourself and others at risk; this amusing anecdote was read on the internet,

Basically, it's a good pain reliever at recommended dosages, but can cause serious problems when abused. It is recommended to stay under 100-150mg per dose recreationally, although some BAMF's have begun competing for the Darwin Award gulfing down 400-500mg+ all at once.

I've had the best results with dosing 75-100mg, then follinw up with 50-75mg 2 hours in.

 

[Thanatos]

Does tapentadol share the same mechanism of action as tramadol? I don't see how it would be too much better than hydrocodone with all that SNRI action going on. Maybe it felt so good because you are so used to the hydrocodone?

 

[ErgicMergic]

^ Not at all, tapentadol was rather formulated to be identical to O-Desmethyltramadol (M1), as this metabolite is responsible for the majority of opioid and analgesic effects of tramadol.

These two types drugs (tapentadol/M1 vs tramadol) of drugs are almost completely different; they both share a few similar characteristics: MOR agonist, NRI, NMDA antagonist, etc., but M1 is classified mainly as an opioid, while tramadol is classified as mainly a light serotonin releaser (like MDMA, which is why you feel 5-HT activity on the very first dose) and an SNRI antidepressant with a bit too many mehcanisms of actions, imo, a bit too "dirty" in terms of the receptors it works on.Tapentadol/M1 lacks significant serotonin activity, but still shares the aspect of NRI activity in addition its opioid action.

Everyone has a unique level of CYP2D6 enzymes, and depending on whether they have too little/no copies (poor metabolizers), too many copies (polymorphics), or an average amount normal CYP2D6 function, tramadol is, in their opinion, either "a useless opioid," "an amazingly powerful opioid prodrug," or a "a subtle opioid, but nothing to write home about."

I would try tramadol for yourself before making a decision to try it or not. For some people, it can save them from moving on to ER medications, as M1 lasts long enough to be considered a "psuedo XR" medication, and save them from moving on to heavier opioids like oxycodone.

 

[Thanatos]

^ I quite enjoy tramadol, so would I be considered an above average metabolize case, as far as CYP2D6?
Sorry OP, I don't wanna hijack the thread.

 

[Stacianica]

I quite enjoyed Tapentadol, worked fairly well at controlling pain. I was Rx'd with 50's so, for me if I dosed two about an hour apart it seemed to hit a an okay wave for about two hours an hour after the first dose, wane and then I'd just feel contented with life for the next 4-6 hours. However, it must be the NRI properties that are in it that left me with an anxious feeling and almost OCD tendencies. Whatever I seemed to be doing at the three hour point, I could get lost in. Whether it was gardening, screwing around on the Internet, reading...suddenly time would be just gone and I'd be amazed that I was so engrossed, That engrossed in whatever was occurring at the three hour point. I was on it for about three years. I wasted a lot of time in those three years. Tramadol, was the opposite for me. All the anxiety, no euphoria, crap for pain management and I was brutally aware of how boring the garden, Internet and books were. Just my take on it, though. I agree with ErgicMergic regarding the "dirtiness" of the NRIs in there. The Pain Treatment Center told me when I initially was Rxd it that they essentially reconfigured the way that the brain processes pain signals...then, when I made mention of that same anecdote to the Drs three years later, they insisted that "it certainly does Not", so who knows. ErgicMergic gets my vote over the doctors as far as I'm concerned. Blue eyes, I think you'll like it a little more than the hydrocodone. How did that work out for ya?

 

[ErgicMergic]

Well, entheo, it depends on which aspects of the tram ride that you like:

If you enjoy the stimulant, serotonin-feeling, auditory and tactile enhancement, trails, energy, motivation, minor empathy, and mood stability, then you simply like tramadol (the parent drug), regardless of your liver enzymes.

If you like the fuzzy-blanket opioid effect that comes 2-3 hours after dosing (after enough tram has been converted in to M1), and that effect is quite noticeable to you at a low (25-50-100mg) dosage, then it it very possible that you are either an ultrarapid metabolizer.

Personally, I love both aspects of the high, and I suspect myself to be 2D6 polymorphic. It comes on with a beautiful, long-lasting serotonin high with a comfortable stimulant feel, while the stimulation slowly winds down and lands in to fluffy pillows of opiate bliss and apathy. I love how I can nod very heavily, but if I'm so inclined, I still have the energy to get up, do things, walk around, explore the backyard, appreciate nature, and do other productive things.

Tramadol is one of my favorite drugs, ever. It's almost an all-in-one drug: a comfortable stimulant, a mild empathogenic, phobia and GAD reducer in the right settings, an opioid maintenance drug, and, in my experience, a powerful opioid produg. It begins to lose its serotonin magic when taken more than once a week at doses higher than 150-200mg.

 

[DickTate]

I also heard/read that Nucynta doesn't cause withdrawal since its a synthetic opiad.

This is not true at all. For example Methadon and Fentanyl are synthetic opioids too and they cause horrible withdrawls. So you are trading your Hydrocodone addiction with one to Tapentadol.

 

[Stacianica]

Actually, I found the withdrawal of Tapentadol to be worse than Hydrocodone. Despite the tolerance level involved and the activity at the mu1 receptor site, there is still the issue of the NRI component in Tapentadol. One must not only wean from the selective serotonin norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, but the opioid at the same time. There will be a different pacing in tapering of theNRI and the opiate.

 

[ErgicMergic]

One must not only wean from the selective serotonin norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, but the opioid at the same time.

They are one and the same, making tapering tricky and difficult. However, being on Nucynta IR and ER for several months in the past, I have to say that w/d's won't be as bad as hydrocodone since they are not as recreational as hydrocodone, and make you feel like shit at doses over 200-250mg a day, making it a bit self limiting in terms of abuse potential. Also, it is simply not that euphoric at any dosage compared to real opiates like hydrocodone, since the NRI and NMDA antagonist effects "dirty" up the feeling and make it feel like more of a "medicine head" (negative) than a "high."

 

[Stacianica]

Agreed. My script stares that MDD is 300mg per day. I've honestly never gone over that. Nor have I had the opportunity to try it in IR. Unless you count chewing those little Ickies up. Tastes like Beetle asses. Ew.

 

[blueeyes26]

I took 500mg yesterday and I did get a little paranoid not gonna lie. When I would take my dog out is seriously felt like it took my garage door 29min to close. I did feel some euphoria but the hydro is better. I wanna get back on it but then again im fine without it so I don't feel like going through withdrawal again. I wish there was a pill to make you feel good without being addicting.

 

[blueeyes26]

How do you like the ER ones? I've always been on the It's.

 

[blueeyes26]

Actually, I found the withdrawal of Tapentadol to be worse than Hydrocodone. Despite the tolerance level involved and the activity at the mu1 receptor site, there is still the issue of the NRI component in Tapentadol. One must not only wean from the selective serotonin norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, but the opioid at the same time. There will be a different pacing in tapering of theNRI and the opiate.

Eh well I had no idea. My PM said this shit doesn't cause withdrawal. Maybe I should stop taking this too. My pain isn't at the point anymore where I need a strong pain killer.

 

[blueeyes26]

Maybe its my mind playing tricks on me as well. I want to get that euphoria feeling so my body is making me think that im experiencing it. Maybe I just need to start smoking weed again lol. I haven't done that in 10 years!

 

[blueeyes26]

I quite enjoyed Tapentadol, worked fairly well at controlling pain. I was Rx'd with 50's so, for me if I dosed two about an hour apart it seemed to hit a an okay wave for about two hours an hour after the first dose, wane and then I'd just feel contented with life for the next 4-6 hours. However, it must be the NRI properties that are in it that left me with an anxious feeling and almost OCD tendencies. Whatever I seemed to be doing at the three hour point, I could get lost in. Whether it was gardening, screwing around on the Internet, reading...suddenly time would be just gone and I'd be amazed that I was so engrossed, That engrossed in whatever was occurring at the three hour point. I was on it for about three years. I wasted a lot of time in those three years. Tramadol, was the opposite for me. All the anxiety, no euphoria, crap for pain management and I was brutally aware of how boring the garden, Internet and books were. Just my take on it, though. I agree with ErgicMergic regarding the "dirtiness" of the NRIs in there. The Pain Treatment Center told me when I initially was Rxd it that they essentially reconfigured the way that the brain processes pain signals...then, when I made mention of that same anecdote to the Drs three years later, they insisted that "it certainly does Not", so who knows. ErgicMergic gets my vote over the doctors as far as I'm concerned. Blue eyes, I think you'll like it a little more than the hydrocodone. How did that work out for ya?

I loved taking the Norcos. But I had a very bad addiction to them and knew I needed to get off of it. Bit now I really wish I had some. Going back to dr in 2 weeks. Such a long wait! For now I am content with the Nucynta. It does make me feel good. Not as good as a hydrocodone high but it does the trick. But only if I take more than 400mg. I just miss the warm fuzzy feeling the norcos gave me. I was in such a good mood and super talkative. Its amazing how a simple pill can make you feel so good. Once my tolerance built up, I had to pop at least 9-10 at a time yo get "high".

 

[Stacianica]

I know what you mean. Opiates/opioids get me really chatty and chipper too. I can never sleep on them either. Shut my eyes, yes...sleep, no. With the Tapentadol, I only really get an hour or two, tops of that super euphoric, curious, inquisitive talk compared to several hours on opes without the NRIs in there. Just please Be careful around the 400mg QD point. I think 300mg is the MDD. I've always capped it before that point and I have no experience past there. Things could get kinda wonky with your neurotransmitters in relation to serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors.

 

[blueeyes26]

How do you get the high to last that long? For me it lasts maybe an hour tops with hydrocodone. With the nucynta I noticed a much longer lasting high. I would say anywhere from 3-5 hours at 500mg. Im definitely not going to attempt going over 500mg. (Thank you for than info by the way. I wasn't sure what dosage was too much). Tomorrow im going to pop a norco or two with the nucynta and see if that helps with the high...hopefully it will last longer. Im also surprised I don't have any w/d symptoms since im not taking as much hydrocodone as I was before. My first time coming off of them was horrible until I got my hands on some xanax and clonidine.

 

[Stacianica]

I've had the best results with dosing 75-100mg, then follinw up with 50-75mg 2 hours in.

Max daily dose is 300mg per day. I like 100mgs, then another 50 an hour, hour and a half after first dose. So, yeah, I agree-once again with you, Ergic Mergic.

I dig the way you think, Ergic!

Oh, Blueeyes, hydrocodone is nice ala mode with Tapentadol.

 

[blueeyes26]

Im about to try a tapentadol and hydrocodone cocktail and see what it does for me!