Thoughts on Indeloxazine and Mushrooms

[lbeing789]

I've got a tonne of experience with shrooms, and a little bit of new experience with Indeloxazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indeloxazine) basically I'm thinking of combining because it looks like an interesting possible combination...but I am concerned about the nature of the serotonin release and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor action... I know from experience that MDAI and Shrooms is fine but can extend color saturation for over 48hrs. I want that NMDA modulation and I'm interested in acetylcholine release/5ht4 modulation....

Any thoughts on safety? I'm prepared to take a chance, but I dont think this has ever been done before....

Heres some safety notes from reddit too:



Indeloxazine has effects mediated in part through the monoaminergic neurotransmitter systems (serotonin selective reuptake inhibitor / releasing agent, norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor).

Therefore it is advised NOT to combine indeloxazine with any medications or supplements that also interact with serotonin or norepinephrine. Such medications and supplements include:

prescription antidepressants (particularly MAOIs, SSRIs, and tricyclics)
ADHD or stimulant medications (amphetamine / amphetamine derivatives, methylphenidate, modafinil, etc.)
OTC stimulants (diet or weight loss aids, energy drinks, stimulating supplements including yohimbine, ephedrine, synephrine, hordenine, DMAA, high dose caffeine, etc.)
Serotonergic supplements (including 5-HTP, L-Tryptophan, St. John's Wort, etc.)
Any medications, substances or supplements associated with Serotonin Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome)

 

[Solipsis]

Moving PD >> ADD

 

[sekio]

it sounds safe enough to me, but expect possible issues with variable trip strength... acute co-administration will likely potentiate the fx of mushrooms but chronic treatement will dull the effects, if its anything like other SNRIs

 

[Hammilton]

I would be a little concerned about serotonin syndrome, but you're probably reasonably safe.

How does Indeloxazine feel? Can you write up a detailed trip report for that drug and only that drug? I would love to see one, as there are none AFAIK, writing one that's a Indel/Psilo combination won't be of much use for people considering giving indeloxazine a try, though knowing that they're safe to combine, dangerous to combine, or wonderful in combination is certainly of value.

 

[sekio]

Psilocin and friends are not serotonin releasers, AFAIK, nor do they have significant affinity for SERT, so you don't have to worry about SS.

 

[lbeing789]

I would be a little concerned about serotonin syndrome, but you're probably reasonably safe.

How does Indeloxazine feel? Can you write up a detailed trip report for that drug and only that drug? I would love to see one, as there are none AFAIK, writing one that's a Indel/Psilo combination won't be of much use for people considering giving indeloxazine a try, though knowing that they're safe to combine, dangerous to combine, or wonderful in combination is certainly of value.

It feels pretty much as you'd expect it to, it's mild but feels very active, it has a serotonin push not too dissimilar to MDAI... and you can feel the differences in norepinephrine, there is a kind of warmth to it.. but probably it's most interesting property is in the NMDA modulation, there is a coolness to your visual field, and interesting mental aspects, I think it's hitting on some of the activity I have enjoyed from methoxetamine in the past... and I know the MXE combo with psilocin is powerful, I've done serotonin releasers with shrooms, MDAI, MDMA, 6APB... MDAI had an interesting effect of prolonging color saturation long after the trip wore off... I've even done MDMA, MXE & Mushrooms, and that was quite an experience, I'm looking to recreate that basically... I think I'll give it a go.

 

[Hammilton]

Psilocin and friends are not serotonin releasers, AFAIK, nor do they have significant affinity for SERT, so you don't have to worry about SS.

They don't necessarily have to. Over stimulation of serotonin receptors (usually by serotonin proper) is the cause, and adding serotonin agonists to a serotonin releasing agent would logically increase the risk for serotonin syndrome.

This is mostly based off of my own rationale, and the brain does't always follow my logic (which make it hard for me to love it sometimes, like it's getting back at me), so I could well be completely wrong, but fwiw (very little) the only hyperthermia I've ever seen was in a friend on MDMA+LSD.

I am aware that SSRI's are known to blunt the euphoric desirable effects of MDMA, but do they increase the risks it poses? Is it known if psilocybin increases 5HT levels in the brain? I can't find a study to that effect.

 

[sekio]

They don't necessarily have to. Over stimulation of serotonin receptors (usually by serotonin proper) is the cause, and adding serotonin agonists to a serotonin releasing agent would logically increase the risk for serotonin syndrome.

Sure. What I'm saying though is that psilocin is a (fairly) selective agonist of 5HT2a/c receptors. It does actually have affinity for 5ht1a as an agonist too, which as an autoreceptor would make me think that it could *decrease* brain 5HT concentrations. (although, if memory serves not all 5ht1aRs are autoreceptors. there are at least two splice variants). If it were a real broad spectrum brute like AMT or something it may be a different story.

Anyway - at "normal" dose levels of psilocin, there shouldn't be an issue with even strong SNRAs. I don't think it causes as ... broad activation of the serotonin system as you would see from, say, combining tramadol and a MAOI. Anecdotal reports also suggest that eating a quad of shroomies and a tab of XTC is a good time, and not a serotonergic hellstorm.

 

[lbeing789]

thanks for the updates on this, I'm still quite edgy about trying this... but I will take the plunge maybe this weekend, I need to have benzos on hand and I'm waiting for some to arrive.... last night I experimented with the sunifiram+mushroom combination, I didn't really like it, it had an angry quality to it, but I turned it around after an hour or so... I don't think I like sunifiram, it makes me angry which is no good... but I think it did potentiate the mental effects and removed some tolerance I had developed which I suppose was interesting.... phenylipiracetam on the other hand, that's an effective combo, I don't understand the mechanisms but at the least the strength of the AMPA activity keeps everything nice and tight, loads of photographic memories which were remarkable, no sloppyness that I can experience with shrooms if my brain/health/rest isn't 100%...

 

[endotropic]

Sure. What I'm saying though is that psilocin is a (fairly) selective agonist of 5HT2a/c receptors. It does actually have affinity for 5ht1a as an agonist too, which as an autoreceptor would make me think that it could *decrease* brain 5HT concentrations. (although, if memory serves not all 5ht1aRs are autoreceptors. there are at least two splice variants). If it were a real broad spectrum brute like AMT or something it may be a different story.

5-HT1A agonists reduce serotonin neuron firing. Serotonin releasing agents don't require neuronal firing to increase 5-HT, so 5-HT1A activity shouldn't have an impact here.

I think Hammilton is right that some direct 5-HT agonists could be dangerous in combination with serotonin releasing agents, the question is which ones. Does anyone know which 5-HT receptors contribute to the serotonin syndrome?

 

[lbeing789]

I'm probably going to try this tonight guys, I've taken 30mg of Indeloxazine, I'm going to wait for it to kick in... I've got several valiums ready for any trouble and I'm going to take 4 grams of dried mushrooms. I will write a report as soon as I get any updates, if you guys could keep an eye on me/this thread for any trouble and plz hope me good luck I'd appreciate it .

 

[lbeing789]

yeah, it worked out OK.... it was quite intense in the beginning, everything was extremely sharp, I felt myself kinda passing in and out of consciousness, I had to fight through it and stay awake, but yeah it was nice, there was a moment when I felt like I was in super fast motion, and I was making drinks with quite a remarkable grace and speed, handling multiple things ambidextrously, but that part smoothed out pretty fast and it became a regular mushroom trip after about an hr, I don't know if its a safe combo or even a worthwhile one, but I did it, I'm alive, it was interesting.