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Those who have the power to hurt but don't... have won

sexyanon2 said:
yougene - then what is your "further" take on power? I'm guessing you're going to say, "there's nothing wrong nor nothing good about power. It just is."
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Power is a neutral force. When dealing with power, intention and execution are probably the most important things to consider.


Really don't have much to say on the topic. I partially agree with the original poster, when you choose to not destroy you've effectively gone against genetic and cultural programming, further honing(winning) the power derived from self-control. That's only half the game though. The other half is using this self-control to create.
 
Leg said:
Well I have known quite a few "smart" depressed people, and they just miss obvious simple pleasures/things in life and are ALWAYS THINKING TOO DEEPLY...stuff like that...I've been there, too, I suppose. I think it's pretty stupid. I don't really like hanging out with these people that much more than "actual" stupid people, in general, cause I can't take them always whining...I dunno...I suppose they're ok, but people who can't be happy are pretty dumb in my book, in a way. Maybe this is why I don't fit in with a lot of people, whatever. This is just a perspective. I don't mean to insult anyone. Like I said, in the end, I don't care much about "smart" or "stupid"...but I think being depressed is pretty stupid behavior (and yes, there is no "obvious" way out of it, sometimes, it seems, but that doesn't make the behavior smart).
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Leg. No one WANTS to be depressed. It's "kind of" like being addicted to something like heroin. You dont want to be an addict. It just ends up happening. and one day you step back for a second and look at yourself in the mirror and realize for a full on hardcore junky. I didnt lose or gain and repect for you through this thread. The comment you made didnt make me angry or anything. I was just fucking with you. But honestly, full fledged serious depression is no joke. I used to think the same way as you. "Depression doesnt feel good. Just makes you feel like shit. So why be depressed? Get over it already!" God i cant believe i used to be like that. Well yes i can, cause i was, but Jesus fucking christ. I always think i'm at my intellectual prime, my "wisdom G-spot", but then i look back at myself from a year before and always end up going , "God i was stupid then."
 
yougene - Sorry to drag you further into this convo, but I must. :)

So to hold onto power, and true power in this case would be self-control (sort've.. ?), one must create, not destroy?

Are beneficial intentions and beneficial executions the keys to hold onto this power? What would be the reasoning behind this?

This sounds sort've Buddhist to me..with true power coming from the self and true power is the ability to create (or improve), rather than use people for your own self gain.. as the former never runs out but the latter does..
 
sexyanon2 said:
So to hold onto power, and true power in this case would be self-control (sort've.. ?), one must create, not destroy?[/B]
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There is a time for creation and a time for destruction.

Choose life.
Some must die so others may live.

Are beneficial intentions and beneficial executions the keys to hold onto this power? What would be the reasoning behind this?
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The key to power is realizing no one has power. We are all bound to variables than can be manipulated by those above and below.

Someone has pointed out to me that a common tactic in the game of power is Denial and Detterence. Deny the other's power as an illusion, Detter the other's power to mantain your own illusion of power.

This might seem silly, but imagine instead of everyone seeing an increasingly totalitarian government, they saw a government increasingly unable to mantain the illusion of power... Don't underestimate the power of belief and perspective.



Sorry that was a little off track.
 
Not off track at all!

Now, why would we destroy rather than create? Must we destroy the "bad" and destructive things in life? Or should we use them as stepping stones, as stated by Lao Tsu (something like: if you encounter a stone on your path, view it not as an obstacle, but rather use it as a stepping stone)?

What about, why must some die for others to live? Other than the destroyers of the world who must die, who else needs to?

About power now...

Hmm, I'm struggling to accept that power is merely an illusion and that we truly have no power. Are you saying that there is no static power?

And why can we not control the variables above and below us? Are we ever at the top of the power heirarchy?

And for those two rules of Denial and Detterence, are you saying to call someone else's power as an illusion? Or to call their power as illusion even if it isn't?

Now when the people view an increasingly totalitarian government instead as a gov't unable to mantain power (or the illusion of it), what happens? Do the people gain power? The gov't still has control over them via military and media.. so how is anything changed?

Will they fight back? Does this understanding give them more power, or more desire to fight back?

Hmm..
 
sexyanon2 said:
Hmm, I'm struggling to accept that power is merely an illusion and that we truly have no power. Are you saying that there is no static power?
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A man never seen modern society before walks into a train station. He sees anoter man blow a whistle, in effect making everyone hurry and get on the train. The man concludes the whistle blower is one of the most powerful people he has ever seen. Power is an image.


And why can we not control the variables above and below us? Are we ever at the top of the power heirarchy?
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We can, but our attempts to control variables are dictated by algorithms and variables as well. Which algorithms do you want to guide you?



And for those two rules of Denial and Detterence, are you saying to call someone else's power as an illusion? Or to call their power as illusion even if it is't?
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The thing is, it is and isn't an illusion. It's not an illusion in the sense that what you label as power can have major effects on your life. It is an illusion in the sense that the whole concept of power relies on the ability to project your image of power onto others.
 
It is an illusion in the sense that the whole concept of power relies on the ability to project your image of power onto others.
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I think that is manipulation actually. ??

Real power is getting people to comply with your interests but they must do that voluntarily. So real power lies in natural leadership. Power is not static and only exists when it is actualised between people and disappears once it is no longer being used.

Anything else is just force or manipulation.
 
We all manipulate our environment, it is what makes human such a successful species.


People can be manipulated to "voluntarily" comply.
 
Let me rephrase the question:

What do YOU get out of your interaction with stupid people? I just had someone tell me that I was wrong, Hitler didn't actually hate jews, it was "the person giving him orders". I reference Mein Kampf, and it is "biased". Someone explain to me what I get out tolerating this fuckhead, as opposed to abusing him so I dont have to listen to his bullshit any more?
 
So you are calling Hitler unintelligent? He rose to power, pulled Germany out recession and went a good way toward securing the future of Germany as a super power in the world - but he is a dumb ass? Hitler was crazy, not dumb.

Unintelligent people are not necessarily harmful either. What has someone with Downs Syndrome ever done to you?

Sometimes people you consider less intelligent than yourself can show you a part of this world you never considered before. Writing people off because you think they are less intelligent would be the same as writing someone off based on their race, or simply because they speak a different language than you.
 
no, the person he was arguing with is the one he was calling stupid

Writing people off because you think they are less intelligent would be the same as writing someone off based on their race, or simply because they speak a different language than you.
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I don't see that as an accurate analogy/comparison at all. Intelligence is universally useful and advantageous. Sex, race etc. have subjective values in terms of what historical and geographical contexts we place them in.
Intelligent people are better than stupid people, in the sense that they can accomplish more/greater things, more efficiently. Obviously that is ridiculously oversimplified and doesn't take into account the vastly important and influencial area of human emotion. A good question would be - as individual intelligence increases, does compassion also? i.e. more intelligent humans should not persecute less intelligent ones, simply because it is inherently wrong. This leads on to the idea of including a kind of "emotional intelligence" for human beings.
just some thoughts...
 
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I don't think that was what beatlebot was getting at. If you ignore somebody based on your immediate/intermediate judgement of their intelligence, you could miss out on one of their opinions, that you may not have thought of yet and could really enjoy hearing, you may actually learn something from them. just as if you ignored a man because he was black, but he had an opinion you might agree with. he was just saying look past your immediate judgements. plus, intelligence is not universally advantageous, or else we would all be geniuses, and the ones who chose to not be scholars(fellow geniuses), their choices are all based on nature/nurture, so it's not like we all think the same. Yes, we all have access to information, but that still doesn't help the less intelligent, who by no choice of theirs was made unintelligent. I guess it comes down to animal instinct in the end. The "weak" get left behind, the "strong" move on, or in other words, stick their nose up as they walk by.
 
Fallen1 said:
Let me rephrase the question:

What do YOU get out of your interaction with stupid people? I just had someone tell me that I was wrong, Hitler didn't actually hate jews, it was "the person giving him orders". I reference Mein Kampf, and it is "biased". Someone explain to me what I get out tolerating this fuckhead, as opposed to abusing him so I dont have to listen to his bullshit any more?
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Oh right. I read it wrong the first time.

Well, are you sure there isn't just some kind of misunderstanding? Like I just misunderstood you?

You don't have to tolerate him if you don't want to. You could roll your eyes and walk away. How is abusing him going to help the situation?

(BTW, I'm a woman ;) )
 
All the knowledge I have accumulated I try to share, thats why i learn stuff to share. I try not to come off as arrogant, just here to share. If someone doesnt know something and they want to know I share, if they know something i shut my mouth and listen to what they have to say instead of pushing my ignorance on them.
 
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