"This dose whooped my mental ass! I can't wait to go further!" Why?

[Thorns Have Roses]

Because he was the guy who dreamed up the idea of the ego. It doesn't really exist you know.

the subjective experience of ones self?

But any animal on earth has a subjective sense of itself. Do they all have egos? Don't confuse being self-aware with having an "ego".

There are no Freudians here, the meanings of words change.

Perhaps as far as psychedelic use goes, it is best to define ego: "identity as a social construction", what the Buddhists call the five aggregates of self. In truth there is no "self" since it by definition requires separation from the other, divisions are illusory since the Universe is one, indivisible completeness. All ideas and labels we put on things are not real (existence precedes essence), just fundamentally arbitrary bundles of phenomena it is useful from the survival/individual perspective to address as a contiguous unit.

Realizing this is very liberating, you know that what you are at a fundamental level is inviolable and undiminishable, ideas such as society, status, wealth, etc. etc. are not real and should hold no power over you/cause you no pain or worry. In fact they are laughable child's games! In undifferentiated existence, love and joy exuberantly radiate from every iota of existence. (keeping in mind that such a description falls short of reality given the aforementioned untruth of words).

Forgive the digression from topic, folks. Peace be upon you.

 

[malakaix]

There are no Freudians here, the meanings of words change.

Perhaps as far as psychedelic use goes, it is best to define ego: "identity as a social construction", what the Buddhists call the five aggregates of self. In truth there is no "self" since it by definition requires separation from the other, divisions are illusory since the Universe is one, indivisible completeness. All ideas and labels we put on things are not real (existence precedes essence), just fundamentally arbitrary bundles of phenomena it is useful from the survival/individual perspective to address as a contiguous unit.

Realizing this is very liberating, you know that what you are at a fundamental level is inviolable and undiminishable, ideas such as society, status, wealth, etc. etc. are not real and should hold no power over you/cause you no pain or worry. In fact they are laughable child's games! In undifferentiated existence, love and joy exuberantly radiate from every iota of existence. (keeping in mind that such a description falls short of reality given the aforementioned untruth of words).

Forgive the digression from topic, folks. Peace be upon you.

Well said NKB

 

[<SpaceHead>]

This is an interesting topic I've often contemplated in my own psychedelic use. The line between pushing yourself to higher levels spiritually and just blowing your mind for the sheer thrill and novelty of it can be confusing, sometimes it can be both at the same time. Very early in my drug taking career I had the biggest ass whooping experience of my life. I was perscibed lithium at the time, and took two hits of LSD without knowing that the two can be very dangerous to mix. I was totally shattered, I was moving millions of light years a second, I was god I was nothing I was going back and forth between crying and laughing hysterically and in reality I was crawling around pissing my pants in a public park. That experience changed me so deeply and I have never reached a state of that intensity again even with ridiculous mixtures of high dose psychedelics and dissociatives.

I have had many ++++ experiences and have never had one that I regret really, maybe that first one primed me to be able to integrate them properly. The only drug that has sometimes given me undesired or not productive ++++ experiences is with ketamine at times when I have been dependent on it. I would end up staying up all night mindlessly snorting huge lines of it and would sometimes be terrified by the experience of my mind shattering and the feeling of being torn from my human body and becoming an inanimate object or a two dimensional grid or something. The reason I think it was disturbing is because I was taking the drug because I was addicted to the escapism of it and not because I wanted to explore my mind or have a spiritual experience. The intention when taking a psychedelic is so important.

Although I think maybe the macho ass whooping attitude here on BL might have something to do with the fact that we're mostly male, especially concerning research chemicals. I think there was a poll thread about how many men vs women take research chemicals and it was overwhelmingly male. Its funny to think of machoism in respect to psychedelics, like they were a drinking game and we're trying to trip eachother under the table or something! Also, in this day and age it is easy for life to seem extremely superficial and deluded and empty, at least in the united states and I think people use high doses of psychedelics to cut through this fog and have a cathartic experience that really reminds them they are alive.

 

[DwayneHoover]

If I have panic or depression on LSD or mushrooms, it makes mere panic or depression while sober so much easier to handle. This is a therapeutic effect, even if a particular psychedelic journey I go on is terrifying for whatever reason.

This is a very key understanding, thanks. I think THIS is close to why people seek out huge possibly horrifying doses of psychedelics... it's a kind of "annealing" process http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy) whereby having "been through the fire" under psychedelics, during which EVERYTHING is amplified to be 100X stronger than normal, ordinary trials and tribulations become almost trivial in comparison. THIS, not some masochism, is why people find value in doing huge doses.

Lol, I'm tired about arguing about Freud on here lol Jesus christ! ... Ismene is bugged... Lol, just seem like this comes up every week.

The reason it comes up every week is that Ismene's main goal here is apparently just to prove that he is smarter than everyone else, so he constantly diverts what people are REALLY trying to talk about over to his favorite bitch-about topic so he can slam people with it and "win" the "argument."

(FYI "ego" has a very general meaning of "sense of self." The word existed and was used before Freud was born. It's just FINE that everyone here is using it that way. Ismene's beef is strictly with Freud's very narrow & technical use of the term to refer to HIS very limited and specific construct used in his now-discredited system of psychiatry, *NOT* to the more generalized term used in discussion as here. NO ONE CARES ABOUT FREUD'S REDEFINITION BUT YOU ISMENE! Give it a damn rest, criminey!)

 

[Ismene]

Ismene's main goal here

My goal is like when I read the story "My friend took acid and think he's a glass of orange juice", I'd always mention it isn't true. It takes someone to point out that it's nonsense otherwise it's an easy story to believe. (I believed that story till someone pointed out it wasn't true - and funnily enough the guy who explained it wasn't true had people moaning about it just like you Dwayne)

FYI "ego" has a very general meaning of "sense of self."Ismene's beef is strictly with Freud's

No it's not actually, you've completely missed the point as usual.

The psychedelic use of the word "ego" boils down to Tim Leary dreaming up the term "ego-death" in the 60's to make LSD sound appealing to people who were anti-drugs. It has absolutely no meaning other than as a figment of Tims imagination. There is no such thing as an ego and it doesn't "die" when you take psychedelics. I find it a little disappointing that people are still reduced to describing a trip as an "ego-death" simply because that's the only phrase they feel they can use to describe a strong trip.

whereby having "been through the fire" under psychedelics, during which EVERYTHING is amplified to be 100X stronger than normal, ordinary trials and tribulations become almost trivial in comparison. THIS, not some masochism, is why people find value in doing huge doses.

I can't relate to your idea of psychedelics as this terrifying ordeal Dwayne. To me they are the most beautiful, euphoric emotional, gentle experience imaginable. If taking psychedelics is a trial of fire then I'd stay away from them.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Dwayne and Izzy, unless you have a very long post, it is best to use the edit button to add on to it rather than doubleposting. You've both been around long enough to know this.

Edit: Let's avoid any more ego talk in this thread, and talk up the semantics in the B&D ego-death thread or something like that if we must talk about it.


As I myself have yet to address the OP, sometimes I will indeed be impressed by the psychic strength of a given psych, and seek out a challenging experience to root out what lies in my subconscious and address it, when I think I am ready for/need it. However, on most occasions, I like to keep things in the more assuredly handleable range, as a pneumatic refresher.

By psychic I am referring to the psyche, or intellectual/emotional mind, and pneumatic to the pneuma or spirit. See previous talk about the illusory self and true self, respectively.

 

[Aporia]

Ismene:

in my years of life and thru many people that I have talked with YOU are the ONLY person I have ever come across that has NEVER had a difficult experience with a psychedelic at least on time. Hell most people that I know that love them even agree that some of the best trips they have had included ALL range of thought and emotion. You must either be really special or just not take psychedelic's much.

Sorry for any errors in typing: replying on a phone is difficult.

 

[Ismene]

some of the best trips they have had included ALL range of thought and emotion.

Oh I agree with this - I've done plenty of crying and deep feelings of sadness but just not the terror or seeing it as an ordeal. To me it's cathartic.

replying on a phone is difficult

I admire your phone typing skills aporia

 

[miliefisathand]

as humans we have the ability to scare ourselves silly given the proper context while sober. when one doses i think its like a roller coaster. theres a certain point of no return between consuming your drugs all the way to realizing its too late to void the contents of your tummy or call the benzo man to the rescue. its like, "well shit the ride just started and the six flags operator most definitely wont release me from this harness. time to scream."
haha

as far as mental asswhoopings go, i think that some lessons are best eased into. i wouldn't put a 3 year old in drivers ed. so why would i gobble up 80 tabs of acid before smoking my first blunt.
but everyone is different in terms of spiritual courage and development.

but in the realm of psychedelics that which does not kill you will may put you behind bars or under the constant supervision of mental health personal.

its a risk. but realize this, everyday you live knowing that the unknown can attack you and steal your life, your money, your love. whatever. around the corner could be some jeff jahlmer wannabe who wants you for lunch.
psychedelic experience is a reflection of this quality of life.

but theres a flip side, everyday brings you closer to discovering your true love, your favorite restaurant or a new type of food. you may even win the lottery or discover some earth shattering nobel prize winning idea.
the possibilities in life, and in tripping are endless.

but a mental asswhooping, haha well theres that. in life you gotta pay your dues. ass kickings hurt but they build character.
think of it as paying a tithing so the pursuit of psychonautical truth

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

its a risk. but realize this, everyday you live knowing that the unknown can attack you and steal your life, your money, your love. whatever. around the corner could be some jeff jahlmer wannabe who wants you for lunch.
psychedelic experience is a reflection of this quality of life.

but theres a flip side, everyday brings you closer to discovering your true love, your favorite restaurant or a new type of food. you may even win the lotte
ry or discover some earth shattering nobel prize winning idea.
the possibilit
ies in life, and in tripping are endless.

This is a good point

The survival instinct quits sitting in the background while you carry out your daiy tasks, and instead takes the lead and reminds your conscious mind of all the very real hazards life poses.

Becoming aware of possibilities.

Honestly seems like its advantageous to tune into those instincts....may be overwhelming at the time, but it seems like societal conditioning isn't all harmonious. Getting in tune with those primitive survival drives helps us to see what we really want/need in our lives as opposed to why we've convinced ourselves we need. Lol balance though, too much of those instincts re-integrated into your life and yu start building 2012 bomb shelters lol...too title and one is only a sheep walking down the Babylonian paths with head-in-the-clouds. Part of that 'realness' and animalian feel to a trip is this instinct surfacing and making us like other mammels, super aware and skittish.

Trippy ideas

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

I've had mental arse kickings (c'mon people..its not your 'ass', get it right...its an ARSE:D), that surprisingly were not difficult at all, and instead very, very enjoyable, at the time. I find that they freshen me up, from time to time, and sweep out a load of psychological crap that needed to go. Sort of like cleaning house, sweeping away the cobwebs, and leaving one fresh and ready to take on life with new perspectives and outlooks on oneself and the outside world. methoxetamine is one of the only drugs thats lead to difficult experiences in the way of ++++s that were unexpected and at the time, unwanted when taking it IV. Some of the perceptual changes and psychic confuzzlement were what made them difficult.

One of the only experiences with psychedelics of the 5HT2a agonist type that were unwanted and difficult was a massive overdose of morning glory seeds, where I mistook the number of seeds for GRAMS of seed. That was difficult, and unwanted, although not a ++++. Just fucking terrifying, a 'bad trip', and as far as I remember, the ONLY 'bad trip' I have ever had. Even taking 120-140g of highly potent P.tampanensis truffles, which produced an overwhelming ++++ was enjoyable, for most of it, and valuable. Aside from some imagery where I lived out the life of a WW2 soldier, from the perspectives of both sides of the conflict, none of it was difficult.

As for freud, IMO he was a quack, and subscribed to a load of outdated BS victorian notions about sex, thought people could be cured by treating bits of their noses and severely hurt some of his patients with dodgy surgical treatments. A dick in my book, a completely batshit fraudster and utterly full of shit.

Solipis addendum [I do not wish to bump this thread, but I would like to make something clear]:

I don't mean to censor at this point but as NKB already pointed out, this doesn't necessarily have to boil down to the concept of ego, if it exists or not and if it can be temporarily disabled. As is already said: we have a particular thread for that.
This is not directed at Limpets post but rather about people with seemingly opposing ideas or at least ways to express them. If half of our threads were hijacked by fundamental philosophical, psychological or ontological opinion debates this forum would get pretty sad.
You want to explain a complex point? Invite the one who challenges you to IM personally and report the results in an appropriate thread. That's much more gracious than potentially flooding PD. Just saying this as a general precaution and piece of advice.
Hopefully you can appreciate it!