Thinking about going to a clinic. Methadone?

[processing]

I have already researched the possible negativities involved with Methadone treatment.

I do, however, have some questions of a different sort.

I'll start with a brief background:
I've been on-and-off (but mostly on) opioids for approximately 5 years, with a significant increase in the past 2.
My preference; Oxycodone... until I run out and can't find any -- and then it's Heroin.
Morphine Sulfate and Tramadol have also been used extensively in the past.

I want to stop -- and at this point I've tried, many times on my own. I've been to NA meetings sporadically.

Primary question:
Despite using for quite some time, I am HIGHLY sensitive to opiates (I always have been). Even after months of daily use, I generally work up to only 15-20mg of Oxycodone per day. It was worse when I had no tolerance. 5mg in one dose is enough to produce significantly noticeable effects in me. I once took 10mg of Oxy at once and proceeded to puke between passing out for an entire day.

Would a clinic even accept and dose me? I looked up the conversions and my average dose of Oxy would translate to ~2.5mg of Methadone.

Secondary questions:
There are several Habit Opco's in the area.
Would anyone happen to know if they dose in pill form or liquid?
Would I be forced to take an entire dose at once -- if it were, say, 5 or 10 mg, or more?
Do I need to currently have drugs in my system, or some kind of proof, for them to accept me?

Info: (I am male, late-20s)

 

[theartofwar]

depends on the clinic - when i was on MMT - i had to have been in detox 2x within 6 months and they did blood level tests 2x , once on monday then on friday.

Most MMT will give you liquid as its cheaper - some still use wafers , disolve in water and give you that.

Honestly I think methadone is insanity at the levels of opiates you are saying you use / are sensitive to - methadone is potent as hell. I would look into detox - and maybe a 30 day IOP (intensive outpatient program) or something a long those lines.

 

[suessmayr]

I agree with the above. Your habit is miniscule in an objective sense and I think that if you started taking methadone you would in effect be worsening your addiction.

As to your primary question - I think that the only way you would get on methadone is by lying to a doctor about your sensitivity to opiates. I think that if you were honest, the doc would either: 1) send you to a detox; 2) suggest you start taking buprenorphine instead; or 3) give you some benzos/clonidine/anti-histamines etc.

In my view you should simply detox yourself with some benzos and other non-opiate drugs. Get some valerian and doxylamine.

If you don't feel like this is really possible then you may consider buprenorphine. I would not even consider methadone. I've been on both and methadone is a whole different game. For someone in your position it seems entirely counter-productive. And note - this is not because methadone is euphoric or strong-feeling, but simply because it is a potent opiate. You won't buzz from it for more than like 3 days and then you'll just be in a worse situation than you're in now.

You also need to figure out whether you're genuinely trying to get clean or whether you're simply looking for a more reliable fix. When I started bupe I was just trying to buzz in a more sustainable way. It was the worst decision in my entire life.

As to your second question - I believe that in America the tests for admission are more strict than they are here (Australia). I didn't need to give urine or even describe my history - I simply said that I wanted to go on maintenance. One of the evils of a liberal health system!

 

[theseeker]

Do NOT take methadone with a habit such as yours. I recommend you TAPER yourself down with tramadol- which is a drug you have taken in the past. It's a great medication for tapering but you cannot use anti-depressants when you take it. With a habit like yours, this may be the best way to go. In my opinion, even bupe would be too strong for you. Keep in mind that even during a tramadol taper- you will be a little uncomfortable at first until you get used to it. However, you WILL be able to sleep and function during the day. How much tramadol keeps you comfortable?

 

[paranoid android]

Going on methadone with the dose of opiates you take would be pure insanity and completely counter productive. It's alot easier to taper off a short acting opiate like oxycodone then say methadone or buprenorphine. Not to mention your dose is miniscule (wanna trade tolerances? ) so transferring over to methadone would only raise your tolerance.

I would not recommend tapering with tramadol and the reason for this is tramadol withdrawals can be fucking brutal in how long the WD's last from what i have heard more then a few people say. Also it is a SNRI as well as being a very weak opioid so you also get hit with SNRI withdrawals along with opioid withdrawals and you don't want that. If you can get codeine tapering off using that wouldn't be a bad idea in my person opinion. I have used it to taper off of morphine and dilaudid and it can atleast keep me somewhat comfortable. It's pretty easy to taper from and with your dose you wouldn't be getting hit with the shitty side effects of high dose codeine use.

Remember that none of us on here are doctors so take what we all say with a grain of salt.

 

[Dave]

^Granted, but many people here have a lot more experience with opiate withdrawals than most doctors, other than maybe pain specialists. Lots of good advice here.

 

[suessmayr]

^ Yep, doctors are fucking dipshits when it comes to this sort of thing. I have never once in my entire life spoken to a doctor about this stuff who knew even a fraction of the stuff that even the most retarded bluelighter knows. And importantly, no matter how much a doctor has read about these things, his experience will still be at best academic and indirect; he will not have any subjective knowledge about how these things feel and about what is practically, as opposed to just pharmacologically, manageable.

Your tolerance is so small that maintenance on anything really seems a bit ludicrous. You could do a taper yourself with paracetamol+codeine tablets. That's a luxury most people don't have.

 

[processing]

Thank you all for your insightful responses.

I could have clarified some things, but I didn't want to make my original post too lengthy so that few would read it.

I actually started out on Codeine(C) and Tramadol(T), and then Morphine(M). I've tried tapering with C and T, but they really do nothing for me now (despite sensitivity, I do still have a tolerance and the difference between Oxy and these other opiates is still very noticeable). With T I'm worried about seizures, etc. I've also tried quitting using prescribed Valium, Klonopin, and Ativan... and had no luck.

Although I'm not using high volumes (I've never had to after long daily and hourly use), I can never seem to completely quit. Even if I do temporarily... for a week, even a month... All I think about is getting back on it, and I feel quite horrible until I do. This is mainly why I believe I have a problem.

In regards to "replacing one opiate with another." Essentially, yes. That is pretty much the idea, isn't it? I would rather have someone else in control of how much I take and where it comes from. I don't want street drugs anymore. I'm constantly paranoid I'm getting counterfeit or harmfully adulterated drugs, and these worries are making my life worse because I cannot quit permanently with the way I'm doing things now.

I'm worried about dose partially because I don't want to be completely high off my ass. If possible I'd like to be at the point where I'm functional, not thinking about opiates all day, and not feeling sick/withdrawl. But, if it's not worth it to a clinic and/or they're not willing to give me a lower dose than the average hardcore heroin addict -- it's obviously not an option anyway.

I haven't really looked into Subuxone. I'm not really sure how I'd get it, and I have no insurance. I was told Methadone is not as expensive.

 

[girlgone11]

I wouldn't do it I got on methadone and my tolerance was higher than yours they started me out on 30mgs and i puked for a week and then if you can't afford it anymore or miss some doses you wanna talk about withdrawal cause from methadone i,was in,bad horrible withdrawal for a month and a half i wish i had never gotten on it

 

[sweetnicci07]

You will regret it if you start taking Methadone.....that is how my problem got MUCH worse! I was referred to a clinic in my city by my doctor b/c I was physically & mentally dependent on HYDROCODONE. I thought I should trust him so i went and they started me out at 30mg and took me up to 60mg within <2 weeks. It was waaaay too much for me so I honestly don't remember much about that time. I stayed on it for about 7 months and when I came off of it the withdrawals were 10x more intense than coming off hydrocodone (& I was taking 120mg+ per day) PLUS my tolerance went sky high. I couldn't get a buzz of of my DOC no matter how hard I tried!! I ended up on OC's (taking 240-280mg or more a day). PLEASE DON'T TRY METHADONE!

Maybe Suboxone would be a better choice if you feel like you HAVE to take something.....but I'm sure the same can happen to you with it.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Even thou you are getting a known dose of methadone daily you will eventually start living in fear of missing a dose. Plus most places start you out on code 6 which means you come in 6 days a week, except Sunday. Then every 3 months if you drop clean you get a day. After a year you come in once a week or every 2 weeks, depending on state laws. Some states only allow maximum 3 take home doses a week.

I got off of methadone about 3 months ago using suboxone. Have been off all opiates for almost 3 weeks.

I seriously knew what day of the week it was only because I knew how many bottles I had left. We got hit with a snow storm and they closed the clinic for 3 days. Luckily I didn't have to come in those days, but it made me quit due to fear of something even worse happening. I doubled up on my dose once and OMFG I got hit with the worse w/d in my entire life. Worse than dope.

Just think about the future. Do you want to stay on opiates for the rest of your life or at least several years? Methadone is a commitment. Every morning the first thing you will think about is that bottle or dose.

If you want to keep getting high, methadone will get you high. I was high everyday for the whole year I took it. The high diminished but an hour or two after dosing I could always feel it. Then after I started tapering from 40mg, 1mg per week, I could feel every drop in dose, insomnia, night sweats, leg pain, you name it.

So I said fuck it and quit. Usually you have to wait days after your last dose to even use suboxone or your risk precipitated w/d. My sub doc suggested a strong full agonist for a week. My tolerance was so high that I had to IV dope, no amount snorted would hold me. Then the wait from dope to sub, then sub, then a week or two of tramadol and I'm clean.

So just think of what you will have to do if you decide you have had enough of BS from the clinic. It helps people straighten their lives out. I went on it to carry my baby to term and would do it again, but otherwise no I wouldn't do it again.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Thank you all for your insightful responses.

I could have clarified some things, but I didn't want to make my original post too lengthy so that few would read it.

I actually started out on Codeine(C) and Tramadol(T), and then Morphine(M). I've tried tapering with C and T, but they really do nothing for me now (despite sensitivity, I do still have a tolerance and the difference between Oxy and these other opiates is still very noticeable). With T I'm worried about seizures, etc. I've also tried quitting using prescribed Valium, Klonopin, and Ativan... and had no luck.

Although I'm not using high volumes (I've never had to after long daily and hourly use), I can never seem to completely quit. Even if I do temporarily... for a week, even a month... All I think about is getting back on it, and I feel quite horrible until I do. This is mainly why I believe I have a problem.

In regards to "replacing one opiate with another." Essentially, yes. That is pretty much the idea, isn't it? I would rather have someone else in control of how much I take and where it comes from. I don't want street drugs anymore. I'm constantly paranoid I'm getting counterfeit or harmfully adulterated drugs, and these worries are making my life worse because I cannot quit permanently with the way I'm doing things now.

I'm worried about dose partially because I don't want to be completely high off my ass. If possible I'd like to be at the point where I'm functional, not thinking about opiates all day, and not feeling sick/withdrawl. But, if it's not worth it to a clinic and/or they're not willing to give me a lower dose than the average hardcore heroin addict -- it's obviously not an option anyway.

I haven't really looked into Subuxone. I'm not really sure how I'd get it, and I have no insurance. I was told Methadone is not as expensive.

If you are really sensitive to opiates suboxone will not be all that expensive. 8mg pills at the pharmacy is about $8. Sub is really strong and you can dose with micrograms, they have 200ug doses in Europe. So the pills for you will not cost that much. The doctor visit will be something like $300 for the first one and then 60-100 monthly. You can dissolve each pill/strip in aqueous solution and store it in the fridge and dose a known amount each day. But sub will not get you high at all. Maybe for the first week or two, then it will feel like nothing.

As for methadone the first intake visit where they do labs and shit will be like 150. If you have no income then you might qualify for a state slot but it might take months before your spot on the waiting list gets called. You can pay private which is like $75 per week. And if you are not a patient there, paying privately, those that are patients will get the state slot first. For me it was $10 per week, but I was pregnant and had no income, which is higher priority.

Oh, it is an option to get a lower dose. I was started on 15mg after I saw the doc and told him my history which was sporadic use of opiates, generating very mild w/d which was still dangerous for the baby so methadone was a good option for me. You can always ask for a lower dose, 5-10mg, it really depends on the clinic and mine (2) were cool with that kind of thing.

 

[suessmayr]

I think the OP has misunderstood something - we aren't saying that he should avoid methadone because it's simply 'replacement', but that he should avoid it because it's replacement with something far far worse. Has the OP read about methadone withdrawals? It takes literally months.

It sounds from what I've read like you're able to get past the acute withdrawals but have trouble with PAWS (post-acute withdrawal). If that is true then I think you have an even bigger reason to just try and get clean since it seems you're able to get through half the work yourself.

There have been like 10 replies already telling you not to get on methadone...I don't understand why you're so attracted to the idea? It is important that you understand that methadone is not like oxy - it is extremely long acting and not at all euphoric. After about 3 days on methadone you won't even feel it anymore and you'll just be addicted to an opiate that is about 10x harder to come off.

 

[cire113]

Dude your insane if your thinking about methadone or even suboxone for that matter.. unless you take crumbs of suboxone to taper...

Let me just say it can get much deeper and darker than your current situation