• The Dark Side 💕 Welcome Guest 💕
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads Urgent Hotlines
    Bereavement Mindfulness
    Suicide Support Anger Management
  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

The world after PST - what's going to happen?

Z

ZaphodBeeblebrox

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
51
Location
Locked in
So the rogue honey badger that sometimes sleeps in my garbage can had a daily 2#+ PST habit for about 15 months that she just quit 2 weeks ago. She made it through the WDs (with shocking ease which she thinks is due to her diligent detox routine - and a daily GABAPENTIN dosage - or dumb luck) and she's wondering when some other things will go back to normal.

She's read that PST and other drugs in it's class cause loss of muscle mass. Will her naturally bad ass (especially the ass) muscular form return? She lifts weights but hasn't been able to really see the same gains as pre-PST. She used to actually be annoyed on how easily her body put on muscle but now is wondering if she can even tone her thighs ever again.

She also knows the real reason her cycle has been totally off for the past 15 months. She has read this will also return to normal, but she's curious to know what the timing is like. 1 month? 2 months?

She has to live with what she's done to herself, but having an idea of when these things will return to normal would provide a light at the end of the tunnel. What else can she look forward to? Short term memory returning?  Other good things she can't remember right now?

She's conducted endless google searches on this but can't ever find anything past acute withdrawal, PAWS or rehab clinics. Maybe the good people of bluelight who she's relied on and silently stalked for years will provide some guidance.

Honey badger don't care
 
Last edited:
Hey hun, just to let you know, we don't use SWIM and similar types of non self incrimination methods. You can read the bluelight user agreement for more specifics, but the gist is that you should just talk naturally. :)

With that out of the way, congratulations on getting off PST. For the most part, your body should pretty much get back to normal over the next couple months. I wouldn't be too worried about that. Opioids usually don't cause much long term damage to your body directly in the way that say, alcohol or amphetamines do.

The bigger question is probably psychological, you can probably expect some degree of depression or similar negative emotions from post acute withdrawal syndrome (paws). It still sucks, but hopefully knowing to expect that it might happen will help you remember that it's temporary. It can last for some time, several months, etc, but most people eventually get back to normal over time.

It's the psychological side that's difficult, staying off drugs in the long term when life inevitably has its bad times.

I can't speak entirely from first hand experience, I was on IV heroin for a long time, but not too long ago I got off it by going on methadone, not detox. Which still isn't exactly painless, but it's probably a lot less painful.

Hopefully there'll be other people who've been in situations that more directly mirror yours who can give you a closer idea what to expect. What I would say, that I think is probably pretty universal, is to just keep trying to do the best you can. We can't ever take back our mistakes unfortunately, we just gotta accept them and do the best we can to move forward and not repeat them. One thing I've tried to do that you might experience, is trying to make right with people I hurt while using. But different people will have different experiences.

Good luck, I hope anything I said helped. And if no ones said it yet, welcome to bluelight. :)
 
Thanks for the reply, I do try to maintain that my body will return to normal I guess i'm just looking for a timeline you know? Can't seem to find anything and was curious if someone here had an idea. I do know about this SWIM thing, I just thought that was funnier ;)

Getting off heroin regardless of how you do it is a win in my opinion, snaps for you! Detox is hell as you likely know, but little steps in the right direction are better than staying on any of this shit.

The psychological side definitely is rough, but surprisingly this time I don't have any anxiety or depression. Whether it is the gabapentin helping or maybe a placebo - if it ain't broke don't fix it. Life definitely is a bit more boring, but i'm trying to focus on doing other things instead of just getting high and ... what did I even do? Random shit and none of it really helped me drive towards my goals or improve my life, honestly it was a lot of time wasting. But whatever, shit happens right?

BTW BeachBum - PST is poppy seed tea ;)
 
No problem!

Well I guess other users weren?t nearly as entertained by my alter-ego honey badgering as I was (I?m funny!)

But since I?ve already got this thread going I?ll just keep on keepin' on here. I?m bummed and disappointed.

So, I was a few days short of my 4 week mark from quitting the tea when it kinda all went to shit. I made it through the WDs pretty well, zero RLS (I like to think of it as the devils tickle), some night sweats, yadda yadda, didn?t get deeply depressed or anxious as usual and was refocusing my addictive tendencies on working out because hey, it?s the best high anyway, right?

For reference - not an excuse nor am I looking for sympathy - I?ve had this lower back sports injury for 10+ years, which doesn't isn't normally warranting medication daily (but oh as for so many others, that's how this love affair started), but it does flare up from time to time. When it does (sometimes 4 months later, other times 4 years later), as it did last week it?s bad. At it's (last August) it was a 10/10 on the scale, with 10 being childbirth. It was the one and only time in my life I have ever had to call 911 or take Fentanyl. Of course they're these 5 super hot EMTs that break into my bedroom (giggity), give me a shot and haul me out on a stretcher. This only happens after going through my skivvies drawer in an attempt to make me halfway decent, as I?d gotten up to pee then rushed back to bed as one side of my back contracted like I was in labor. I am truly, horribly, and completely terrified of that pain. It?s like having someone wrap their hand around your spinal chord and try to tear it from your body, only taking breaks every 10-15 seconds to tighten their grip.

Anyway. This time was not that bad, but it was bad enough to not be able to walk for a day, to start on 10mg muscle relaxers, get a Toradol shot (an NSAID & injectable gold), AND 5mg Oxys. 4 days go by and another muscle goes out since by body is totally crooked, so I get another shot and start a 6-day Prednisone steroid cycle (first time I?ve been offered and tried that option). 8 days later with steroids in full effect I?m feeling better physically, but am depressed as hell taking gabapentin and kratom to lift my spirits with no avail. Why not just let a bad day be a bad day you say? Well after an assload of pain, muscle relaxers that make me murderously angry, the god damn Oxy (sorry but Painkillers are only fun when you?re not in pain) and steroids fucking with every last drop of feel good chemical my brain still produces, I just just couldn't do another bad day.

So I order a 5# bag of my favorite brand of seeds and expedite the shipping. Of course feel better the next day and take the last 2 Oxy I have (it had been 3 days since any other opiate) then last night wake up with cold sweats at 3am and can?t go back to sleep. I?m like WTF if I was going to withdraw from the Oxy why didn?t it happen 2 days ago? Fuck you, you fucking fuck body! As if leaving me laying there like a passed out drunk on the street isn?t bad enough, you decide to take a piss on my face too?

Now I?m here venting because I?m so god damn mad at myself (and in general really) for being so weak and am terrified that this is heading right back to where I was 5 weeks ago - or a year ago with another emergency room visit. I don?t seem to possess the ability to just hold on to this stuff without doing it nor will I throw it away and lose that money I just spent - I know I can do both but also know I won?t. The only positive thing about all these doctor visits was a new provider with whomI discussed physical therapy and counseling. Not because I admitted to my long term recreational opiate use but because I drank for a long time before I realized PST is much more fun and - so far - hasn't caused any of the social/family problems booze did.

Here's what i'm wondering now:

A) Will I withdraw again if I do the rest of this bag, which is probably like 2 doses and 65%-75% of what I was doing 5 weeks ago but still over a pound daily
B) How much of a setback will this be for me in the physical recovery I mentioned above? I know it will not make abstaining in the future any easier
C) If the therapist I see is in the same medical center as the new provider and I embark on the long tale of my opiate use, will that information be communicated to medical barring me from getting medication when it's really needed for my back?

I know being injured is not an excuse and I am not using it as one, I?m simply shedding light on the massive bump in the road to sobriety. I wish I could do the two things that really make me feel better mentally and physically (working out & sex) but I still think I?m at least another week out from either. I?ll also mention that I don?t fake flare ups to get pills since I can get my drug of choice in the mail overnight whenever I want. I ask the question about disclosure truly because I want to work on my history of drug and alcohol use while not lose access to the only ?treatment? regimen I?ve been offered and found that worked. Not that there aren't others of course, in fact I really think this doctor seems to care so I?d like to stay with them to get a diagnosis. They say 15 doctors will give you 15 different opinions and for me that's been doctors, physical therapists, massage therapists, chiropractors, etc. etc.

Thanks for reading
 
Last edited:
Here's the most important thing - you're REALLY beating yourself up over something that's honestly completely normal. OK, so you slipped; exactly how many people do you think manage to quit their opioid addiction on the first try? Did you guess zero? DINGDINGDINGDING!!

Seriously, relapse is a bit unfortunate, sure. But it IS entirely normal. This goes for quitting smoking and probably most other drugs too. I've read enough literature on the subject over the years to know that you're actually making it WORSE by being so harsh with yourself. Just because you had a bit of a slip does NOT mean that you're never going to be able to quit! Any knowledgable doctor or addiction counselor will tell you that relapse is entirely normal, and is to be expected. Obviously you should try not to, but if you do, just realize that it's not the end of the world and that there are currently MILLIONS of people in the world going through the same thing.

If you really want to quit, you will. Everybody takes a different amount of time, and you shouldn't feel bad if you relapse once, twice or fifty times; it doesn't mean you'll never be able to quit, I promise.

To answer your questions,

A) Yes, if you take opiates again and stop, you'll probably withdraw. It's impossible to say without knowing your exact dose, strength of the seeds, your physiology, length of time going without etc. but the best way to feel better the quickest is to stay clean if possible. If not, see above.

B) Again, see above

C) It's definitely possible that going on-record with your addiction will preclude you from painkillers in the future, depending on the doctor and the degree of pain, of course. If you have an obvious, 10/10 childbirth-like pain that's literally intolerable, I very much doubt they will let you just suffer with nothing...but having a doctor who is aware of your situation is actually a good thing in the long run.

I just want to make one last comment...one thing that really stuck out to me about your situation is that you REALLY have something huge going for you here, and that is your level of activity, exercise and love of working out. You're not dwelling alone in a dark basement, letting every aspect of the withdrawal devour your body and soul like some people I know..(ahem). That's what *I* need to work on, but that's why you should trust me when I tell you that you are honestly, truthfully in a VERY GOOD position to quit. I know you probably won't want to hear this, but your withdrawals (while still horrible and agonizing, I know) could be a lot worse if you were taking stronger opiates or injecting. Try to look on the bright side as much as you possibly can, and best of luck to you!!

P.S. I thought the honey-badger thing was hilarious. Seriously.
 
Last edited:
One important thing to note is that every time you withdraw and then start again, you'll become physically dependent again faster and the withdrawals will be worse. That said, don't beat yourself up, I was addicted to opiates for 10 years and I quit and relapsed so many times. Eventually every single day I broke my promise to myself that it was my last day. I once quit for 8 months and decided to try again "just once" and before I knew it I was back to every day... I also experienced minor withdrawals after the first use. My first withdrawal, I was using daily for a month and didn't have withdrawals, after a couple of months of near-daily I experienced a few days of shittiness, but it was over quick and I felt fine. But I didn't learn my lesson... and had almost 10 more years of addiction that got increasingly darker and more traumatic/life consuming.

I actually told my doctor that I had been addicted to opiates for 10 years but recently quit, one time shortly after I quit for good, because I broke my hand and he was going to write me a prescription for opiates. I didn't take them, and I'm sure he noted it in my medical records but I did it on purpose because I didn't want to ever allow myself that doorway back into addiction.
 
I feel like I want your user name to be Honey Badger.;) Anyway, hello and welcome to Bluelight!

I want to echo what everyone else here has already said about relapse: it is understandable and sometimes even beneficial (you learn your soft spots).

One thing that I believe is that we all "relapse" all the time in any number of our own unhealthy habits but the only ones people seem to beat themselves up for are drug relapses. You'll get back on track and with more knowledge than you had previously.<3
 
To everyone who posted on this thread, thank you. Slipping up is normal and I am incredibly fortunate to have sports to carry me through acute withdrawal (which hasn’t been that bad...again...the three other times I’ve done it since posting here).

Im on around week 2 now (or so), have been forced/am trying to stop since my normal supplier has been out of business temporarily.

Guess this is the harder part a few people mentioned, guess people cause it PAWS. I can’t stop thinking of getting more whether that be seeds or pills, it’s on my mind CONSTANTLY and I can’t seem to enjoy things for more than a few hours without getting depressed and/or mad..

I truthfully came on to the site today to see if anyone knew of a new/alternate supplier, have combed CL and other sites for spots to buy pills, have complained about my back to people I know mentioned an Rx recently to see if they’d volunteer their stash. None of it worked, and honestly I’m not about to try to buy from someone online or resort to robbing someone. Ha ha....I’ve considered it... so instead I’m writing on my thread and reaching out if anyone is around.

The comments on multiple quitting attempts are so true, because stupid me I get a few weeks into sobriety and think “oh it’s been long enough, I can do just one!” Then like 2 months go by and I’m doing a full taper and quit again. I did however also absorb the comments on the advantage of my active lifestyle. I’ve used sports (specifically 2 day soccer tournaments) in the past to speed up my detox from pills and it definitely helps a lot. The problem though is I go too hard and overdo it, leaving my body sore as hell and me feeling totally unable to get off the couch I’m so tired. Guess it’s not the worst thing in the world, I’ll stop complaining about that now.

Anyhoo... ideas on when the lack of enjoyment of sober life will end? Just trying to break through the clouds and get a glimpse of the light at the end of the tunnel.

On a positive note actually. All the stuff I mentioned in my first post has gone back to normal already, despite my on and off use over the past few months - so that’s good. Now just gotta get my head straight and maybe it’ll stick this time.

again, love the support. Thank you all!

Gotta go, honeybadger hates the world right now and is about to go nuclear on some fucking cyclist that just blew through a red light, almost taking her out while walking through the crosswalk to eat some particularly delicious looking roadkill. Gotta go save that old white dude.

-Honeybadger don’t care
 
Ugh I?m craving so hard, when will it stop! I?ll take anything to not be sober. Stupid brain.

Trying to channel into sports but having a hard time, and it?s only been 3 weeks...

- Honeybadger don?t care
 
Cravings are the hardest part. You gotta fill your life with things to replace opiates, things that make you feel good, things you're excited about, things to fill your time. Boredom is the worst when trying to recover from addiction. Also if you haven't already, start exercising regularly, because it will produce endorphins which are the body's natural opiates, and it really helps.
 
Shadowmeister said:
Cravings are the hardest part. You gotta fill your life with things to replace opiates, things that make you feel good, things you're excited about, things to fill your time. Boredom is the worst when trying to recover from addiction. Also if you haven't already, start exercising regularly, because it will produce endorphins which are the body's natural opiates, and it really helps.
Click to expand...


Thanks Shadowmeister for replying, I?ve been feeling like I?m screaming into the void here lately. This is my only outlet to talk about what I?m going through, as I can?t tell the therapist I?ve been seeing (as I mentioned above have a bad back injury that flares from time to time, causing 10/10 childbirth level pain, and I don?t want to cut myself off from opiates when they?re really NEEDED. I don?t fake a flare up for pills, so I want to keep this option open), and no one else in the world knows that I?ve been doing this for, what now is 15 months (I think). So yes, exercise is definitely my #1, I?m an athlete and love working out so I?m doing like 4-5 days of exercise per week which totally helps.

But that as you know isn?t enough, and idle hands are dangerous at this point. I?ve been watching a lot of ted talks on opiate addiction to learn more, and found that within the first 30 days of quitting, 80% of people relapse - which is probably why I have never made it past the 3 week mark before (which I?m 3 weeks and 1 day in at this point). Guess I need to give myself a small pat on the back for that, right?

One thing I noticed is spending time with friends is really helpful. Again no one knows, so i can have conversations about other things which really helps me see through the cravings and that there are other things to life besides drugs (surprise surprise). So I?ve been doing that, also reading more about current events, beefing up my client list, listening to ted talks and watching videos on the opiate empedemic (I always do this when quitting, don?t really know why to be honest) and posting here when it?s really bad etc etc, but I?m still having REALLY hard days. Those days I spend time looking at online pharmacies, thinking out a strategy to anonymously buy pills online, research where I could get them locally.... I?m being honest here because anything else is a waste of my time.

I?m not sure what else I should do, I have this drive to be a garbage can for any drugs or alcohol I can get my hands on right now and it?s been a long time since I felt like that. I?ve drank some over the past week for the first time in years (used to drink a lot so I?m trying to not go back to that - didn?t quit quit but cut it down to once or twice every month or two), but don?t know what else to do.

If anyone has any other ideas I?m totally open, especially for the evening.

- Honeybadger don?t care
 
Yeah friend time is great, it gets your mind off of yourself to hang out with cool people. Do you have any hobbies? I started playing music again when I got off opiates, which I hadn't done for 12 years, and it ended up being the missing element from my life. It helped me a lot to be able to focus my idle time on something that provides an even better high than opiates. But it could be anything, the idea is just to fill your time with activities that you enjoy rather than boredom. Boredom is where the cravings are worst.

The more clean time you get, the less cravings you'll have. Especially as you restructure your life to fill that void with other things. :)
 
Hi again!!

Yes, I actually do have a number of hobbies, though most not daily. So besides sports and the gym of course, I like to garden (but it?s fall so there?s not much I can plant), paint rocks and small model doors to put in the garden (like in the Stephen king gunslinger series), I got a PlayStation but no good games right now (was disappointed with the redundance of shadow of the colossus).

I have been actually thinking a lot about reading some career development books, but then I get all energized and into it, and like last night can?t sleep until 3:30. Guess periodic insomnia is to be expected at this point... I actually have a really good Stephen king that?s sat at my bedside for a month without being touched.

I have a dog who could use more trips to the park, like to rollerblade with her (she?s a Siberian husky so pulling me on blades is in her blood) - I haven?t done that in a while - and I love writing with calligraphy pens and practice is helpful. Oh shit I forgot, BASKETBALL SEASON is starting! I had minimal interest last season which was weird for me, but I think that?s because I was high the whole time.....all season........now I?m quitting at the start of the following season...........wow. Anyway I like fantasy betting and usually put 1-3 lineups in per game when my team plays (at the minimum). I got a new app that lets me watch all the NBA games so I might start betting a lot more since I can watch the other games too. Lol watch I come back in 12 months for support on a gambling addiction. Not likely when you?re only betting 0.25/bet but yeah so that takes up a lot of my time once the season starts.

I guess now that I?ve thought about it a bit, I do have a decent number of hobbies I could pick up again. Maybe even consider adding some new ones, which I haven?t done in years. It?s the hard days like yesterday where you?re bouncing off the walls with a craving that?s really hard to manage.

I?ve actually been considering taking up smoking weed. Never been a fan, I freak out sometimes if smoking too much (which is more than 1 toke lol...do people even say toke anymore?) but recenetly during one of my garbage can days tried my team mates vape pen thing and really really liked it! I might get my own pen and try that, won?t hurt, right? I live in a state where it?s now 100% legal, so that?s not an issue.

Thanks for the comments again, it?s nice to be heard and supported by someone else who has been there.

- Honeybadger don?t care
 
Well in case anyone was looking for an update here, it?s been a bit over 3 months and I?m definitely feeling better (yes and no!).

The hard physical stuff is long gone (I.e. watery eyes, sneezing, diarrhea, etc.) but the mental impact is still very much around. I?ve had trouble off and on for a while being able to sleep, have had anxiety go up and down (it?s gone way down and way up) - then again I?ve always had anxiety at varying levels so I?m not sure that?s saying much really.

Overall I?ve slipped a few times (of course) but have finally gotten to the point of feeling good sober so doing seeds or pills kinda fucks up my rhythm, and I just don?t like it as much. It?s weird actually this is the first time in I don?t even know how many years that I?ve been able to have pills in the house without doing them all within the first 2 days of getting them. That said I?d like to point out the times I HAVE slipped with seeds, I went into pretty intense withdrawal after only 2-3 days of using my old amount. Not sure if that?s because my body is freaking out or it?s too much after having none - I?ve even felt mild withdrawal after taking pills for only 2 days (6-7 per day). Also with pills the high just isn?t nearly as good as seeds, so why even bother? This is an entirely new outlook for me, first time it?s been that way in over 10 years, and all it took is a few months sober (for me - SO FAR).

So at this point I have to say things are going really well. I did want to ask though if anyone had an idea of timelines for your brain to go back to normal in case my anxiety is being exacerbated by, what PAWS I guess (also still wishing my muscle tone would return to normal!). I know it all depends on how long you used and how requently blah blah blah, but I figured I?d try!

Since I was a lurker for years and years on this site before trying to quit and posting, I?ll say this. Quitting any opiate SUCKS, however just keep in mind there?s a light at the end of the tunnel. It DOES get better, although it does seem like it won?t after a while.

On PST I came completely out of the woods with the physical stuff after about 2.5-3 weeks. Yes, that?s a daunting amount of time, but drinking tea perpetually isn?t sustainable so might as well get it over with. When you do stop, you will notice everything in your life getting better and although it may not seem like it at first just keep on keepin on, focus on just being comfortable and staying positive at the beginning, and again, know that it, as everything else negative that?s ever happened in your life, will too pass.

Cheers in case anyone bothered to read,

- Honeybadger don?t care
 
Hey there! Thanks for the update. That's awesome you're doing better. I will say that doing opiates from time to time is certainly prolonging this. You're definitely in PAWS right now, where the acute withdrawals are done but your opiate receptors/endorphin system have not fully recovered. This period is characterized by unstable mood, transient anxiety, periods of discomfort that are not nearly as strong as acute withdrawal, and often, anhedonia. It lasts a lot longer than acute withdrawals usually.

Regarding using opiates, when you've already been addicted to something, there is an effect known as "kindling" when you use those drugs again in the future. Basically your body is primed to be addicted to opiates now. I was on and off (mostly on) opiates for 10 years and by the end I would get withdrawal from one single use of poppy tea (PST was also my opiate of choice), even if I had gotten all the way through withdrawal. Any time I did any, it gave me light withdrawals and then prolonged the PAWS. If possible you really should try to firmly implant the idea in your head that doing opiates is just off the table. Especially while you're in PAWS, you're just going to keep prolonging PAWS and not get past it unless you stay away entirely. I eventually just reached a sense of peace that I could never do opiates again. Now it's been 5 years and it's not a struggle anymore, I hardly ever even think about opiates and my life is way better because of it. So there is light at the end of the tunnel.

But don't be discouraged because it's great progress that you've made. :)
 
Shadowmeister said:
If possible you really should try to firmly implant the idea in your head that doing opiates is just off the table. :)
Click to expand...

Nooooooo! Lol. Thanks for replying, I?ve been kinda getting the sense that I overdid it and it?s over now. I don?t enjoy them as I once did, my tolerance seems to be so high because of the tea that nothing else compares, and the tea itself just isn?t that great anymore because I realize how badly it hurts my body and the timeline to recover even from taking a little sucks.

So yeah I also thought it could be PAWS. Transient anxiety seems like the perfect way to put it, and anhedonia is also completely accurate in my case. I guess I?m just wondering when my body and brain will recover. My muscle tone hasn?t returned, I started taking an antidepressant which has helped with the anxiety (and made it blaringly obvious I was/am actually depressed as well), but besides that everything is normal again - better than normal with some things actually.

I?m workout out consistently to deal with the anxiety (helps with depression too of course) but of course am worried I?m going to feel like this forever. I know no one can say how long it will take....I used too long consistently to think I?d be out of the woods in a few months only I guess.

Thanks again for replying, I?m tempted to just start drinking tea again to feel happy, but know that?s not sustainable and I?ll just have to start over when I quit again.

Sigh. I made my bed and now I have to sleep in it!

Question. Do you think using Kratom could also be prolonging the PAWS?...

- Honeybadger don?t care
 
One last thought. I do find myself with periodic (sometimes a few times a day, sometimes only a few times a week) feelings of happiness that?s characterized by a warmth in my gut, if that makes sense at all.

Think that?s my brain kickstarting it?s own feel good chemical production again? I sure hope it is...
 
Yes kratom is an opiate so you're surely prolonging things. Do you use it every day? If so you might have withdrawals from kratom, you should make sure you don't.

This definitely won't last forever, though it feels like it. PAWS is a pain in the ass and it's harder than a lot of people expect. But your body and mind will normalize in time. You really should try to go without the kratom or other opiates, it's just providing you temporary relief and then dragging it along.

Day by day you'll get better. There are ups and down. I'd say that other than exercising, the most important thing you could do is try to fill your time with things you enjoy, make sure to fill the void that opiates left with something besides opiates. Also be aware that you're on an antidepressant which is sounds like is new so that's also going to affecting how you feel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top