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the word fuck...

]ßr3@K[

Bluelighter
Joined
May 16, 2001
Messages
22
is not poetic. . . you shouldn't have to resort to using vulgarity to paint a proper image of pain or anger. . . I appologize for ranting, as I'm only a "Greenlighter". I know that my poetry sucks a nut, but it bothers me when people are praised for "Powerful Words" when they hit you with embarassment, or disgust more than the true pain or emotion you're trying to convey... Argh. The word fuck is as poetic as shitbrain or cunthacker.
[This message has been edited by ]ßr3@K[ (edited 30 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by ]ßr3@K[ (edited 30 May 2001).]
 
uh, powerful words
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The best thing about poetry is that it is free, free from the constraints of structure, the censership of words and able to be in any content you wish.
If you feel that using FUCK is necessary, then us the word FUCK!
[This message has been edited by Crow (edited 31 May 2001).]
 
I disagree.
quite a number of my poems contain the word Fuck.
Every word evokes certain emotions in a person when they hear/read it. Fuck is another word and it has the power to evoke emotion in the audience just like any other word.
I disagree with overuse of the word. It certainly has acceptable limits. But there really is no other word like it. So long as it is used purposefully for a reason with the constraints of the poem/prose then I have no problem with it.
Just my 2c
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http://users.bigpond.net.au/rudeness
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while im at it
some people might find the use of extremely large bold red writing quite pathetic and tasteless too.
you say that we should be able to make our point without the word Fuck.
You should be able to make your point without large bold red writing.
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http://users.bigpond.net.au/rudeness
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Fuck actually stands for Fornication Under Consent of the King. I can't remember which king, but a long long time ago due to over population and famine sex was banned. To have children you would have had to get consent from the king, you would then hang a sign on your door with the letters F.U.C.K on, denoting that you where having sex legally.
What is so offensive about this word?
 
Popular etymologies agree, unfortunately incorrectly, that this is an acronym meaning either Fornication Under Consent of the King or For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. The latter usually accompanying a story about how medieval prisoners were forced to wear this word on their clothing.
Deriving the etymology of this word is difficult, as it has been under a taboo for most of its existence and citations are rare. The earliest known use, according to American Heritage and Lighter, predates 1500 and is from a poem written in a mix of Latin and English and entitled 'Flen flyys.' The relevant line reads:
"Non sunt in celi quia fuccant uuiuys of heli."
Translated:
"They [the monks] are not in heaven because they fuck the wives of Ely [a town near Cambridge]."
Fuccant is a pseudo-Latin word and in the original it is written in cipher to further disguise it.
Ayto mentions the word's use in 1278 as a personal name, John le Fucker , but fails to provide a citation. The earliest usage cite in the OED2 dates from 1503 and is in the form 'fukkit.' The earliest cite of the current spelling is from 1535.
The word was not in common (published) use prior to the 1960s. Shakespeare did not use it, although he did hint at it for comic effect. In Merry Wives of Windsor (IV.i) he gives us the pun "focative case." In Henry V (IV.iv), the character Pistol threatens to "firk" a French soldier, a word meaning "to strike," but commonly used as an Elizabethan euphemism for fuck. In the same play (III.iv), Princess Katherine confuses the English words "foot" and "gown" for the French "foutre" and "coun" (fuck and cunt, respectively) with comic results. Other poets did use the word, although it was far from common. Robert Burns, for example, used it in an unpublished manuscript.
The taboo was so strong that for 170 years, from 1795 to 1965, fuck did not appear in a single dictionary of the English language. In 1948, the publishers of The Naked and the Dead persuaded Norman Mailer to use the euphemism "fug" instead, resulting in Dorothy Parker's comment upon meeting Mailer: "So you're the man who can't spell fuck."
The root is undoubtedly Germanic, as it has cognates in other Northern European languages: Middle Dutch fokken meaning to thrust, to copulate with; dialectical Norwegian fukka meaning to copulate; and dialectical Swedish focka meaning to strike, push, copulate, and fock meaning penis. Both French and Italian have similar words, foutre and fottere respectively. These derive from the Latin futuere.
While these cognates exist, they are probably not the source of fuck, rather they probably come from a common root. Most of the early known usages of the English word come from Scotland, leading some scholars to believe that the word comes from Scandinavian sources. Others disagree, believing that the number of northern citations reflects that the taboo was weaker in Scotland and the north, resulting in more surviving usages. The fact that there are citations, albeit fewer of them, from southern England dating from the same period seems to bear out this latter theory.
There is also an elaborate explanation that has been circulating on the internet for some years regarding English archers, the Battle of Agincourt, and the phrase Pluck Yew! This explanation is a modern jest--a play on words. However, there may be a bit of truth to it. The British (it's virtually unknown in America) gesture of displaying the index and middle fingers with the back of the hand outwards (a reverse peace sign)--meaning the same as displaying the middle finger alone--may derive from the French practice of cutting the fingers off captured English archers. Archers would taunt the French on the battlefield with this gesture, showing they were intact and still dangerous. The pluck yew part is fancifully absurd. This is not the origin of the middle finger gesture, which is truly ancient, being referred to in classical Greek and Roman texts.
 
I have to agree with Crow on this. The word "fuck," in and of itself, is powerful when used properly. Properly, in this sense, is left to the creative direction of the writer. It is subjective.
I got into a debate with someone not too long ago about poetry competitions and how it was incorrect to call one piece of writing "better" than another. You just can't do it. Poetry is about expression of one's feelings through the use of language. When a written piece invokes a certain emotion in oneself, it can most definitely invoke a different emotion in someone else as well. I feel the same things apply to this word. "Fuck" may be vulgar, but to who? Who's to say that the writer isn't using this word on purpose, to let the reader feel his/her frustrations?
"Fuck," in contemporary language, can be interpreted to emote many different things: Base Carnality, Violence, Anger, Frustration, Joy, Indifference, etc.
Sure it loses its effect if used too frequently, but the same conditions apply to any expletive, phrase, or symbol.
Just my fucking two cents.
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Actually. I don't really have that much of a problem with using swears in poetry. I was just in a really bad mood and a my ex had written a poem that overused the word. I'm sorry for venting. I do believe that when used in moderation, or even repeatedly but with purpose, it is not such a terrible word.
My appologies.
 
Please Note: I am a hypocritical goon. My newest poem starts with a swear. I would like to formally retract this rant. However, I would like to leave it here, because I really like the red font.
 
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