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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: tryptakid | Foreigner

The UK in the EU: "Brexit"

Whatever. Moving on.

If anyone is interested I recommend watching last nights Question Time on the BBC, available on iplayer (if you're outside the UK you can get it by other means). Its clear when anyone talks about the remain argument on that program that they don't have a leg to stand on.. it's all about money and fear. Or in the case of Paddy Ashdown last night, "name me one respected institution that backs brexit".. as if consensus peer pressure were a legitimate reason. There's a monopoly on remain, for financial and political reasons.. all the big institutions back remain, not because its the right thing to do, but because they're self-serving arseholes. Like Paddy Ashdown.
 
-=SS=- said:
Whatever. Moving on.

If anyone is interested I recommend watching last nights Question Time on the BBC, available on iplayer (if you're outside the UK you can get it by other means). Its clear when anyone talks about the remain argument on that program that they don't have a leg to stand on.. it's all about money and fear. Or in the case of Paddy Ashdown last night, "name me one respected institution that backs brexit".. as if consensus peer pressure were a legitimate reason. There's a monopoly on remain, for financial and political reasons.. all the big institutions back remain, not because its the right thing to do, but because they're self-serving arseholes. Like Paddy Ashdown.
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How about you provide a link for us, so we don't just have to take your less than trustworthy word?

Try to be unbiased in your contribution for once. I doubt you really want people to watch that video, you just want to pretend like your side owns the positive content. Neo-cons and right extremists/nationalists. Look at SS's name ffs, and what he has posted in the past people, he is a flaming right wing nationalist/racist.

Before you say, "what is wrong with that?". You pretend to be some moderate Brit who is on the side of reason until someone actually confronts your points, which is when your true nature comes out. You have written so much hate in the past. I have some time today if you want me to go digging, let me know.
 
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Oh christ here we go again.. "His name is SS he must be a Nazi!". It's no wonder the arguments you people put forward are so shallow when you're able to only recognize the surface of things. My username is SS because those are my initials, end of story.

How about you bloody google BBC Question Time and do it yourself. Why is it my responsibility to save you 30 seconds of your time. If you desire to know the truth about something you'll damn well put in the effort.

The BBC Question Time programme tends to be populated by a left-wing audience and a panel of speakers who are more often than not pro-EU. But even now they can't contain it.. the audience is getting more and more fed up, besides the odd idiot who consistently repeats the "At the end of the day.. EU.. wallet.. money.. good thing".

And finally, I'm not going to address a non-point from Alaisdarm. There was no point; he's just shit stirring because that's the extent of his debating ability. If he actually raises a point worth debating, I'll debate it. Grammar, spelling, use of words, debating those things are what university students do who have no substance in their heads to actually debate the points on the table.


EDIT: Youtube --> Question Time.
It's on there. Happy?
 
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My uncle raised a good point today about Obama - Why does anyone care what this had-been president thinks? We should be far more interested in the views of the next in line, Trump.
 
-=SS=- said:
And finally, I'm not going to address a non-point from Alaisdarm. There was no point...
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you made a claim - that obama is two-faced (i.e. deliberately inconsistent) on the issue of britain in europe. i refuted the claim by stating that he's on record, has actually been very consistent on the issue and provided an example.

that obama is a cunt is an opinion and one to which you are certainly entitled. but don't get your panties in a bunch when you make a claim and you're easily proved wrong.

alasdair
 
Bite me. You know exactly what I meant, given the context was contained within my post - if the tables were reversed he would be having none of it. That is being two faced. Stop splitting hairs you insufferable twat.
 
-=SS=- said:
if the tables were reversed he would be having none of it.
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when your criticism is based on something somebody hasn't even done, whose argument is shallow?

and no need for the ad-homs. they just further demonstrate that your position is weak.

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
when your criticism is based on something somebody hasn't even done, whose argument is shallow?
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The whole premise of my argument, and it's not just mine.. the media have all pointed out the same inescapable truth.. if the tables were reversed and we were lecturing him/America, he (and America) would have absolutely none of it! Anyone with any intelligence knows this to be the case.. it doesn't need to actually happen for us to know this is true. America is absolutely steeped in the belief of value in democracy, sovereignty and self-determination.. it's what the USA is most known for globally. It's woven right into the fabric of what America is and stands for.

Again, it is two-faced to come here and lecture us about staying in the EU, knowing full well it is an undemocratic federal superstate, AND that if we vote to remain we will actually be agreeing to further and fuller political union, whilst at the same time without a shadow of a doubt he would reject the same assertions if the tables were reversed. It doesn't need to happen for us to know that it is true.

You don't need to actually act both parts to be two-faced. Merely acting one way whilst holding the opposite conviction in your heart is two-faced.
 
The UK could take up to 10 years to negotiate trade deals with the US if it leaves the EU, Barack Obama has said.
In a BBC interview, the US president said: "It could be five years from now, 10 years from now before we were able to actually get something done."
It came a day after he said the UK would be at "the back of the queue" for US trade deals in the case of Brexit.
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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36120808

Business as usual. In 5-10 years. That is a rrrrreally long time in today's economic environment, and as we know time = money. How much leverage would a tiny Britain even have in 5-10 years. LOL.

This is pretty much an example of a guy's buddies telling him, "Hey man, after those two bars of xanax, 4 pints, and 4 shots you really shouldn't get behind the wheel". Guy is like, "Hesh, mn, schtahp wit de scur tactix".
 
Shimmer.Fade said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36120808

Business as usual. In 5-10 years. That is a rrrrreally long time in today's economic environment, and as we know time = money. How much leverage would a tiny Britain even have in 5-10 years. LOL.
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And you believe that crap? No different from any of the other fear mongering horseshit warnings or statistics.

If you'd spent even one fucking day in business you would know it's a pile of horseshit. All these warnings that it will take time.. err.. no. Politicians may like to gesticulate that they will hold a grudge or whatever, like this cunt Obama "you'll be at the back of the queue". No, we fucking won't. Business won't let it happen regardless of what these morally bankrupt politicians keep saying. Businesses will want to continue selling their products fucking pronto, and its the one time I'll praise the shallowness of corporate business and being even more morally bankrupt than the politicians! They don't care how.. just.. sell sell sell!!

Fuck Obama and anyone dumb enough to think his words have any merit what so ever. First, and last black president.
 
-=SS=- said:
Merely acting one way whilst holding the opposite conviction in your heart is two-faced.
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i guess i owe you an apology. i had no idea that you know what barack obama is thinking and feeling better than he does himself!

so, sorry. you truly are special.

alasdair
 
There would be nothing but uproar if the situation was reversed and we were telling the Americans to stay in an undemocratic superstate
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Is anybody telling Americans not to stay in their current "undemocratic superstate"? You realise that the USA is essenttially made up of lots of "little states" rather than simply being one "country" right? Culturally and in practice, i mean.
As for an "uproar" - what is an uproar?

It sounds like a how of tabloid outrage to me. Is that what it is? Really?
Because that's nothing to get upset about.
I know you're passionate SS, but please try to keep this conversation constructive.
I started in the hope of learning more about it from the folks that post here. Disagree all you like, but flaming and making outrageous claims doesn't really do a great service for the points you are trying to make.

But anyway - Peter Hitchens, a "must-watch". I'll take your word for it.
 
it is also pretty funny how SS is always attacking "mainstream media" of being leftist and having no credebility, but when they (BBC in this case) say something he can agree with, not so much anymore, huh? ;)

edit: by the way, wouldn't a brexit be pretty bad for british people working and studying abroad in the EU? what about them?
 
I suspect it would make travelling (within the EU) a lot more difficult as well (on a personal level - not even getting into trade ramifications).

But i guess if insularity and nationalism is your thing, this may not be such a bad thing for you...
 
spacejunk said:
i guess if insularity and nationalism is your thing, this may not be such a bad thing for you...
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You make it sound like being insular is necessarily a bad thing. If the group/crowd is going in the wrong direction, it is foolish for an individual to just go along with for fear of standing on his own. Better to be alone than to follow others into bad health, poor decisions, decline or whatever it may be. It's called self-preservation and that's a good thing.

As for nationalism, all that's been achieved is we've replaced belief in an individual state with that of a superstate.. how does shifting perceptive borders change the psychology of people? Not a damn bit. So to use the term nationalism as if its a bad thing is ridiculous and phony. Racists or whomever will always find a flag or entity to get behind, but to decry the belief in an individual state as a bad thing is stupid.

For every racist behind a national flag/our flag I can find you a fascist behind the EU flag.

willow said:
^What does his skin colour have to do with anyth oh wait I just realised who I'm replying to, carry on..
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Nothing at all. Which was my point. Everyone made a fuss because he was the first black president.. doesn't amount to shit, he's still a douchbag cuntface like most recent presidents. Black, white, makes no difference.
 
in a globalized future, governments which work against each other will simply not work anymore. in a time where you can send information everywhere and even travel around the globe within a day, nationalism just is a bad idea. we have huge international corporations, and nationalism makes it just easier for them to exploit the middle and lower classes.
 
I realize that the EU has big problems regarding transparancy and being non-democratic as a whole. but the answer, in my opinion, is to democratize the EU. That's why I am in favor of the work Yanis Varoufakis has been doing lately. Also, are national governments really better at working in the people's interests? I don't think so.

also, spare yourself the "get real" stuff. if you have better arguments, except for "standing on your own feet", which is very much an illusion when living in a country with multiple millions of inhabitants, why don't you bring it on?

just a reminder, your government sold out the water supply of London to private corporations (as far as I know). Doesn't seem to be in the best interest of everyone, in my opinion.
 
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