Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

[Squeaky]

I can’t keep the oxy use under control, even with someone holding my pills. And the psychological withdrawals are killing me. Knowing the pills are in the house makes me think about them to the point that I am asking for them daily now, yesterday was three times I got my wife to give them to me and I stole some too. It’s definitely worse than I thought. I thought last month was rock bottom but it seems I found a lower place to sink. Either that ir this id the first step towards climbing out of the hole I’m in....
I told her I woke up in withdrawal and that I stole pills yesterday. I think we will have to flush my pills and cancel my doctors’ appointments going forward. I had definitely been getting by on Kratom and weed, and after only about 5 days use I am fully hooked again. She’s going to be pretty angry that I stole pills, and that I am back in this situation, but I know that avoiding the truth is how I got to where I am now. She is the only person who cares about me and also the only one who knows mostly everything, so she is the only person for me to feel guilty about deceiving.
Last month was the first time I was honest about running out. Today was the first time I was honest about the rest. I know that a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, but this is really hard.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I can’t keep the oxy use under control, even with someone holding my pills. And the psychological withdrawals are killing me. Knowing the pills are in the house makes me think about them to the point that I am asking for them daily now, yesterday was three times I got my wife to give them to me and I stole some too. It’s definitely worse than I thought. I thought last month was rock bottom but it seems I found a lower place to sink. Either that ir this id the first step towards climbing out of the hole I’m in....
I told her I woke up in withdrawal and that I stole pills yesterday. I think we will have to flush my pills and cancel my doctors’ appointments going forward. I had definitely been getting by on Kratom and weed, and after only about 5 days use I am fully hooked again. She’s going to be pretty angry that I stole pills, and that I am back in this situation, but I know that avoiding the truth is how I got to where I am now. She is the only person who cares about me and also the only one who knows mostly everything, so she is the only person for me to feel guilty about deceiving.
Last month was the first time I was honest about running out. Today was the first time I was honest about the rest. I know that a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, but this is really hard.

This post right here needs to be printed out and put somewhere where you see it daily. This sums up your addiction in a nutshell. Just freakin' exactly like mine !

Right before I said enough is enough , these words that you just wrote, were what I finally had to admit too. It was the hardest thing I ever did.

You are getting by with weed and kratom. You already know you can do it. Having those pills within arms reach will always win. That's why you obsessed over them and stole. I did it too. All the freakin' time.

I think my man that you are getting real close to dumping those little fuckers that have such a hold on you and realizing you can have a life without them.

You know I"m on your side. Prove me wrong for getting on your case for the last 2 months !!

I would love to see a post from you that you really DID NOT refill your script next month. I would like nothing more.

Peace Squeaky. Have a good weekend

 

[Squeaky]

We poured the pills down the drain, and I promised to cancel my next appointment. This is totally f’d up but it is what it is. The future is not going to be what I wanted but I can’t spend the next year wishing I had made a change and not wasted the last year of my life-that’s what I have been doing every month for at least the last year.
The good thing is that now I know. If I had not gone through this I would always look back on the days of having my little blue pills and wished I could go back to them. And there’s nowhere to go but forward now. I know all too well how hard the first 4 days are and how important it is to just keep moving forward.
Today is day one. I refuse to call this ‘sobriety’ for lots of reasons, but mostly because the pills had control over many aspects if my life and that needs to stop. I don’t want to spend the next 6 months thinking about NOT having them and talking about NOT having them just so I can show everyone how the don’t play a role in my life anymore. I’m counting the days only because it gives me hope that the end of my withdrawals is getting closer. I have been through this so many times that I know day 4 is when things get a lot better, and at about two weeks I feel mostly good again.
I’m sad but optimistic. I’m playing a little stupid game in my head where I can see only the value in that prescription. Fantasizing about what it could be if I was in control. Maybe even selling the pills next month. (Even if I was that stupid, my wife would never allow it). It’s just the rambling mind of someone who is trying to rationalize the situation. I am a little bit surprised however that I have been beaten, by something so small.

So..... I know it’s crazy but I think that for me, a huge reason I got stuck in this revolving door every month was guilt. I couldn’t admit I needed help because of the fear of how guilty I was going to feel about it all. I would be in withdrawal 3 hours after taking a pill and experience all of the classic symptoms (exhaustion, muscle pains, anxiety, etc.) then feel guilty for not being a complete person (husband, father, employee) and not have enough energy to fake it. I would take another pill or two just so I could stand up straight and work, and be a better father/husband/etc. Then I would run out and feel horrible. I would want to tell the truth but I felt like such a failure in that moment that I really wanted it to stay hidden until I could get back to being in control. At some point I had been so dishonest with everyone about why I couldn’t perform that I would chosen death over truth. The thought of knowing that other people know how weak I am was worse than trying to hide it. And that guilt kept me a slave. Knowing that I already got through the moment where I told my wife that I have a problem has been an enormous weight lifted off my shoulders. No way I’m going to do the 12 step thing and go around town asking forgiveness from every one I have wronged, but I can totally understand now why they do it.

 

[Squeaky]

As for Kratom.
I would still be on the roller coaster if not for that crap. It raised my tolerance so much that 150 mg of oxycodone had little effect. My pills were basically stopping my withdrawals, but I never got to feel better than just normal regardless of how much I took. I remember about two years ago running out of pills. Tapering down to one pill per day. Breaking them into quarters and even getting down to 1/2 pill per day to make it stretch out to prescription day. Then I discovered Kratom and it seemed to be the solution to running out.
Ultimately it became a time bomb. It raised my tolerance for opiates to the point that I would burn through a very large prescription in about a week. If not for that, I would never have had a chance to see what normal life feels like without the pills and right now I would be cutting back to make my prescription last.
Im not sure if I love it or hate it. My guess is that a year from now I’ll look back and see that Kratom saved me, but right now I wish I still had access to the pills and I sort of blame Kratom for taking it away.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

That is freakin' fantastic !!!! Do you know how much strength that t. ook. Sure you do. You did it. You walked to the edge and looked in the abyss that those pills had become and gave the pills. the BIG FUCK YOU !! I am so freakin proud of you and I know your wife is too.

Don't start counting the days. Gets you nowhere. Just keep your eyes on the prize and cancel that DR. appt tomorrow morning. It's not an out anymore. Every day that you know you have that appt. still on the books is going to be a temptation you don't need.

Guilt has no place in our recovery. It's done and gone. What was....was. NOW is the only time that matters. As tomorrow does,

I don't even know you but you made my day. Rock on buddy. It only gets better from here. Get rid of any old used pill bottles. Tidy up where you used to like being high. Change the decor a bit. Don't give the pills any power over how you behave at home. Change things up a bit. Smoke a joint, take some kratom and piss your wife off because you rearranged the furniture. Do whatever you have to do to keep your MIND off the pills. Your body is cool with it. It thanks you very much. But your mind is going to fuck with you so do everything you can to use your inner strength to fight it.

Congrats Squeaky. I think you are gonna come out on the other side and be damned glad you finally did it.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

As for Kratom.
I would still be on the roller coaster if not for that crap. It raised my tolerance so much that 150 mg of oxycodone had little effect. My pills were basically stopping my withdrawals, but I never got to feel better than just normal regardless of how much I took. I remember about two years ago running out of pills. Tapering down to one pill per day. Breaking them into quarters and even getting down to 1/2 pill per day to make it stretch out to prescription day. Then I discovered Kratom and it seemed to be the solution to running out.
Ultimately it became a time bomb. It raised my tolerance for opiates to the point that I would burn through a very large prescription in about a week. If not for that, I would never have had a chance to see what normal life feels like without the pills and right now I would be cutting back to make my prescription last.
Im not sure if I love it or hate it. My guess is that a year from now I’ll look back and see that Kratom saved me, but right now I wish I still had access to the pills and I sort of blame Kratom for taking it away.

Quit glorifying the oxy and demonizing the kratom. It doesn't work that way and I know you know differently.

YOU don't obsess over, and steal, kratom do you?

These are the thoughts that will lead to a relapse. Don't go there.

 

[Squeaky]

Quit glorifying the oxy and demonizing the kratom. It doesn't work that way and I know you know differently.

YOU don't obsess over, and steal, kratom do you?

These are the thoughts that will lead to a relapse. Don't go there.

This is all part of the process. I’m just venting. The reality is that I focus very intensely on whatever I’m craving. I do exactly the same thing with oxy that I do with beef jerky and coca cola. I don’t do that with Kratom because too much makes me puke. The big difference between oxy and my other addictions is that nobody has passed a law against driving under the influence of diabetes.
I always did the exact same with alcohol. Drank every day for several years. One day it just didn’t sound good any more and I stopped. It’s been 5 or 6 years and now I have two beers about once a month and I don’t enjoy them. Somewhere in my brain decided the hangover wasn’t worth the buzz anymore and now that’s all I can see. It feels like that’s where I am landing on the pills.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

How are you doing Squeaky? Did you cancel your Dr. appt?

 

[Squeaky]

Not yet. It’s complicated, but I still have to make a decision. I might be better off telling the Dr a short version of the truth and maintain that relationship.
I will have more surgeries in my future and I will need some type of pain management. That might be a few years away, but most Dr’s only want to prescribe ibuprofen and that’s not going to work if I have more screws. I know that they can’t legally prescribe opiates to a patient who has admitted to abusing them and has already quit. He knows my history and my high tolerance, so I really don’t want to break it off without explanation even if it means I see him again and tell the truth(or some less embarrassing version)
This is not a decision that I can be allowed to make by myself, so I’m going to wait another week or so and have a long conversation with my wife.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

So you are telling me that MAYBE in a few YEARS that you MIGHT need pain control so you aren't going to cancel your upcoming refill appt.?

You don't need to tell your Dr. you were abusing them. If you really wanted to stop your oxy addiction you could tell him you have been feeling pretty good and would like to see if you could go without for awhile. I'm sure he would prescribe in the future if you asked.

I'm not sure you flushed your oxy down the toilet. From what you have posted lately I think that you are still taking it and will continue to take it. You don't need it for pain ( your words, not mine ) . The mental addiction to the oxy has always been your issue.

Quite frankly Squeaky I am tired of giving you advice. You are going to do as you please and some internet stranger will make no difference. All I hear is excuses from you yet you continue to beg and plead for advice.

I wish you and your wife good luck with dealing with your addiction. I simply cannot help you anymore. When you start posting in the Health and Recovery thread maybe you can garner some more support. Until then I just can't keep repeating myself over and over.

Like I said in an earlier post I am starting to mirror your compulsive behavior with these posts and I simply can't go there. Good Luck.

 

[Squeaky]

So you are telling me that MAYBE in a few YEARS that you MIGHT need pain control so you aren't going to cancel your upcoming refill appt.?

You don't need to tell your Dr. you were abusing them. If you really wanted to stop your oxy addiction you could tell him you have been feeling pretty good and would like to see if you could go without for awhile. I'm sure he would prescribe in the future if you asked.

I'm not sure you flushed your oxy down the toilet. From what you have posted lately I think that you are still taking it and will continue to take it. You don't need it for pain ( your words, not mine ) . The mental addiction to the oxy has always been your issue.

Quite frankly Squeaky I am tired of giving you advice. You are going to do as you please and some internet stranger will make no difference. All I hear is excuses from you yet you continue to beg and plead for advice.

I wish you and your wife good luck with dealing with your addiction. I simply cannot help you anymore. When you start posting in the Health and Recovery thread maybe you can garner some more support. Until then I just can't keep repeating myself over and over.

Like I said in an earlier post I am starting to mirror your compulsive behavior with these posts and I simply can't go there. Good Luck.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Squeaky]

At this point I know more about this crap than I ever wanted to know, and more than most people. I’m done. I just need to be smart about how I handle life going forward. I can’t use the pills at all. I can see that it will cost me everything worth living for.
For a long time now I thought there was a way to get back in control. If I hadn’t done this now I would be doing it in a year, or ten years. It’s not enough to tell myself that it’s not a good idea. I needed to feel the bottom and realize on my own that as far as I have fallen there is still further to fall and it would cost me my family and everything I have that is worth living for.
There’s no way I’m finished with this problem. To deny that is to show my own arrogance and do it again, but probably way worse.
As for today...... Today I’m going to work. Today I’m feeling better and I believe I will feel a tiny bit better tomorrow. I see people on the street who look lost, homeless, sick and addicted, with no hope of getting free, and I see myself in a very short time if I ever go back for even one pill. I threw out the pills in front of my wife so that I could have that image burned into my brain. How low I felt and the look in her face. I used to see temporary relief in that little bottle. Now I see a picture of a little blue pill with all of that despair in the background and it makes me not romanticize them anymore. And I know she loves me, but I don’t think she will go back to Disneyland with me for another ride on space mountain-she will drop me off in the parking lot and let me go by myself, and never look back.
I’m done. My next goal is to reduce my dependence on Kratom.

 

[Squeaky]

For the record, I’m only counting days forward. Not backwards. I have no pride built into how long I have been ‘clean’, only using what I have already learned about my withdrawals to help with the despair of knowing that today was difficult and the pills make it all get a lot better. Part of the reason I got stuck back in the revolving door every month was the fear that it was never going to get better, so why not give myself a break. “It’s just once, and I have earned it. I need a break. This isn’t getting better so I really DO need the pills.....” etc, etc ....... That was a big failure every month.

Something else:
I’m a responsible adult. Job, family, home, and an average middle class suburban life. And back surgeries. If I want pills in the future, I CAN get them. I can talk most doctors into writing me a script for pain killers. Most doctors would never give me a script for 100 oxy 30’s, but I know that I could have a bottle of Norco’s in a few hours if I fake a limp and tell him my nuts hurt. And I have the pharmacy in my back pocket, they will be disappointed when I stop showing up! So simple abstinence won’t work. If I believe I can handle it or if I just want to get high, I WILL BE ABLE TO GET MORE. Besides I live in a major American city and I can get oxy’s on Craigslist any day of the week. Everyone sees this pattern with alcohol, but most folks see pills like heroin and the assumption is that I would have to become a criminal to get more. And once I have a script in my hand, even the police can’t stop me from using them as much as I want. This is how most people relapse into prescription drug abuse.
Only time will tell if what I’m doing will work. And it’s my responsibility alone to get through it. If I lose my job, I lose my house, and I lose the family who counts on me. Sounds like a great reason for a relapse right? And to avoid the conversation about relapse is to bury my head in the sand and set myself up for certain failure. I’m obviously not so smart that I couldn’t get hooked on pills, but I’m definitely smart enough to know that I need to stay vigilant or it could happen at any time. I refuse to walk around bragging about my sobriety or marking days on a calendar because I already know that I would be secretly counting down to the time when my tolerance is back down and I can get what I want from one pill instead of 5.
I am changing my view of what a ‘good’ day looks like. I used to be superman, even before the pills. I have been mostly using them to be superman still, and obviously that was wrong. I have limitations and pain. I can’t do the physical things I used to do, but my brain still works and I can move into a mentoring/leadership role at work and at home and get the younger generation to do the heavy lifting. What I’m seeing now is this: The pills give me back a fraction of the physical abilities I once had but they steal most of my mental abilities that I need to rely on going forward. My back is totally f’ed up and no amount of painkillers will change that. HOWEVER..... one pill leads to two, three, ten, and then my mind is as gone as my body. Sounds like I’m better off just killing myself now instead of forcing the people who care about me to carry me (mind and body) until we’re all broke ($$$) and I ultimately lose everything I was trying to keep.
BlueLight is my AA. I won’t go to meetings but I can type while I sit on the can. By the way, I’m crapping normally again. Part of counting the days going forward is knowing that the intestinal cramping and wicked constipation would be gone by now, and it is.

 

[Dundermifflin8699]

Need support.....
VA patient, 10 year pain tx
L4,5,S1,2, Cervical herniated C3

Norco-5 : 4 per day
Tramadol 50mg 4 per day

Have tapered down now for the last 2 weeks and took final dose today...

Have slept about 6 hours in the last 7 days..
Fkn crazy at night....feel psychotic

I want so much to get free and try to live my life again without the chains and groundhog day every 30 days..

I'm trying not to do it this Saturday and call for meds to get a refills.
Not get behind the eight ball again..

I feel like I'm 90% there...

Thanks for listening

 

[Dundermifflin8699]

Need support.....
VA patient, 10 year pain tx
L4,5,S1,2, Cervical herniated C3

Norco-5 : 4 per day
Tramadol 50mg 4 per day

Have tapered down now for the last 2 weeks and took final dose today...

Have slept about 6 hours in the last 7 days..
Fkn crazy at night....feel psychotic

I want so much to get free and try to live my life again without the chains and groundhog day every 30 days..

I'm trying not to do it this Saturday and call for meds to get a refills.
Not get behind the eight ball again..

I feel like I'm 90% there...

Thanks for listening

I slept for first time last night....
I know if i call and get another round of meds im fkd again...

 

[Squeaky]

The VA is rough because they hand painkillers out like tic-tac’s.
I have done the taperdown and jump-off. It feels pretty awful every time you drop your dose and feels like death when you finally jump.
Things that worked for me: Scalding how showers give temporary relief from the body aches. Healthy food helps, junk food and fast food make everything worse. Exercise and sunshine will make you feel less hopeless, and getting outside really helps to pass the time. Binge on Netflix also for passing time.

Kratom or Loperamide(Immodium AD) really do work. If you go with Lope then just know it takes 4 hours for it to start working and you really don’t want to be on it for more than a week. My guess is about 20 mg lope per day for you to start, 10 mg x 2 doses on the first day and drop about 3-4 mg each day until done. Could need up to 30 mg to start.

 

[Squeaky]

I slept for first time last night....
I know if i call and get another round of meds im fkd again...

Check out the beginning of this thread when I started posting . I did pretty much exactly what you’re doing, about 5 years ago. I posted my whole experience and maybe something there could help. At the very least there’s a few days worth of reading to keep you busy.

 

[n3ophy7e]

The VA is rough because they hand painkillers out like tic-tac’s.
I have done the taperdown and jump-off. It feels pretty awful every time you drop your dose and feels like death when you finally jump.
Things that worked for me: Scalding hot showers give temporary relief from the body aches. Healthy food helps, junk food and fast food make everything worse. Exercise and sunshine will make you feel less hopeless, and getting outside really helps to pass the time. Binge on Netflix also for passing time.

Kratom or Loperamide(Immodium AD) really do work. If you go with Lope then just know it takes 4 hours for it to start working and you really don’t want to be on it for more than a week. My guess is about 20 mg lope per day for you to start, 10 mg x 2 doses on the first day and drop about 3-4 mg each day until done. Could need up to 30 mg to start.

Very good advice

 

[Squeaky]

Dundermifflin8699- try this thought on for size:
I ran out of pills every month for two years. Day 3 or day 4 is the worst and I paid with my day 3/4 so many times I deserved to have frequent flyer miles to the land of Suck. But it never got easier except that I learned the pattern and I got good at hating life.
I went through the absolute worst part of withdrawals too many times to count. Every time I got my bottle of pills I would use them to help get past my withdrawals, but I had already suffered through the hardest part. By starting over I was actually setting myself to suffer the hardest part again, all in the name of avoiding the easy part.
You have already done the hardest part. That first night of insomnia is horrible. The first couple of days are absolutely miserable. That bottle of pills means you get back on the roller coaster, but not at the beginning. You get back on AFTER the point when the pills stopped making you feel really great, but just before the part where you start your withdrawals.
Imagine if I slept with the most beautiful girl in town. It was awesome until later I found out she was happily married. Then her husband finds out and kicks my ass. When I have a dream later about our encounter I’m going to want to go back to right before the sex, and wake up before the husband finds out. If you get that script refilled..... You’re going to skip the sex, go straight to the minute before her husband finds out, and keep getting your ass kicked over and over again.
You can’t undo the past, but you can change the future. I spent too much time glorifying what I thought was some beautiful version of history as if there was some way of reliving only the good parts. Stick with your plan for a little while longer. It WILL get easier. Quit now and you lived through the last two days for nothing. At least get to where you can see the difference between life with the pills and life without. At least then you can make a more informed decision.

 

[Dundermifflin8699]

Check out the beginning of this thread when I started posting . I did pretty much exactly what you’re doing, about 5 years ago. I posted my whole experience and maybe something there could help. At the very least there’s a few days worth of reading to keep you busy.

Thank you..
Regarding Kratom
Dose?
Where do i get?