Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

[dopiejay]

You'll be ok Shroom.

Stay away from the caffeine from now on. I am so glad you have a good Dr. helping you taper.

You can do this, here if you need anything.

Hugs,
Ash.

This. Caffeine sends me straight over the edge since I've gone off benzos. I can't even drink 5 hour energy without having an anxiety attack.

 

[NIGHTMARES37]

I took Ibogaine initially 10 years ago. I nearly died during the treatment, was in and out of my body for four days, went aphasiac the second day. I made it though, stayed cleanish for nearly 3 years. I got deeply involved in the Ibo world, moved to MX to volunteer and work in four different quasi-clinics, did rogue hotel treatments up and down the coast. I wasn't taking care of myself anymore and just absorbing all that energy from peoples treatments - I do think Ibogaine performs an exorcism of sorts. I've been struggling on and off for years now. I did Ibo a couple more times but it didn't work the same and I felt like I was abusing it. I've come to believe that whatever strength Ibogaine gave me the first time around, the profound, symbolic nightmarish visions, it's all still in me and I conjure it when I want, it that makes any sense. I've taken immense amounts of psychedelics, the veil is thin for me. I'm into day 5 off subs and I'm hanging in there, it really does have to do with your headspace. I've been through physical withdrawal so many times it almost has a nostalgic feel, like Christmas morning. Fuck. I'm currently writing a book about my two decades of drug counterculture. I got arrested by the sea when I was 17 with a quarter gram lsd, then going into addiction, Ibogaine, suboxone, just covering my experience, more a narrative nonfiction than a memoir. Alright I got to force myself to go walk now. peace


i

Wow Nightmare, you have a great outlook. I was addicted to opiates for 10 years and I tried everything but ibogaine actually did it for me, that was 5 years ago. But basically that was the change in mindset the experience net resulted in. I still had some withdrawals that came back (I had already been withdrawing a week before I took it though) but I didn't care anymore, dealing with them was easily a price worth paying for being able to fully live again. Where before I never thought that way. Just keep your confidence in your decision, I think you got this.

 

[dopiejay]

So I've got an appointment booked with an NP in a few days. My girlfriend booked it for me and didn't tell me. She says i need something done about my anxiety and apparently this NP is incredibly educated, compassionate and great to deal with. She's saving lives according to what I've been told especially when it comes to mental health.

And I'm going to tell her everything. I'm going to tell her I need to be back on Valium because I can't handle this, there's a reason I was taking it in the first place. The anxiety is just too much. I can't sleep, can't eat, can't function.

Then I'm going to tell her about my back, hip and leg pain and be straight up with her. I'm gonna say I was on codeine, it kinda worked but wasn't strong enough. I think I can really benefit from something stronger seeing as I only take it once every couple weeks. I'm terrified to ask her because everyone I've ever told about it called me a fucking liar and said I'm not in enough pain to justify taking opioids. I'm honestly debating not going at all because I've lost all faith in our healthcare system and I know it's gonna be the same as before.

Sigh... Wish me luck.

 

[NIGHTMARES37]

Detox Music

Yo so I'm gonna be holding it down for at least the next week getting through this suboxone detox, anybody have any music suggestions that help you? I've been listening to a lot of Andy Shauf, Deafheaven, Mac Miller. Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[dopiejay]

Yo so I'm gonna be holding it down for at least the next week getting through this suboxone detox, anybody have any music suggestions that help you? I've been listening to a lot of Andy Shauf, Deafheaven, Mac Miller. Any suggestions appreciated.

Try out the album movies for the blind by cage for those angry days lol. Let some of that inner rage out.

 

[Xorkoth]

I took Ibogaine initially 10 years ago. I nearly died during the treatment, was in and out of my body for four days, went aphasiac the second day. I made it though, stayed cleanish for nearly 3 years. I got deeply involved in the Ibo world, moved to MX to volunteer and work in four different quasi-clinics, did rogue hotel treatments up and down the coast. I wasn't taking care of myself anymore and just absorbing all that energy from peoples treatments - I do think Ibogaine performs an exorcism of sorts. I've been struggling on and off for years now. I did Ibo a couple more times but it didn't work the same and I felt like I was abusing it. I've come to believe that whatever strength Ibogaine gave me the first time around, the profound, symbolic nightmarish visions, it's all still in me and I conjure it when I want, it that makes any sense. I've taken immense amounts of psychedelics, the veil is thin for me. I'm into day 5 off subs and I'm hanging in there, it really does have to do with your headspace. I've been through physical withdrawal so many times it almost has a nostalgic feel, like Christmas morning. Fuck. I'm currently writing a book about my two decades of drug counterculture. I got arrested by the sea when I was 17 with a quarter gram lsd, then going into addiction, Ibogaine, suboxone, just covering my experience, more a narrative nonfiction than a memoir. Alright I got to force myself to go walk now. peace


i

Wow, sounds like you've led an interesting life. Crazy you almost died during ibogaine, I did it at home with supervision and it was very peaceful for me, my heart rate didn't even change much. I was really out of it for 3 days. I mean with a flood dose it makes sense even though ibogaine's half-life is not that long, because it's active at as little as 8mg, and you're taking like 1200-1500mg, so it takes a lot of half lives to wear all the way off. The duration had a lot to do with its effectiveness for me, it was simply such an epic journey that seemed to last for SO long, it was basically a big break in my life that was spent on some deeply subconscious healing. I was drea,ming while awake and unaware I was dreaming while I was dreaming, I would have brief bouts of relative lucidity which got more and more frequent and eventually I was mostly partly aware and thought I was fully aware because I couldn't tell that dreams were overlaying my perceptions. It was really wild. It felt amazing too, like how it feels when you're almost asleep and you feel so heavy and cozy. I took a combination of pure HCl and TA extract so I could get the full spectrum of alkaloids.

Anyway that's cool you got involved in the ibogaine world, I've mentored a few people via the Internet prior to their experiences but that's it. Had to pay it back since a dear friend on here did it for me.

But yeah I've also done immense amounts of psychedelics. I thought iboga was absolutely fascinating and my lower follow-up dose at 6 days (like 350mg about) was much more in control and it was beautiful.

I'd like to read the book one day.

 

[mtop2036]

Nightmare, how much did you taper down to before you jumped off? I'm on my 3rd day at 1mg. I would like to be down to at least .25, even lower if I can before I make the jump.

 

[mtop2036]

Dude our health care is fucked though eh I don't even know if I agree with what I'm saying.

Self medication often works out best. They can only help so much and once they know you are fucked up you are fucked.

I mean no disrespect but isn't self medicating how addiction starts for a lot of people? With self medicating the only thing stopping you from taking the amount you want is supply, health and finances. If you have the money and the supply you just end up getting a high tolerance from chasing the high. Of course the people who are getting medication from doctors can obviously get tolerance and some doctors put people on high doses. Doctors shouldn't be giving out high doses to a non tolerant person, even small doses can cause addiction. I think there is a difference between pain/mental relief and getting high. But both can leave a person dependent. And while it's unfortunate when a doctor realizes the patient has become dependant, that's when they cut you down or off. Maybe the doctor is doing it to save their own ass but it can also save the patient from falling deeper into addiction.

I get it, I have pain issues and anxiety but I think the majority of us wish we never started taking the medication in the first place rather it's from the street or doctor. I wish I had just tried to work out my issues before turning to drugs. Even if I wasn't able to work out my issues, personally my life was better living with those issues without the drugs.

Hope your doing well

 

[Painful One]

So I've got an appointment booked with an NP in a few days. My girlfriend booked it for me and didn't tell me. She says i need something done about my anxiety and apparently this NP is incredibly educated, compassionate and great to deal with. She's saving lives according to what I've been told especially when it comes to mental health.

And I'm going to tell her everything. I'm going to tell her I need to be back on Valium because I can't handle this, there's a reason I was taking it in the first place. The anxiety is just too much. I can't sleep, can't eat, can't function.

Then I'm going to tell her about my back, hip and leg pain and be straight up with her. I'm gonna say I was on codeine, it kinda worked but wasn't strong enough. I think I can really benefit from something stronger seeing as I only take it once every couple weeks. I'm terrified to ask her because everyone I've ever told about it called me a fucking liar and said I'm not in enough pain to justify taking opioids. I'm honestly debating not going at all because I've lost all faith in our healthcare system and I know it's gonna be the same as before.

Sigh... Wish me luck.

This is great news D.J!
Thank God for your girlfriend!

This is exactly what you need to do bro. Just be honest and tell them everything. There is help out there. There are some really great doctors who are compassionate and do save lives. It is just a matter of finding them. Don't give up!

I'm praying for you and I have faith you will get the very much needed help you need.
You can't go on living this way. Things get real bad when you can't even sleep or eat. I know. I have been there.
You can't live that way for long. Bad things happen.

I'm so proud of you guys for reaching out for help! I'm beaming love to all of you!

 

[Painful One]

I mean no disrespect but isn't self medicating how addiction starts for a lot of people? With self medicating the only thing stopping you from taking the amount you want is supply, health and finances. If you have the money and the supply you just end up getting a high tolerance from chasing the high. Of course the people who are getting medication from doctors can obviously get tolerance and some doctors put people on high doses. Doctors shouldn't be giving out high doses to a non tolerant person, even small doses can cause addiction. I think there is a difference between pain/mental relief and getting high. But both can leave a person dependent. And while it's unfortunate when a doctor realizes the patient has become dependant, that's when they cut you down or off. Maybe the doctor is doing it to save their own ass but it can also save the patient from falling deeper into addiction.

I get it, I have pain issues and anxiety but I think the majority of us wish we never started taking the medication in the first place rather it's from the street or doctor. I wish I had just tried to work out my issues before turning to drugs. Even if I wasn't able to work out my issues, personally my life was better living with those issues without the drugs.

Hope your doing well

You are absolutely right. I agree with you!

There is help out there! I found help and you also found help ShroomySatori!
You just got to put your mind to it.

Help is being treated properly with the smallest amount of medication possible to manage the issues!
Help is not getting so many drugs you are high 24/7!
Help is being treated for serious medical issues so you can function. Help does not come from medication alone.
You must find other things to help yourself also!

Examples I have found other then medication are: meditation, breathing exercises, physical exercise, aromatherapy, hot showers and baths using Epsom salt, nutrition, mental toughness and spirituality, relationships with others, helping others.

Anything else anyone has found that helps? I know yoga has helped Shroomy.

These three remain my friends- HOPE, FAITH, and LOVE! Love being the MOST powerful thing!

We all MUST find other things to help ourselves. Medication can only do so much and look at the problems medication has got us all into! I am not against medication, it is a valuable tool when used and prescribed correctly but it is just a tool. One of many.
Don't be fooled!

With Love!

 

[Painful One]

Nightmare, how much did you taper down to before you jumped off? I'm on my 3rd day at 1mg. I would like to be down to at least .25, even lower if I can before I make the jump.

I have heard it is best to taper way, way down on suboxone before jumping off.
Robert_325 (I think his name is on drugs.com forum) has a plan for getting off suboxone that has worked wonders for people and has saved many, many lives. He even has doctors coming to him for his experience in this area.

I know he recommends cutting those strips into 1/16 of a mg and from there dissolve in water and take the tiniest doses.
Then jump off and it is no big deal. Look up his plan. I know many have searched him out and he has a great plan!

I wish you all the best. You are in my prayers too!
You CAN do this!
Proud of you!!!

 

[Painful One]

Yoga never helped, it made things worse for me especially my anxiety. It just forced me to do something, get out of bed and at least talk to a few girls for the hell of it but that just made me more hurt. It made me feel more hopeless than ever before.

Nothing ever helped but the drugs, and I tried a lot. Those don't work anymore, so it's over. If you look back you'll see I decided to live 5 years of happy life and then die young as opposed to being tortured for the rest of my life. I will try to find the post, I'd like to see when I said that and how long it has been. Definitely over 5 years, but after those 5 years things started to go downhill fast. Maybe 4, it's not like I have much of a memory anymore.

I'm gonna slit my fucking wrists it's just the fact of the matter. I hate my life and I wish death upon myself and swiftly at that. I no longer wish to live and feel completely abandoned by society from everyone to family friends health care careers the government, academics fuckin EVERYTHING in this country has FUCKED me over. It's time to fucking jump off a cliff.

I will e-mail you. What happened today? You can tell me privately.
I just got home from my doctors appointment so give me a minute.

Hang in there brother. We will figure something out.

Write me a message and let me know what has caused this huge change in your feelings today.
Love you!

 

[NIGHTMARES37]

You know, I didn't taper all that low this time around, took 2ish mg daily for a few weeks then half mg a couple days and just quit. I've been on it before, once I spent months tapering down to like a fucking quarter mg daily, was just suffering. That time I'd been on it for 4 years and even with the taper I was a hot mess for like 12 days, still not right a month later.I just know I'm gonna have to suffer some whether it's jumping off 2 mg or a quarter, thats just me. Probably less long term PAWS when you taper lower and for longer. I'm just in a situation where I have the time to be sick and the future looks bright, so going to give life free of dope one more honest shot. I'm surprisingly comfortable with clonidine, clonazapam and hydroxyzine, some amino acids, a bunch of herb. I actually fall asleep from the clonodine and the restless legs aren't that bad. I'm on day 5 and I can feel the manic screaming coming out of me but it's manageable. I can see my pupils again and cry easily, but to me that's a good sign.

Nightmare, how much did you taper down to before you jumped off? I'm on my 3rd day at 1mg. I would like to be down to at least .25, even lower if I can before I make the jump.

 

[NIGHTMARES37]

That would be a great t-shirt: "Your Yoga Makes Me Hopeless"

Yoga never helped, it made things worse for me especially my anxiety. It just forced me to do something, get out of bed and at least talk to a few girls for the hell of it but that just made me more hurt. It made me feel more hopeless than ever before.

Nothing ever helped but the drugs, and I tried a lot. Those don't work anymore, so it's over. If you look back you'll see I decided to live 5 years of happy life and then die young as opposed to being tortured for the rest of my life. I will try to find the post, I'd like to see when I said that and how long it has been. Definitely over 5 years, but after those 5 years things started to go downhill fast. Maybe 4, it's not like I have much of a memory anymore.

I'm gonna slit my fucking wrists it's just the fact of the matter. I hate my life and I wish death upon myself and swiftly at that. I no longer wish to live and feel completely abandoned by society from everyone to family friends health care careers the government, academics fuckin EVERYTHING in this country has FUCKED me over. It's time to fucking jump off a cliff.

 

[mtop2036]

You know, I didn't taper all that low this time around, took 2ish mg daily for a few weeks then half mg a couple days and just quit. I've been on it before, once I spent months tapering down to like a fucking quarter mg daily, was just suffering. That time I'd been on it for 4 years and even with the taper I was a hot mess for like 12 days, still not right a month later.I just know I'm gonna have to suffer some whether it's jumping off 2 mg or a quarter, thats just me. Probably less long term PAWS when you taper lower and for longer. I'm just in a situation where I have the time to be sick and the future looks bright, so going to give life free of dope one more honest shot. I'm surprisingly comfortable with clonidine, clonazapam and hydroxyzine, some amino acids, a bunch of herb. I actually fall asleep from the clonodine and the restless legs aren't that bad. I'm on day 5 and I can feel the manic screaming coming out of me but it's manageable. I can see my pupils again and cry easily, but to me that's a good sign.

Thanks for the reply. That's good to hear, Sounds like your doing well considering what the going through. I definitely feel like I'm dragging it out been on 1mg for 3 days now and am definitely in wds. Got the runs and everything but in a way I'm kind of enjoying part of it. I feel more "normal" in wds than I do when I adjust to my new dose which takes about 10 days or so. Id like to get down to at least .25mg before I personally jump.

Not sure if anyone saw my post about it but the clinic i get my subs from wont let you break up pills, they expect you to jump off at 2mg which I don't agree with. Anyways I've had multiple drug tests with no subutex in them, my guess is they test for a certain range and I'm lower so it's not showing up. or it's my health issues. They should of said something after the first one but they didnt, now it looks bad. It's probably gonna come down to them wanting to watch it dissolve in my mouth so they know I'm taking all of it which I won't be doing. So I'll most likely be kicked out soon. I may not have the time to get down as low as I want but I keep telling myself it'll work out.

Anyways nightmare keep up the good work you got this! I'm sure your aware but just don't let the klonopin get a hold of you.

 

[NIGHTMARES37]

Yeah, you know, I think benzos have gotten me into more trouble than anything else. I'm doing well just taking 1/2mg at a time every 12 hours, actually took my last this morning. But the clonidine works. I remember the first heroin dealer I met when I was a kid, this guy would shoot a gram of tar in his neck and he told me to be careful of the klonopin...

Thanks for the reply. That's good to hear, Sounds like your doing well considering what the going through. I definitely feel like I'm dragging it out been on 1mg for 3 days now and am definitely in wds. Got the runs and everything but in a way I'm kind of enjoying part of it. I feel more "normal" in wds than I do when I adjust to my new dose which takes about 10 days or so. Id like to get down to at least .25mg before I personally jump.

Not sure if anyone saw my post about it but the clinic i get my subs from wont let you break up pills, they expect you to jump off at 2mg which I don't agree with. Anyways I've had multiple drug tests with no subutex in them, my guess is they test for a certain range and I'm lower so it's not showing up. or it's my health issues. They should of said something after the first one but they didnt, now it looks bad. It's probably gonna come down to them wanting to watch it dissolve in my mouth so they know I'm taking all of it which I won't be doing. So I'll most likely be kicked out soon. I may not have the time to get down as low as I want but I keep telling myself it'll work out.

Anyways nightmare keep up the good work you got this! I'm sure your aware but just don't let the klonopin get a hold of you.

 

[dopiejay]

dopie jay man don't give up on our health care. I'm in benzo wd's stoned outta my mind I can't focus on shit but I saw pain in your post. You got legit chronic pain too man? Fucking stand up for yourself that's what you gotta do that is what has always worked and 100% honestly (to an extent).

Man my doctor seriously just saved my life. She's a needle in a haystack though. If you don't like a doctor as you know, you'll know immediately and honestly get up and moon the fuckers and find someone who cares. Just don't give up because they actually CAN help you man you just have to voice your concerns. A lot of them are lazy to do anything for problems that are notorious and challenging to treat. You gotta fuckin just freak out sometimes man about how fucked up it's making your life.

It depends though like the benzo appointment was the chillest appointment of my life. I have a followup real soon I'm nervous about. I'm probably only nervous because I am in benzo wd's and I had to stop drinking coffee and smokin so much weed cause my body is going haywire sorta. I hope I can talk to her okay. I just have to keep being honest and build trust because it is the right thing to do.

You the health care is SHIT it took me two years to get into a chronic pain specialist man. Years. I had already railed H daily all day for 6 months they drug tested me and I guess didn't care that every drug in the book was in there. The health care is so fucked man but don't give up on it or there isn't any hope of people helping you man and you'll have to go it alone.

And that doesn't work out so well we both know that I think. It can only go on for so long man until the stress builds up it's so much better to have scripts. If you have bad pain I hope you get one but you gotta be honest about how bad it is and what you take for it just maybe don't mention oxy's but like over the counter codeine and can't even feel it or something. Just be a little careful about what you say if you choose to do this. I got lucky as fuck with my doctor so far. I can't even believe it so good luck to you. I am the same way a rebel to the system man but don't give up on it just yet. I'm not even being drug tested.

I've been diagnosed with bursitis, then undiagnosed, then diagnosed with FIBROMYALGIA for fuck sake, then undiagnosed. I don't think It's either. I think it's severe sciatica episodes. It gets so bad I can't walk without my hip crunching like a cement mixer. I mean you can hear it when I walk. The pain goes from the middle of my back all the way to my toes. Usually only on one side but sometimes both.

The only thing that works is strong opioids. I'm not even shitting you. Stretching don't work. NSAIDs don't work. But just 5 or 10mg of oxycodone and I'm normal. NORMAL. No pain, lots of energy, just a lust for life.

However. Try telling that to a doctor. "You're a drug addict looking for narcotics and you aren't in pain. You're too young to be in that much pain you must be looking for narcotics. You won't be getting any narcotics from us so stop trying."

I've heard doctors say all of that and the worst thing? Not once did I ever ask for narcotics. I've never said "I need opioids." It's usually the opposite. I'm usually saying "but listen, I don't necessarily WANT narcotics, I want to not be in pain and nothing is working."

I've tried: acetaminophen, naproxen, indomethacin, Ibuprofen, tramadol, amitryptaline, pregabalin, gabapentin, codeine among others, excercise etc. This was all doctors orders. None of it worked. I bought some oxy off a buddy and just like that I felt fine.

Yeah I think I can justify taking an opioid on the stronger end.

 

[dopiejay]

This is great news D.J!
Thank God for your girlfriend!

This is exactly what you need to do bro. Just be honest and tell them everything. There is help out there. There are some really great doctors who are compassionate and do save lives. It is just a matter of finding them. Don't give up!

I'm praying for you and I have faith you will get the very much needed help you need.
You can't go on living this way. Things get real bad when you can't even sleep or eat. I know. I have been there.
You can't live that way for long. Bad things happen.

I'm so proud of you guys for reaching out for help! I'm beaming love to all of you!

You've got more faith than me my dear. I have a strong belief this NP is going to let me down like everyone else did. I might get lucky and get my benzos back but I don't think I've got a prayer of ever getting anything stronger than codeine. I think I'll be living in pain until I'm dead.

My buddy broke his fucking neck in a car accident and couldn't get out of his recliner for 6 months due to pain and they wouldn't prescribe anything stronger than ibuprofen. I may try to get back on lyrica. It kinda helps a little at high doses even though I end up totally incapacitated. Like worse than being drunk.

Edit: and yes thank god for my lady. She's an angel (sometimes LOL)

 

[dopiejay]

I am sort of self medicating but getting into a pain clinic very soon for oxy's. I have too much back pain and that is my decision but a much lower dose than before and maybe something weaker. Like morphine or codeine.

People have been doing such nice things for me lately I hope I don't let them down. I basically get free hot yoga indefinitely as my health improves.

People have been really nice. Except for my brother I guess. Painful one would know about that.

I wouldn't go for codeine if I were you tbh. I don't find it does much for pain even at high doses. The best thing I've found for pain (aside from heroin and hydromorph, you ain't feelin shit on that stuff) was oxycodone. It's not too intoxicating and it's very good at what it does imo. It's just been very demonized by the media. Appointment time for me in less than an hour. Terrified to mention my pain to the dr.

 

[Painful One]

I hope the doctor appointment went well D.J.

Good luck!