Painful One
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
- Messages
- 4,152
Good to hear this!
I'm glad you are starting to feel a bit better.
Give it a chance to work. It takes a few days to stabilize.
I wish you well!
-
The Dark Side 💕 Welcome Guest 💕
Posting Rules Bluelight Rules Notable Threads Urgent Hotlines Bereavement Mindfulness Suicide Support Anger Management -
TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | Eligiu | deficiT | paranoid android
Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread
- Thread starter P0kemama
- Start date
- Status
Good to hear this!
I'm glad you are starting to feel a bit better.
Give it a chance to work. It takes a few days to stabilize.
I wish you well!
Painful One
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
- Messages
- 4,152
Let us know how you are doing ShroomySatori.
I pray that you can get through those withdrawals and get stabilized on just your Valium prescription.
You will probably feel a lot better that way.
I'm glad you have the CBD and THC oils, those should help.
Sending you lots of love and support!
ShroomySatori
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2015
- Messages
- 2,935
I never doubted myself during opiate withdrawal.
I can't see this level of benzodiazepine abuse not leaving a deep scar behind, and it's not even remotely close to cold turkey. It seems like a never-ending withdrawal in the later stages of this kind of addiction, and more than a withdrawal. I feel like these injured my body in many different ways, possibly permanently, whereas after 6 months off opiates I was generally okay. The dose, to be fair, has been extreme. 30 xanax bars a day (to avoid withdrawal) has generally been the norm for the past couple of years. Ah no, 20 bars. Before that, it was 3. Happened really fast as soon as I started hitting opiate withdrawal and relapsing chronically. Intelligent compensation.
I'm beginning to realize just how severely I fucked my life up. I was already depressed regarding self esteem and failure/success issues and never fitting in. I am now realizing that the problems are exponentially worse than I had previously thought they were, due to being retarded from benzodiazepine abuse and just waking up. That makes it even harder to deal with, on top of the panic attacks I have all of a sudden memories of even more and more stress and problems and mistakes and fuckups that I've been blocking out of my mind, trading my intelligence for complacency. Well, it is time to fight back and let me tell you I am a fucking loose cannon. I don't consider myself a human being anymore, and I do not consider myself a part of society. A misanthrope, I guess.
My back pain has been extreme without the muscle relaxing effects. These drugs have destroyed my whole entire life. It doesn't mean I can't rebuild a new life, just sucks knowing I'd have been somebody different all these years.
Stabilization means a return to panic disorder, having panic attacks daily and constant extreme anxiety. The question is how much worse it will be now that I have abused xanax, ativan, bromazepam, etizolam especially, valium... the only one I never abused and always wanted to be on was klonopin. Random benzos like nitrazepam, norflurazepam. And so on. I'm not so much worried about the withdrawal of this one because I can taper. I have supply concerns that could leave me dead, a lot of problems that are firing through my mind at rapid-fire pace now, and before this started I was already having a nervous breakdown.
I feel like when I had what I would call a psychotic break a number of years ago. But my biggest concern is not the recovery. As soon as I am out of the Prison of Drugs I will be good with the post-acute stuff because I live a healthy life other than the drug use. I don't know how long it will take to reduce my benzodiazepine dose to where it should be, but I'm pretty much done with drugs at this point. They are not done with me, though. I seem to be resilient when it comes to withdrawal and I think I can recover fast - then it is a matter of all the therapy and all that but that is for another day.
CBD is helping the benzo withdrawal, obviously. I heard someone cut their etizolam dose in half using it almost painlessly, but that is likely not going to be the case here as I have only heard of 2 or 3 people on the whole internet who take more etizolam than I do. And they were straight up suicidal. I have to take care of this problem now or I am simply going to die and leave behind a lot of unanswered questions and confusion since people think I am doing better being off opiates. I'm not. I wish I had been quitting this shit instead because in my view they are going to be the death of me.
I can't see this level of benzodiazepine abuse not leaving a deep scar behind, and it's not even remotely close to cold turkey. It seems like a never-ending withdrawal in the later stages of this kind of addiction, and more than a withdrawal. I feel like these injured my body in many different ways, possibly permanently, whereas after 6 months off opiates I was generally okay. The dose, to be fair, has been extreme. 30 xanax bars a day (to avoid withdrawal) has generally been the norm for the past couple of years. Ah no, 20 bars. Before that, it was 3. Happened really fast as soon as I started hitting opiate withdrawal and relapsing chronically. Intelligent compensation.
I'm beginning to realize just how severely I fucked my life up. I was already depressed regarding self esteem and failure/success issues and never fitting in. I am now realizing that the problems are exponentially worse than I had previously thought they were, due to being retarded from benzodiazepine abuse and just waking up. That makes it even harder to deal with, on top of the panic attacks I have all of a sudden memories of even more and more stress and problems and mistakes and fuckups that I've been blocking out of my mind, trading my intelligence for complacency. Well, it is time to fight back and let me tell you I am a fucking loose cannon. I don't consider myself a human being anymore, and I do not consider myself a part of society. A misanthrope, I guess.
My back pain has been extreme without the muscle relaxing effects. These drugs have destroyed my whole entire life. It doesn't mean I can't rebuild a new life, just sucks knowing I'd have been somebody different all these years.
Stabilization means a return to panic disorder, having panic attacks daily and constant extreme anxiety. The question is how much worse it will be now that I have abused xanax, ativan, bromazepam, etizolam especially, valium... the only one I never abused and always wanted to be on was klonopin. Random benzos like nitrazepam, norflurazepam. And so on. I'm not so much worried about the withdrawal of this one because I can taper. I have supply concerns that could leave me dead, a lot of problems that are firing through my mind at rapid-fire pace now, and before this started I was already having a nervous breakdown.
I feel like when I had what I would call a psychotic break a number of years ago. But my biggest concern is not the recovery. As soon as I am out of the Prison of Drugs I will be good with the post-acute stuff because I live a healthy life other than the drug use. I don't know how long it will take to reduce my benzodiazepine dose to where it should be, but I'm pretty much done with drugs at this point. They are not done with me, though. I seem to be resilient when it comes to withdrawal and I think I can recover fast - then it is a matter of all the therapy and all that but that is for another day.
CBD is helping the benzo withdrawal, obviously. I heard someone cut their etizolam dose in half using it almost painlessly, but that is likely not going to be the case here as I have only heard of 2 or 3 people on the whole internet who take more etizolam than I do. And they were straight up suicidal. I have to take care of this problem now or I am simply going to die and leave behind a lot of unanswered questions and confusion since people think I am doing better being off opiates. I'm not. I wish I had been quitting this shit instead because in my view they are going to be the death of me.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2006
- Messages
- 65,043
Wow man 100mg a day? 
Yeah to be honest I think you should accept it's going to take you a long time to get past it, and commit to a long, slow taper. No more 25% reductions, that's not how you get free of benzos. If possible you should taper under medical supervision with a long-acting benzo... even if medical supervision is not feasible for whatever reason, I'd recommend you find yourself something with a much longer half-life than etizolam and commit to sticking to a consistent dose for as long as it takes to feel stable on it, then drop by, say, 10%, stick to that until you feel stable, drop another 10%, etc. It sucks but at least you can avoid these crises. It seems like you're bouncing back and forth between doses and getting nowhere, and it's because benzo withdrawal, like you say, is awful and dangerous. But people can and do get off benzos. It just takes a slow and steady taper. You got this, man, but you need to be regimented about it. 
Yeah to be honest I think you should accept it's going to take you a long time to get past it, and commit to a long, slow taper. No more 25% reductions, that's not how you get free of benzos. If possible you should taper under medical supervision with a long-acting benzo... even if medical supervision is not feasible for whatever reason, I'd recommend you find yourself something with a much longer half-life than etizolam and commit to sticking to a consistent dose for as long as it takes to feel stable on it, then drop by, say, 10%, stick to that until you feel stable, drop another 10%, etc. It sucks but at least you can avoid these crises. It seems like you're bouncing back and forth between doses and getting nowhere, and it's because benzo withdrawal, like you say, is awful and dangerous. But people can and do get off benzos. It just takes a slow and steady taper. You got this, man, but you need to be regimented about it. ShroomySatori
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2015
- Messages
- 2,935
Steady tapers and transitions don't work for me. I'm stable enough on etizolam if I'm not stupid with it. I don't want any non-prescribed drugs in my life, and I can get off etizolam quickly and be left with a small amount of valium daily for the rest of my ruined life. That would be nice. I understand what is considered to be the ideal way to get off benzos, but that is not how my life personally works. I am presently enslaved by this drug to the point that it has taken my spirit. I just don't do anything anymore and everything has been building up for so many years that I just don't want to live, y'know, what's the point if this is my life.
There is a point of no return in the world of drugs. I do believe this and I am reaching it. I think I reached it before I even used a benzo or an opiate all those years ago, and decided to postpone things and I did have a really fun 5 years. I even expected a 5 year life expectancy when I was deciding whether or not to try heroin when I had been living with completely untreated extreme thoracic spine pain for 2 years. Even had jobs and a girlfriend, I was happy back then. Happiest time of my life, I was snorting H and taking benzos and my back pain and panic attacks were all of a sudden gone and I had my life back. I always knew I was borrowing time and making things worse, now I feel old and worn out and I've missed out on so much I find it hard to communicate now.
I lived in exile in the forest for a year. Now that sounds fun and all, but it was essentially a punishment when I was younger. I had to run away. My girlfriend the one who really knew me for 5 years and also growing up we just weren't together, well she didn't think I was going to make it to 30. Anyways. She always said she could really notice how that fucked my head up and how stupid it was that even happened. I was crying alone in the forest with nobody around for miles. The only time I came in contact with anyone would be when stocking up on food.
There is a point of no return in the world of drugs. I do believe this and I am reaching it. I think I reached it before I even used a benzo or an opiate all those years ago, and decided to postpone things and I did have a really fun 5 years. I even expected a 5 year life expectancy when I was deciding whether or not to try heroin when I had been living with completely untreated extreme thoracic spine pain for 2 years. Even had jobs and a girlfriend, I was happy back then. Happiest time of my life, I was snorting H and taking benzos and my back pain and panic attacks were all of a sudden gone and I had my life back. I always knew I was borrowing time and making things worse, now I feel old and worn out and I've missed out on so much I find it hard to communicate now.
I lived in exile in the forest for a year. Now that sounds fun and all, but it was essentially a punishment when I was younger. I had to run away. My girlfriend the one who really knew me for 5 years and also growing up we just weren't together, well she didn't think I was going to make it to 30. Anyways. She always said she could really notice how that fucked my head up and how stupid it was that even happened. I was crying alone in the forest with nobody around for miles. The only time I came in contact with anyone would be when stocking up on food.
Last edited:
freesolo123
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2018
- Messages
- 490
Shroomy I can offer you some advice and maybe help you with a Benzo withdrawal as I have been through Its, I was on Clonazepam for a year buit up to 6mg a day and I am Benzo free today after a 2 year taper.
Ok, Benzo withdrawal never gets anywhere near as painful as a Heroin withdrawal and I have been through both, The issue is that it takes a long time and can become your whole life if you allow it take over. You need to get on a stable dose of a long acting benzo like Diazepam and move at your own pace, its not a race to get off.
Don't red up on horror stories as I believe a lot of the problem with Benzo's is that people read up on it and they expect it to be horrific when it isn't, I hear people worrying about seizures and all types of side effects and shake my head, the chance of you having a seizure on a slow regimented taper is virtually zero. I dropped down from 6mg - 1mg of clonazepam in a year and it wasn't that bad and then I switched to 30mg Diazepam and did a year taper which was only difficult in the last 10mg and a lot of that was self created worry and me expecting it to be bad.
Insomnia was helped with Mirtazapine in my case but only in the final 10mg, other than that exercise and stay active you can't sit about or you will do your own head in, If you make a mistake and take too much one day just go back to your original dose, i made had a few days where I took more than I should fo a hangver and was fine the only time I think it would matter is at the end of your taper when you have to be very strict,
Ok, Benzo withdrawal never gets anywhere near as painful as a Heroin withdrawal and I have been through both, The issue is that it takes a long time and can become your whole life if you allow it take over. You need to get on a stable dose of a long acting benzo like Diazepam and move at your own pace, its not a race to get off.
Don't red up on horror stories as I believe a lot of the problem with Benzo's is that people read up on it and they expect it to be horrific when it isn't, I hear people worrying about seizures and all types of side effects and shake my head, the chance of you having a seizure on a slow regimented taper is virtually zero. I dropped down from 6mg - 1mg of clonazepam in a year and it wasn't that bad and then I switched to 30mg Diazepam and did a year taper which was only difficult in the last 10mg and a lot of that was self created worry and me expecting it to be bad.
Insomnia was helped with Mirtazapine in my case but only in the final 10mg, other than that exercise and stay active you can't sit about or you will do your own head in, If you make a mistake and take too much one day just go back to your original dose, i made had a few days where I took more than I should fo a hangver and was fine the only time I think it would matter is at the end of your taper when you have to be very strict,
Squeaky
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2016
- Messages
- 1,993
My experience with opiates, benzos, lyrica.......
Tapering absolutely works. Its just hard if you dont have someone to hold your pills. As you said , taking more than you should for a hangover. Every time I go backwards I fail because I decide its too hard.
Shroomi has the same problem I am having. The one that PainfulOne seems to have solved. Nobody to help us without judging.
Unclejocko- you must be one strong SOB to make it through a year long taper off anything that you once enjoyed. I have tapered off benzos only because I dont get high from them. In fact now I really dont like the way they make me feel. I was tapering well on Loperamide because I dont like it. Oxy is a whole other story.
Tapering absolutely works. Its just hard if you dont have someone to hold your pills. As you said , taking more than you should for a hangover. Every time I go backwards I fail because I decide its too hard.
Shroomi has the same problem I am having. The one that PainfulOne seems to have solved. Nobody to help us without judging.
Unclejocko- you must be one strong SOB to make it through a year long taper off anything that you once enjoyed. I have tapered off benzos only because I dont get high from them. In fact now I really dont like the way they make me feel. I was tapering well on Loperamide because I dont like it. Oxy is a whole other story.
freesolo123
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2018
- Messages
- 490
I stayed on Daily pick up till the end and maybe you could look into that? unless of course your drugs are not prescribed.
Painful One
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
- Messages
- 4,152
Oh I haven't solved the problem of having anyone to help me who does not judge me. That is for sure.
I am exiled from my own family. For what? Because I have injuries and live in chronic pain. My mom has just seen how bad my pain gets and I am at the point where I absolutely cannot go one day without morphine.
So she helps me most by giving me a daily dosage of my medications.
Looks like I'm going to have to kill my self though. I am in too much pain and my quality of life is shit. I have been continuously denied disability benefits for the last ten years. Now my mom is going down financially and nobody will take her in with "me".
I just heard her say that on the phone. I'm so tired of being judged but no one offers a bit of help either.
Why am I a bad person because I got hurt in a car accident and am now disabled and require pain medication?
Why can't I get the benefits I worked my ass off my entire life and paid disability insurance etc.
No one ever says a kind word to me. Not that I see many people but I am just done. I'm not speaking anymore and I want to be euthanized.
I am exiled from my own family. For what? Because I have injuries and live in chronic pain. My mom has just seen how bad my pain gets and I am at the point where I absolutely cannot go one day without morphine.
So she helps me most by giving me a daily dosage of my medications.
Looks like I'm going to have to kill my self though. I am in too much pain and my quality of life is shit. I have been continuously denied disability benefits for the last ten years. Now my mom is going down financially and nobody will take her in with "me".
I just heard her say that on the phone. I'm so tired of being judged but no one offers a bit of help either.
Why am I a bad person because I got hurt in a car accident and am now disabled and require pain medication?
Why can't I get the benefits I worked my ass off my entire life and paid disability insurance etc.
No one ever says a kind word to me. Not that I see many people but I am just done. I'm not speaking anymore and I want to be euthanized.
Last edited:
Squeaky
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2016
- Messages
- 1,993
PainfulOne- I am so sorry to hear you are suffering this much. I have been in your position many times. I never attempted suicide, but I have come so close as to write the note at least 20 times (the first time I must have been around 10 years old). Thankfully I made it through every time. I still struggle though, and it hurts.
I have disowned my whole family. Mom, Dad, Siblings, Grandparents, Etc....... disowned each one for various reasons. (Too long of a conversation for this forum). Heres my bit of advice on the subject:
Everyone sucks. You are an amazing person, and anyone who chooses to ignore that fact can go to hell. We need more people like you in the world. Definitely not less.
Dont leave us. Your life is a gift. Not only to you but to the people in the world who rely on your kind words for hope. If you werent here, helping us through, who knows where each of us would be. Please stay. I would miss you.
I have disowned my whole family. Mom, Dad, Siblings, Grandparents, Etc....... disowned each one for various reasons. (Too long of a conversation for this forum). Heres my bit of advice on the subject:
Everyone sucks. You are an amazing person, and anyone who chooses to ignore that fact can go to hell. We need more people like you in the world. Definitely not less.
Dont leave us. Your life is a gift. Not only to you but to the people in the world who rely on your kind words for hope. If you werent here, helping us through, who knows where each of us would be. Please stay. I would miss you.
Painful One
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
- Messages
- 4,152
Well, thank you Squeaky. Love you too bro.
Luckily or unluckily God won't let me out of here until he decides it is time so I don't even think I could actually blow my head off to escape this. Miracles always happen to save me somehow. For what, I have no idea.
I guess I will have to just trust him to keep taking care of me somehow, someway with absolutely zero money.
I always seem to have what I need. For that, I am grateful.
Luckily or unluckily God won't let me out of here until he decides it is time so I don't even think I could actually blow my head off to escape this. Miracles always happen to save me somehow. For what, I have no idea.
I guess I will have to just trust him to keep taking care of me somehow, someway with absolutely zero money.
I always seem to have what I need. For that, I am grateful.
Painful One
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
- Messages
- 4,152
uncle_jocko
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2018
- Messages
- 55
Thanks for the props, Squeaky. But thus far, my taper has only been about 5 weeks. After around 8 years of sobriety, I relapsed around March/April ... and it never got that bad (which is good). But, because it didn't get that bad this time around, there is a part of me that's saying, "WTF - these feel GREAT - why the taper?". But, I've told some good friends so I can be accountable. I know the dark side of this addiction, and I can't allow myself to go there. This taper will be a bit difficult at times, but luckily, I've only been back on Oxy for 5 months or so ... and my doc only gave me 120 pills per month anyway. So, it never got bad this time around. But everything is relative: If I don't "get up and MOVE around" each day (especially when I'm not working), I will isolate, get depressed, etc. So, I need to stay positive and healthy! Coming to these forums is just another step into the light for me.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2006
- Messages
- 65,043
This post illustrates why it is essential to do a very slow and steady taper with benzos. The reason you didn't find it anywhere near as bad as heroin and are able to shake your head at the idea of people having seizures is only because you took 2 years to taper (which was very smart of you and is the appropriate way to do it). When you taper the proper way, it's not too bad, and you don't risk a seizure or anything and you mostly feel stable except maybe a few days around whenever you drop the dose, you might feel kind of bad. However, had you tried to drop 25% a week, or had to go cold turkey, it would have become a medical emergency. When people are not stopping benzos the right way, it's horrific, much worse than opiates (by all accounts... I have never been addicted to benzos myself, just opiates).
FlawedByDesign
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 1,894
^Have you tried tapering with ativan? I know most people prefer longer acting meds for a taper but my problem is I enjoy all other benzos too much to properly taper. I fucking hate ativan but has helped me taper from insanely high doses of super potent RC benzos 3 separate times when nothing else could all because for me it has zero recreational value. I find a good dose to hold me over and spilt it into an AM and PM dose. Just finished my taper yesterday actually and feel pretty ok. Just gotta Watch my phenibut intake and I’ll be golden.
Squeaky
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2016
- Messages
- 1,993
Yeah, my experience has led me to decide that the best way to taper is to be using something you dont like. For me its Loperamide to taper off opiates. I hate that stuff, but it stops my withdrawls.
I have decided that I really dont like Ativan. It works in emergencies for a panic attack. But daily use just sucks. So tapering off benzos with it is simple.
Shroomi- do you have access to a variety of benzos? If so, is there one that would stop you from having these crushing withdrawals but you really wouldnt abuse if you could?
I have decided that I really dont like Ativan. It works in emergencies for a panic attack. But daily use just sucks. So tapering off benzos with it is simple.
Shroomi- do you have access to a variety of benzos? If so, is there one that would stop you from having these crushing withdrawals but you really wouldnt abuse if you could?
FlawedByDesign
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 1,894
No one who is actively trying to get better could be considered a loser. Etizolam really is a different beast though, aint it? Shorter acting and much more euphoric than actual benzos. Don?t mean to bombard you with suggestions but from what I remember you are located north of the US so you probably still have access to diclazepam. Its 42 hour half-life really does make it the Mecca of tapering benzos. Much less euphoric than Etiz and one dose will hold you for well over 24 hours (not to mention it?s usually cheaper). I?m definitely feeling your pain regarding the coffee. I may have escaped with minimal w/d but the amount of caffeine I require just to avoid a headache greatly exacerbates my symptoms. We got this though!!
uncle_jocko
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2018
- Messages
- 55
Hey gang - I thought I'd throw this out there ... hoping I can get a few responses: As I've shared, I'm down to 22.5 mgs of Oxy a day. That said, I'm wondering what the best (if there, indeed is a "best) method of tapering is. For example, should I take small amounts (2.5mg) throughout the day? Of should I take larger amounts, but further apart from each other? I mean, I could take 7.5 mgs three times a day. Or again, smaller amounts, but more frequently. Any feedback would be appreciated. 
Squeaky
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2016
- Messages
- 1,993
Your best bet is to avoid serious withdrawals while seriously avoiding any positive effects. The farther you are from any memory of getting high, the easier it is to avoid a relapse.
That said..... smaller doses more frequently would be my advice for a long term taper (for me it might be wiser to jump off cold turkey from where you are becausr the stress of counting pills for months woukd definitely cause a relapse!). Its hard to get 2 mg from a 10 mg perc, so youll have to balance your plans with your available pills.
That said..... smaller doses more frequently would be my advice for a long term taper (for me it might be wiser to jump off cold turkey from where you are becausr the stress of counting pills for months woukd definitely cause a relapse!). Its hard to get 2 mg from a 10 mg perc, so youll have to balance your plans with your available pills.
- Status