Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

[P0kemama]

Im tapering as fast as I can.

Hi Squeaky, Good to see you here.

 

[Xorkoth]

Not only does high-dose loperamide develop physical dependence (the withdrawal lasts a long time since the half-life is so long), but a number of users on Bluelight have reported themselves or loved ones either ending up in the hospital in serious condition from heart attacks, or even dying (2 members posted about their partners dropping dead from heart failure due to extended loperamide abuse). Loperamide is unusual in the opiates in that it messes with the heart's QT interval and causes damage over time and can even lead to death. I still recommend it as a comfort med in 20-40mg doses to help take away many of the withdrawal symptoms of opiates, but only as little as needed and only for as short a time as possible, until the acute withdrawals are past, before you develop a loperamide dependency. Long-term use of high-dose loperamide is very dangerous.

I do not believe that the recommended dosage for diarrhea relief has the same issues, as it takes a higher dose of loperamide to produce central opiate effects.

 

[Painful One]

Just for the record. I was not using loperamide for an "extended period of time".
I used it a few days 2-3 days during morphine withdrawal about 6 times out of a year.
When short on my morphine prescription.
I have been having a hard time making my prescription last the entire month this year.
I never noticed any bad effects when switching back to my morphine prescription except that it seemed to have some kind of blocking effect on my morphine. It made it not as effective.

This last time, I ran out of medication ten days early. I went on a vacation and had a visitor through July and I had to keep myself going. I had never felt much effects from the loperamide before. I used it for ten days, starting at 48 mg and quickly tapered to 10 mg over ten days time! I did not use it - extended abuse!

I used it exactly as you still recommend for people in acute opiate withdrawal. But I still ended up having serious withdrawal from loperamide and I mean serious withdrawal! It is still flaring up on me at times. Last loperamide usage was 10 mg on 08-12-2018.

I have not been taking it for years or even months. Days- here and there, with weeks in between of no usage.
I was only using it for the inevitable days where one whom lives with chronic pain and injury is bound to run out of medication here and there!!

 

[uncle_jocko]

Hello my friends - I'm a new member here, but an old-timer as far as my relationship with opiates is concerned. I'll get straight to it: I battled with addiction ten years ago, went to rehab, did the 12 Step dance for 8 years, and had a relapse about six months ago. The good news - it didn't get THAT bad - I stuck to taking Percocet (as opposed to Oxycontin) ... and I've weaned down to 25mg a day. I'm a college professor, and quite simply, and can't do another rehab. I have a full load of seminars this year, etc. My plan is to taper about 5mgs every two weeks; therefore, next week I'll go to 20mg a day. Any feedback out there? I'm teaching in front of many students a day, I have a positive reputation at my college; and yet, I'm told by many of my old 12-Step friends that there's NO WAY a slow taper can work. I guess I'm wondering what other people have done to slowly taper successfully? I need to keep up the energy, need to be "present and positive" for lectures, and I can't afford to go through big withdrawals at this point in my career. Any feedback would be helpful - and thanks in advance.

 

[ShroomySatori]

Not only does high-dose loperamide develop physical dependence (the withdrawal lasts a long time since the half-life is so long), but a number of users on Bluelight have reported themselves or loved ones either ending up in the hospital in serious condition from heart attacks, or even dying (2 members posted about their partners dropping dead from heart failure due to extended loperamide abuse). Loperamide is unusual in the opiates in that it messes with the heart's QT interval and causes damage over time and can even lead to death. I still recommend it as a comfort med in 20-40mg doses to help take away many of the withdrawal symptoms of opiates, but only as little as needed and only for as short a time as possible, until the acute withdrawals are past, before you develop a loperamide dependency. Long-term use of high-dose loperamide is very dangerous.

I do not believe that the recommended dosage for diarrhea relief has the same issues, as it takes a higher dose of loperamide to produce central opiate effects.

I am happy to see you continue to emphasize these truths regarding loperamide. I'd recommend like 2mg so you can make it to the toilet in time.

 

[Painful One]

Hello my friends - I'm a new member here, but an old-timer as far as my relationship with opiates is concerned. I'll get straight to it: I battled with addiction ten years ago, went to rehab, did the 12 Step dance for 8 years, and had a relapse about six months ago. The good news - it didn't get THAT bad - I stuck to taking Percocet (as opposed to Oxycontin) ... and I've weaned down to 25mg a day. I'm a college professor, and quite simply, and can't do another rehab. I have a full load of seminars this year, etc. My plan is to taper about 5mgs every two weeks; therefore, next week I'll go to 20mg a day. Any feedback out there? I'm teaching in front of many students a day, I have a positive reputation at my college; and yet, I'm told by many of my old 12-Step friends that there's NO WAY a slow taper can work. I guess I'm wondering what other people have done to slowly taper successfully? I need to keep up the energy, need to be "present and positive" for lectures, and I can't afford to go through big withdrawals at this point in my career. Any feedback would be helpful - and thanks in advance.

Hello my friend,

A slow taper would be your best bet. Take it real slow and when it starts getting too bad for you then back off the taper and hold where you are. I think the key to tapering is to move the dosage down just slightly and hold for awhile on that dosage. Wait for your body to adjust. Then try to taper a very small amount again and hold.

I wish you luck. Please let us know how it goes.

 

[ShroomySatori]

Larimar, I recall you recommended that I try the oils to stop smoking so much. I finally got enough money together to do that and have more of my prescription.

I got THC and CBD oils and really high quality ones too. Expensive, but whatever. A gram of a cannabinoid in oil is quite a bit. And I got some very nice sativa weed. Just waiting on it that's how it works here. I get lab data on the strains produced but what I hear of the oils is nothing but good. All their weed I've had has been like alien-weed it is so potent and aromatic so I don't doubt their oils are the shit! You can't dab or vape them it's a tincture I believe, to use sublingually. Probably better than filling my lungs with over 1000 chemicals all day.

Bong is like trying to control pain with dilaudid it just doesn't work. Too short acting. I'll have the cannabinoids in my system whenever now. It will be particularly good to reduce associated agoraphobia because I need something strong like a high grade medical oil or the bong. So it's hard for me to leave for longer than 6 hours without weed right now and that won't be a problem anymore... being too high might, though. I've never really been excited about a medication before that I didn't know much about but I really am for the CBD! I'll have to report if there is any associated pain relief as it is still a relatively new drug.

I think the oils are going to help me a lot and they are blessed. No wrong was done by myself to acquire them. Hopefully that helps with all of the instability and these problems because I seem to be mellow when I'm stoned all the time. Got a good deal too and it's been real expensive for me this year.

Wishing you well. Just dropping by I wrote you too painful on I'm real baked.

 

[Squeaky]

Believe it or not I still recommend tapering with Loperamide. Especially from a low Percocet use of only 25 mgs per day. This is why.
When I try to taper off oxy, I know that I have a full bottle and or access to get more. Why not take one more before this seminar? Just once. I really need a boost. Ill go back to my tapering schedule tomorrow. In fact I will take one less tomorrow to make up for the extra one I used today.

Sound familiar?

Tomorrow you feel like its ok to take more because obviously your tolerance is higher from the extra one yesterday. How could I be expected to suffer through the extra withdrawals? Ill take the extra one today and get right on track with my taper schedule.

Then the car breaks down, or my inlaws show up. Then Im taking more just to stop from killing someone and Im back to taking even more than I started. After two days of that my tolerance is higher than ever and I am quickly running out of pills with which to do my taper.
Better go buy more.

The best plan for any taper us to have someone you trust to hold and ration your pills. But since we are all in the closet about our addiction....... Enter Loperamide

Loperamide works. Its really hard to catch a buzz from it. It leaves you constipated beyond belief. You can get it anywhere. It tastes like crap and makes your body feel and smell strange. You never take extra lope because you dont like it and you want to be done as soon as possible.

Yes long term high use will damage your heart. But short term use for tapering off opiates is s blessing if you cant go to rehab and you dont want anybody to know whats going on. As an added bonus, it seems to take up all of the parking spaces for your opiate receptors, so if you do try to cheat and take a couple if your old Percocets you will find that you dont get high. You just waste good pills. ( so its not great for bridging till your next oxy script). Also, nobody in the real world knows any of this, so your pill bottle of anti-diarrhea medication goes completely unnoticed.

It takes about 3 days to settle into your new dosing plan on Loperamide. During that time you are depressed, but your physical symptoms are basically zero if done correctly. After that you just try not to think about how much it all sucks until youre done. You can taper as long as you like( the last 30 mg/day is really hard). Nobody ever died on 20 mg/day lope for a year.

What matters more than anything is what is in your heart. If you dont really want to quit then most plans/rehabs ultimately fail. But if you focus on short term goals of getting off the pills, then tapering will work if you have help. Lope will work if you have a plan. Suboxone will work if you have s good doctor.

 

[Painful One]

Great news on the oils ShroomySatori and I think they will help a lot.
Weed really seems to help you.
I hope the oils are wonderful to you!

Yeah, I agree Squeaky. I just think the loperamide is a lot stronger than we had suspected and lasts a lot longer also.
People have to be careful not to get stuck on that. I think it is pretty much the same concept as tapering with anything.

http://www.helpmegetoffdrugs.com/taper
This article talks about "tapering down suboxone"
But you could put any drug in there and follow that process and you would be pretty much alright the whole time.

I think where I messed up and where it specifically explains that the medical people thought the same as I did.
We thought it did not seem reasonable to taper it any further down but that is a mistake.
Why take so long to taper down those final 10mg and especially the final 2 mg! That seems to be the key!
Every person who has actually experienced those kind of long acting, strong medications say the final 2 mg is the worst.
Seems best to listen to your body and go very slow.

I would give that way a try my friends. Because jumping off at 10 mg loperamide hurt like no other opiate withdrawal ever.
I am still not right from it yet!

 

[Xorkoth]

Just for the record. I was not using loperamide for an "extended period of time".
I used it a few days 2-3 days during morphine withdrawal about 6 times out of a year.
When short on my morphine prescription.
I have been having a hard time making my prescription last the entire month this year.
I never noticed any bad effects when switching back to my morphine prescription except that it seemed to have some kind of blocking effect on my morphine. It made it not as effective.

This last time, I ran out of medication ten days early. I went on a vacation and had a visitor through July and I had to keep myself going. I had never felt much effects from the loperamide before. I used it for ten days, starting at 48 mg and quickly tapered to 10 mg over ten days time! I did not use it - extended abuse!

I used it exactly as you still recommend for people in acute opiate withdrawal. But I still ended up having serious withdrawal from loperamide and I mean serious withdrawal! It is still flaring up on me at times. Last loperamide usage was 10 mg on 08-12-2018.

I have not been taking it for years or even months. Days- here and there, with weeks in between of no usage.
I was only using it for the inevitable days where one whom lives with chronic pain and injury is bound to run out of medication here and there!!

Oh wow, that's troubling news. When I used loperamide to taper, I would use it up to 5 or 7 days in a row and then end up going back to other opiates for a while and then do it again, sometimes every couple of weeks. I never developed loperamide dependence but I did start to feel very unhealthy after 5 to 7 days, like dried out inside, weak, a sort of sickly feeling. Which is about half the reason I'd go back to other opiates fully.

I guess for all I know I did develop some dependence, it's just I was never without opiates or loperamide so maybe I just couldn't tell.

 

[Squeaky]

I feel the same using Loperamide for a week or two, then back to opiates. I havent been right since I discovered my miracle cure. The next month I am quitting lope for good I hope and going back to oxy.

But since Im not that smart, I just restocked 1200 lope pills......... just in case they outlaw the stuff.

 

[ShroomySatori]

Yeah the medical cannabis I have always needed for so many things as I began to become ill, from digestion, to sleep, to depression, to social anxiety, to adhd (which I think I have, anyway, it's pretty damn obvious after talking to friends who have it).

I have never tried these 20mg/mL THC and CBD oils before. There will be an adjustment period since I can't possibly know my specific tolerance to THC by combusting weed. And then I will be experimenting with different ratios of THC:CBD. I am going to start with testing them both individually. I'm really excited in fact. As a cannabis concentrate enthusiast I have never seen anything like this before. I always dabbed hash oil or vaporized pure THC-A, wouldn't have been interested in orally active only THC but I really am now. I think it will help and Ill still be smoking a bit just less.

 

[Painful One]

I feel the same using Loperamide for a week or two, then back to opiates. I havent been right since I discovered my miracle cure. The next month I am quitting lope for good I hope and going back to oxy.

But since Im not that smart, I just restocked 1200 lope pills......... just in case they outlaw the stuff.

LMAO!!

I am going to just try and stick with my prescription medications. Even though that means I get into unbelievable pain at times and go through other miserable things and my quality of life sucks.

So that makes it hard.

Things were probably made worse for me in August by also getting my tolerance back down to my regular prescribed dosage of MS Contin. My July was pretty dang fun though. I desperately needed some fun so I guess I will try and suck it up and get through the fall out. Lol!

Thank God refill day is very soon.

You doing okay after ten day with no oxy Squeaky?

 

[uncle_jocko]

Thanks so much for the response ... it's nice to have a place to talk 100% openly about this taper. Oddly enough, Friday (when I wrote my post) was my "free day". What I mean by that is that if I taper successfully throughout the week, then I give myself a treat on Friday. Well, as you can imagine my friends, it doesn't always work out. For example, instead of taking 35mgs (just 10 more mg. than my 25 mg taper), I took 60 on Friday. And I was beating myself up all weekend. I'm back to 25mgs, but I do see my doctor on Thursday. I'm going to ask for 5mg Percocet (as opposed to 10mg), but I'm also wondering if any of you can suggest any other kind of medication to help ease withdrawals. My doctor respects me, and I think he'll probably accommodate any request I have (such as a muscle relaxer or anything else to assist with my taper). I know tapering off 25mgs probably doesn't sound like a lot, but my predicament is that I have to be ON in front of my audience. I'm angry that I put myself in this situation - I knew better ... but beating myself up isn't going to help not. Anyway, thanks for reading this - and thanks for providing a space for me to be 100% honest - at least I don't feel alone.

 

[Squeaky]

Unclejocko- your Friday treat may be keeping you from your goals. Like saving all of your money all week, just to go out on Friday night and spend it all. You just start every week in exactly the same spot- broke.
My advice: dont ask your Dr for less than you are already getting. If you have 10 mg Percocet you can break it in half and flush the other half if you need to. Getting your Dr to raise you back to 10mg from 5mg in the future may be impossible. For me its a bridge that you might not want to burn.

Im doing fine 15 days without my oxy. Thanks to Loperamide. Im stuck at 40 mg-60 mg per day though. The wds trying to taper off this crap are pretty uncomfortable.

 

[hikfromstik]

Thanks so much for the response ... it's nice to have a place to talk 100% openly about this taper. Oddly enough, Friday (when I wrote my post) was my "free day". What I mean by that is that if I taper successfully throughout the week, then I give myself a treat on Friday. Well, as you can imagine my friends, it doesn't always work out. For example, instead of taking 35mgs (just 10 more mg. than my 25 mg taper), I took 60 on Friday. And I was beating myself up all weekend. I'm back to 25mgs, but I do see my doctor on Thursday. I'm going to ask for 5mg Percocet (as opposed to 10mg), but I'm also wondering if any of you can suggest any other kind of medication to help ease withdrawals. My doctor respects me, and I think he'll probably accommodate any request I have (such as a muscle relaxer or anything else to assist with my taper). I know tapering off 25mgs probably doesn't sound like a lot, but my predicament is that I have to be ON in front of my audience. I'm angry that I put myself in this situation - I knew better ... but beating myself up isn't going to help not. Anyway, thanks for reading this - and thanks for providing a space for me to be 100% honest - at least I don't feel alone.

Gabapentin worked for me . I also took clonidine for the most intense days. The clonidine is a blood pressure med that is an adrenal blocker that helps the body calm a bit during withdrawal. Gabapentin will help calm you too . Both have their ups and downs. Clonidine will cause rebound high blood after discontinuation. Gabapentin can be habit forming after prolonged use . Gabapentin didnt feel good too me , so as soon as my acute withdrawal was over I stopped them with no problem. I hope this helps .

 

[Squeaky]

A lot of people have good results from Lyrica as well. Some have reported here in BlueLight that either Gabapentin of Lyrica calmed their opiate wds completely.

 

[Xorkoth]

I found gabapentin to help a good bit, whereas Lyrica nearly entirely masked them. Both are physically addictive though, so like other "masking" methods, you should use the absolute minimum for the shortest amount of time possible. Honestly gabapentin is kind of a weird drug, but Lyrica (pregabalin) was one of the best highs I've ever had. It would be easy to trade one addiction for another. I only had enough to use it 4 times or I might have kept using it.

 

[uncle_jocko]

Thanks for the feedback, Squeaky ... and all the rest of you as well. I'm still thinking on asking the doc for a lower dosage, as he already knows my "pain" has subsided, for the most part. What's more, I'll be able to break the 5mgs in half, which is almost impossible to do with breaking the 10mgs into quarters. Regardless, I truly appreciate the feedback from you all. And "hikfromstik", thanks for the feedback regarding withdrawal meds ... it's much appreciated.

 

[ShroomySatori]

Have had serious health problems for over 6 years now. For longer than that, but I mean the type that can ruin your life and end it prematurely while being too messed up from suffering so much to realize what is going on most of the time. The type that make you pretty much totally non-functional. There was always something wrong, but that time period is when things started to get really bad. A little earlier in fact. I would say 2010 was the turning point. I haven't cared so much about my life since then, and it seems like I have given up a lot of the time. Going through the motions, it feels like I'm in a waiting room bored. Waiting for whatever comes next.

The cannabis oils work really well so far. Both the CBD and the THC. I am going to try and give my lungs a bit of a break. They work remarkably well, in fact.

I think that CBD is a good anti-inflammatory or painkiller or something because my back has been hell lately and it didn't bother me at all yesterday, plus I passed out early and missed a taper dose. I can't comment much on it yet, except that it seems to be really good medicine that definitely interacts with THC. Can't jump to conclusions but it's weird my back doesn't hurt. Then I will have more incentive to get back in yoga and I am planning on going tomorrow.

I have been a brat with the etizolam but that's the way she goes sometimes. So I have an increased tolerance, rebound anxiety, and a lower supply now. You would think an intelligent man could learn back on track though with the timing.