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  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0

Fertile said:
BTW anyone else suspicious of how the DEA and other agencies supposedly responsible for the control of illegal drugs cannot stop fentanyl? I had presumed that a new analogue would appear every week to avoid the law, but it seems that plain vanilla fentanyl is the majority of the market. It's almost like they seek to stop Afghan heroin by ensuring that a cheaper products is more readily available. After 'Air America', we KNOW how dubious their tactics are. I can see how it would work on a practical level. Now are they allowing it, assisting it or actually taking money from it?
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Heroin is imported, so it’s easier to stop it at the border. Fentanyl can be made in your bathroom or out in the woods. It’s harder to stop something that began it’s life inside of the iron curtain. Fent is also a bit easier to conceal because of how potent it is in very small doses. AND the drug cartels have a HUGE profit margin on fent, so they can afford to lose more of it to law enforcement and thus throw much more at the border.

All it takes is a drought in Afghanistan and the heroin supply dies out. Fent can be made in unlimited quantities all year round.
 
I think gabapentin helps taken at half hour intervals, some people say take food with it, I say take without food. Whatever you did last time, do the other this time, it might help your guts cope better. So will loperamide 2mg tablets.
Other things you might have access to are high strength vitamin c and kratom (yuk). Just watch the kratom, I got dependant in a few weeks and was sicker than I ever been on opies coming off it. Anti nausea tablets, my favourite is cyclizine.
The high strength vit c is in an article linked just a page back or so, I've tried it, with clonidine and gabapentin, it worked when I took loads, as soon as I stopped taking tablets all the time I got "uncomfortable".
 
Right now I'm shaking as I munch a curly wurly to help the pod tea down. I don't usually have a second coffee pot of it in the same day, I have "tea bags" with 5g each of powder after my initial dose first thing, but I'm celebrating TEN days off buprenorphine and I'm in a predictably good mood cause who doesn't prefer the real thing?
I have huge anxiety sometimes, didn't know bupe could cause it, but all I know about bupe is what I've learned here. I've only ever used my own buprenorphine prescribed to me by my doctor, but in the two years I've been getting it I've not actually seen the doctor, at the time they were closed for covid and I got it over the phone, but they're still not giving appointments, I still haven't got to sit and discuss it with any doctor at all, nowhere to ask my questions, I mean literally nowhere.
 
Squeaky said:
Loperamide works wonders too. Takes 4 hours to start working but lasts most of the day. Sold OTC as Immodium.
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I keep a pack of loperamide instants beside the bed, they go under the tongue, dissolve into the bloodstream and work straight away.
This morning I woke up with huge pupils for the first time in a year perhaps, that's ditching the bupe, it's finally getting out of my system and my pupils are no longer tiny!
 
Squeaky said:
Heroin is imported, so it’s easier to stop it at the border. Fentanyl can be made in your bathroom or out in the woods. It’s harder to stop something that began it’s life inside of the iron curtain. Fent is also a bit easier to conceal because of how potent it is in very small doses. AND the drug cartels have a HUGE profit margin on fent, so they can afford to lose more of it to law enforcement and thus throw much more at the border.

All it takes is a drought in Afghanistan and the heroin supply dies out. Fent can be made in unlimited quantities all year round.
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Yes, but fentanyl needs some very specific, very controlled chemicals. It's VERY easy to add something like 'Smartwater™' to find out WHERE these chemicals are coming from. It only need be a tiny amount (parts per billion) which wouldn't alter the quality of the chemicals. At some point the chemicals are diverted so it would be possible to find who is behind it.

It's only present in parts per billion so it's very cheap to do.

The fact it's plain vanilla fentanyl suggests that it isn't being made from scratch because their are several much stronger analogues that can be made in just the same way simply by substituting one pre-precursor.

There are some notable fentanyl intermediates that are inexplicably not controlled so someone could quite legally sell them. I've mentioned several holes in the law but it does require rather a lot of experience in the relevant chemistry. Propanoic anhydride is controlled, but propenoic propanoic anhydride is not (for example).

I mean, if you are making fentanyl from scratch, you may as well make 3-methyl fentanyl that is some x28 more potent. If nothing else, that would make it a much cheaper endeavour since your lab could be an order of magnitude smaller. Also, you only need to smuggle 1/28th as much, right?
No, this has been going on for too long and is far too widespread. What people don't seem to realise is that Russia has a huge opiate problem but in spite of the fact Russia has a MASSIVE boarder and onto many nations, well established smuggling routes.... heroin still costs more in Russia than in the US. Now in Russia there WERE many analogues - possibly hundreds of them. THAT is the pattern I would expect. The use of as many different reagents as possible and people making the strongest analogues.

Russia also has almost no HR. A few private HR clinics offering methadone, but in reality their is almost no help. So if the US stops buying H, smugglers will sell elsewhere.

BTW the average age of H found on UK streets in 5 years. In good years H is bought up & hidden by the big Afghan dealers so that their is always a supply. Shortages are often due to other aspects such as the large Afghan dealers having obtained better prices from another market.

I don't know if fentanyl is cheaper than H, but it's certainly cheaper (per dose) if one can obtain the precursors (rather than pre-precursors) at a decent price.
 
Fertile said:
Yes, but fentanyl needs some very specific, very controlled chemicals. It's VERY easy to add something like 'Smartwater™' to find out WHERE these chemicals are coming from. It only need be a tiny amount (parts per billion) which wouldn't alter the quality of the chemicals. At some point the chemicals are diverted so it would be possible to find who is behind it.

It's only present in parts per billion so it's very cheap to do.

The fact it's plain vanilla fentanyl suggests that it isn't being made from scratch because their are several much stronger analogues that can be made in just the same way simply by substituting one pre-precursor.

There are some notable fentanyl intermediates that are inexplicably not controlled so someone could quite legally sell them. I've mentioned several holes in the law but it does require rather a lot of experience in the relevant chemistry. Propanoic anhydride is controlled, but propenoic propanoic anhydride is not (for example).

I mean, if you are making fentanyl from scratch, you may as well make 3-methyl fentanyl that is some x28 more potent. If nothing else, that would make it a much cheaper endeavour since your lab could be an order of magnitude smaller. Also, you only need to smuggle 1/28th as much, right?
No, this has been going on for too long and is far too widespread. What people don't seem to realise is that Russia has a huge opiate problem but in spite of the fact Russia has a MASSIVE boarder and onto many nations, well established smuggling routes.... heroin still costs more in Russia than in the US. Now in Russia there WERE many analogues - possibly hundreds of them. THAT is the pattern I would expect. The use of as many different reagents as possible and people making the strongest analogues.

Russia also has almost no HR. A few private HR clinics offering methadone, but in reality their is almost no help. So if the US stops buying H, smugglers will sell elsewhere.

BTW the average age of H found on UK streets in 5 years. In good years H is bought up & hidden by the big Afghan dealers so that their is always a supply. Shortages are often due to other aspects such as the large Afghan dealers having obtained better prices from another market.

I don't know if fentanyl is cheaper than H, but it's certainly cheaper (per dose) if one can obtain the precursors (rather than pre-precursors) at a decent price.
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Sounds like you know your stuff!

Russia is so close to Afghanistan, and there’s a huge incentive for a poor farmer to put it on the back of a donkey to walk it across the border in the desert. Putin probably likes his people addicted anyway. And they can get codeine pretty easily at a pharmacy (even though it’s illegal) to make krockidil. The documentaries on that crap are disturbing.
 

If you compare the US, EU & Russian experiences of fentanyl, they differ greatly. In the

US 'plain vanilla' fentanyl (N-phenyl-N-[1-(2-phenylethyl)piperidin-4-yl]propanamide) is the analog encountered 99% of the time. 'Super Labs' in Mexico are supposed to be responsible for the bulk of production. It's worth noting that it's POSSIBLE to eyeball plain vanilla fentanyl, at least for people with a reasonable tolerance. I mean, fake Oxycodone 30mg ('dirty thirtys') contain upto 15mg of fentanyl!

EU sees all of the analogues that keep turning up to get around Chinese law. Almost all of them only differ in 1 precursor and so I'm betting ANPP isn't controlled (it isn't active or even that toxic) and a few large companies are supplying tonnes of the stuff and all of the grey-market chemists are just finding new analogues - most LESS potent than fentanyl.

Russia has seen a lot of the more potent analogues. I know 3-methyl fentanyl, thiofentanyl, beta-hydroxy fentanyl, alpha methyl fentanyl and so forth.
It may be of interest to know that the original US clandestine fentanyl chemist, George Marquardt solely made alpha methyl fentanyl. The reason being it's x120 morphine (50% more potent than plain vanilla) but importantly, it's duration is similar to heroin. It was sold as an active cut. Many died.

But I would expect the US market to mirror the Russian one. But it doesn't. Lots of kitchen chemists but no HUGE producers because anyone making THAT much money would be (or SHOULD be) the DEAs number 1 target. But the DEA plays down arrests of large labs.... and plays up arrests of small ones.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it has to be said that Russia has NO HR, a population less than half of that of the USA and yet multiple studies show that their death-toll reached 100,000 in 2014......
 
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papercuts said:
I keep a pack of loperamide instants beside the bed, they go under the tongue, dissolve into the bloodstream and work straight away.
This morning I woke up with huge pupils for the first time in a year perhaps, that's ditching the bupe, it's finally getting out of my system and my pupils are no longer tiny!
Click to expand...
Tried ecstasy once. My pupils were so huge I looked like a character from a horror movie
 
Fertile said:

If you compare the US, EU & Russian experiences of fentanyl, they differ greatly. In the

US 'plain vanilla' fentanyl (N-phenyl-N-[1-(2-phenylethyl)piperidin-4-yl]propanamide) is the analog encountered 99% of the time. 'Super Labs' in Mexico are supposed to be responsible for the bulk of production. It's worth noting that it's POSSIBLE to eyeball plain vanilla fentanyl, at least for people with a reasonable tolerance. I mean, fake Oxycodone 30mg ('dirty thirtys') contain upto 15mg of fentanyl!

EU sees all of the analogues that keep turning up to get around Chinese law. Almost all of them only differ in 1 precursor and so I'm betting ANPP isn't controlled (it isn't active or even that toxic) and a few large companies are supplying tonnes of the stuff and all of the grey-market chemists are just finding new analogues - most LESS potent than fentanyl.

Russia has seen a lot of the more potent analogues. I know 3-methyl fentanyl, thiofentanyl, beta-hydroxy fentanyl, alpha methyl fentanyl and so forth.
I
t may be of interest to know that the original US clandestine fentanyl chemist, George Marquardt solely made alpha methyl fentanyl. The reason being it's x120 morphine (50% more potent than plain vanilla) but importantly, it's duration is similar to heroin. It was sold as an active cut. Many died.
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The documentary I watch about fentanyl said that it’s inventor was trying to make a dirt cheap substitute for heroin. So that poor people could get what they need without going broke. Obviously it failed, miserably
 
Squeaky said:
The documentary I watch about fentanyl said that it’s inventor was trying to make a dirt cheap substitute for heroin. So that poor people could get what they need without going broke. Obviously it failed, miserably
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Well Janssen developed fentanyl as a replacement for phenoperidine (an adjunct in general anesthesia). It IS true that reports of fentanyl being sold in $2 units were cited in the USA, but given it's very short duration, don't people end up having to take many more doses so it doesn't save money.

BUT it IS exactly the kind of thing George Marquard might say - especially since alpha methyl fentanyl has a duration of 4 hours. If that was his REAL reason, how come he sold 100% of his product to an up-and-coming H wholesaler who would cut 1Kg of totally uncut H (from Afghanistan) with 1Kg of caffeine, add 8.3 grams of aMF.... and sell it on as 2 Kg of totally uncut H. He had people who could replicate the packaging and logos (in gold leaf) to make it very realistic.

AFAIK George never gave to a HR agency, detox facility or ANY of the charitable things one can even claim the tax back on.

If he REALLY cared he would have bade the levo-alpha acetyl ester of R-4066 which is x212 M, has a duration of 4 days (so given twice a week it works) and has a very large TI.
 
Squeaky said:
Seems that we all are.
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Oh man you guys, my doctor just gave me my last prescriptions and is retired.
The two doctors there, called us all in and then sorted us into different doctors.
Like some got suboxone treatment doctors, some got psychiatrist, anxiety issues, I am being sent to a chronic pain specialist.
I am scared to death that the new doctor won’t give me my same medication’s.
 
I am thinking I better get an appointment right away.
Because if it doesn’t go well, I will need to find someone else.

This sucks.

I think the new place will be alright. I hope.
Pray for me!
❤️
 
Squeaky said:
Tried ecstasy once. My pupils were so huge I looked like a character from a horror movie
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Pale eyes might get all the songs written about them, but I had to look close up with a magnifying glass :oops: dark brown eyes are a real blessing sometimes, unless it's my husband trying to be romantic and comes off with, "beautiful pools, of mud" :ROFLMAO:
 
Painful One said:
I am thinking I better get an appointment right away.
Because if it doesn’t go well, I will need to find someone else.

This sucks.

I think the new place will be alright. I hope.
Pray for me!
❤️
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It's a good sign you're getting a pain specialist, I imagine that is so you can keep your access to strong painkillers. It was a pain specialist years ago who told my GP to stop being such a jerk and give me something proper for my pain, he still didn't really, but it certainly helped until I changed GP.
Absolutely wishing you all the luck in the world with it. It's quality of life, would the doctors see that as an optional extra if it was for themselves or their kids?
 
I couldn’t have imagined this a year ago but my pain averages less now than when I was using oxy every day. When I first got them, it was great. But 5 years later I couldn’t even remember what it was like to not hurt, or to sleep. I’m not saying everyone is in the same position but maybe this will be a good change for you PainfulOne.
 
Squeaky said:
More like I stepped in dog crap, fell down the stairs, and landed on a plan. But yeah….. it’s making progress.
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I’m proud of you!
Well done!

yeah, maybe a good thing. I thought the doctor I was seeing was a pain specialist but no, just an M.D.
Will be good to see what a real pain specialist has to say.

I just really do not want to be ripped off all my medications at once ya know?
It would torture me to death.
 
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