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The sure-fire way to get over X.

BilZ0r said:
...hmmm... maybe. I still feel it's reasonable to care what strangers think of you... you know, "A stranger's just a friend you haven't met", or an employer, or court judge, or a policeman, or a.....
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I think you're missing the point. :D

No one is suggesting that it is proper to act disrespectfully toward strangers.

The issue is the tendency some have about becoming obsessed over "suspected" judgements made by strangers. As a result, their ability to share and enjoy is impared, because they are caught up in avoiding the judgements of some unknown judge "out there." (If you are self-conscious about laughing, and your self-consciousness centers on what others may think of you, it's hard to simply to relax and have a good time.)

Some people take this to the extreme by actively taking on the role of the "judger" ("God, just going to a rave makes me hate faggots and E..."), and actively project their issues of self-consciousness on to others. They essencially become that which they most fear, a kind of bogeyman for the self-consciously affilicted (which is probably a misguided attempt at coping with it and taking control).


Anyway, circular logic is dangerous, and circular logic with emotional undertones to reinforce them is very dangerous. It is one of the few ways that I know of where an otherwise healthy person can become fixcated, and result in the fixcation taking on a life of its own.
 
Actually, I just read that post by ecstasteve, now I see what y'all are going on about... *cough claws*
 
This is a pretty interesting thread. Only one thing I really want to add though. Whatever happened to that old saying,"If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." Its one thing to disagree with people or dislike what they doing. It is even ok to tell the offender that you don't care for what they are doing. But to do it in such a disrespectful manner is a little bit different. Why does hate have to enter into this?

peace,
beta theory
 
BilZ0r said:
I'd never thought of it that way, initially when I read that I was like "Well what about weed?" and then I'm like "oh yeah, stoned people can be annoying", "Well, what about LSD... definatly annoying"... That's quite odd...
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The "outside looking in" thing is much more pronounced when the person "looking in" is someone who doesn't do drugs. We can let someone acting stupid while on mushrooms slide because we've been there, or someone just giggling in the corner eating a packet of crisps pass because we know thats what being stoned can sometimes be about (well I'm assuming, I've only ever been stoned once).

As soon as a non-user sees such people they don't understand the "high" and only see the stupidity of the persons actions, and I imagine various government propoganda appear in their head too. "Doing LSD makes you act strangely, thinking you can fly and may attempt to jump off buildings" sort of thing, while you're happy to watch the walls melt sitting in your chair.

This (among a multitude of other reasons) is why I do not do powerful drugs while in uni. I'm the only one who is into anything much like this and were I to turn up to someones room gurning away and jibbing shit to people they'd think "God, does E do that to you? You look terrible", while I'd be feeling very much the opposite.

Alcohol I find to not be like that. I really don't derive any pleasure from it anymore, and more drink it just to seem sociable in a bar or club situation. It feels wrong or self concious if I don't have a drink in my hand (years of conditioning I expect). When I'm drunk I'm tired, bored and non-social, and when I'm sober I cringe when I see friends completely wasted making idiots of themselves and doing things they regret. I'll stop this topic there or I'll go into a massive, off topic rant about an ex of mine and her exceedingly poor judgement and lack of ability to learn from her mistakes.

Part of the reason I enjoy going to clubs where everyone is on MDMA is the fact noone cares about your appearance. Everyone is in the same frame of mind, just talking rubbish and dancing to music. The photos the next day make you think "Dear god I looked a state! I don't remember people looking that rough!" (usually look like sweaty pale people with jaw lock). At clubs where people are just drinking it feels like a meat market. Everyone is constantly being judged on their clothes, haircut, looks, dancing ability (not that its possible to dance to RnB unless you're female IMO). At clubs that are full of MDMA users its more a case of "I'll go in clothes I'm comfortable with and if I want to look like an idiot then I'll do so, have a blast and noone will care."

/edit
I didn't realise that post was so long :o
 
BilZ0r said:
I'd never thought of it that way, initially when I read that I was like "Well what about weed?" and then I'm like "oh yeah, stoned people can be annoying", "Well, what about LSD... definatly annoying"... That's quite odd...

Meanwhile all of this shit--I'm sorry, but you guys need to wake up and smell the real world. You're a social animal, you want and need social interaction. You can sit around and tell yourself you don't care about what other people think, but the only people who truely don't care are people with serious mental illnesses. You're designed to care, it is very important to care. You couldn't get a job if you didnt' care, you probably couldn't even hold a 5 minute conversation if you didn't care.

Children learn embarresment sometime between self awearness and 5 years old. It's natural.
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This is exactly why there are things like raves - where you DON'T have to care... Isn't that the whole point?

I'm the most vain person in "real life" but at raves, drum n bass gigs and DJ-oriented night clubs I DON'T GIVE A FUCK. I'm there to enjoy myself and forget about all the shit.
 
This is exactly why there are things like raves - where you DON'T have to care
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Raves are where people don't give a fuck? To me, people spend more time getting done up for raves than for preety much anything else... except the weird outdoor ones where they play too much psi-trance, and there are lots of hari krishnas... (Do they even have those in the US or Australia? Or is that just an NZ thing?)
 
^ I think it depends on the people attending the rave. Here in the UK most people go to "raves" (ie large outdoor events, or festivals) in clothes that are comfy.
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/AlphaNumeric-global.jpg
I'm on the far left wearing clothes I wear iin day to day life. Only difference in what I was wearing that day is I wore shitty old trainers due to mud. Proto standing next to me (guy in purple) has obviously put a lot of effort into it, but from what he (and Nursy) said, its a once a year thing for Global (you can see the Godskitchen sign behind us). A few women go in fluffy shoes (take 2 minutes to make) or someone dresses up in a costume of some kind, but 99% of people just go in "casual comfy clothes".

In the US and Australia raves seem like a much more elaborate affair with many more people getting dressed up in god knows what and wearing twice their own body weight in plastic jewellry. I can understand the origins of these things. Its a case of "We're different somewhat from mainstream and want to express it", but like any "non-conformist culture" it eventually just turned back into a "I have to impress others or go one more than the next person".

I find MDMA and a few other drugs a good way of "Stepping out of myself". 99.5% of the time I'm (vaguely) hard working, somewhat quiet, uni student and it's fun to "go a little crazy" now and again, but even when I'm in a pretty messed up state I still have that voice in my head that says "There's a line, and thats past it" when someone suggests something stupid or you see the occasional person completely covered in "kandy".
 
CousinNick650 said:
but when ur rolling you look so funny and it kind of weirds those "regulars" out or they can use it later to your disadvantage.
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For starts, "look so funny" is a value judgment you and your friends have "decided" to make. Perception is fluid, and there is nothing about the perception "look so funny" that is hard coded in your brains.

CousinNick650 said:
but when ur rolling you look so funny and it kind of weirds those "regulars" out or they can use it later to your disadvantage.
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This sounds like the group you are talking about are far too concerned with image. Let's face it, all of these people either consciously or unconsciously agreed to some standard "look so funny", and have also decided (either consciously or unconsciously) to make a value judgment regarding "look so funny" when someone is exhibiting the state of "look so funny". There's no universal recognition about this. It is not like a case where someone is choking, and everyone (regardless of background) will have a common perception.

I'm sorry to sound harsh here, but you're scene invented "look so funny" recognition, and the also invented the value judgments made on "look so funny". And it has taken on such a artificial sense of importance that people in your scene are now able to blackmailing members ("use it later to your disadvantage") because of the group's invention of "look so funny".

Can you see how absolutely absurd it is, for these people to be so hung up and uptight about their "look so funny".

The fact is that people don't look all that funny while rolling. The just look fucked up, and most often appears as though they are having some form of "peak experience." It is proper for someone to look like that if they are at a party/rave/venue/etc. where MDMA use is accepted. And it IS "look so funny" if done while at an interview.

Dude, the people in this scene you are telling really need to grow up. All of this make pretend that "look so funny" "makes you goofy" is misguided, pretentious elitism. At best, these people need to work on their understanding of social context.



CousinNick650 said:
so if you only go to "raves" once in a while to get fucked up and enjoy all the lights and music and people then do what the fuck you want dont let some peoples opinions who you'll never see again get in the way. but thats not how it is for some of us so thats why we care about our image.
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Nick, you guys have invented your own dilemma. And now you are all victims of your own self-invented fantasy. It all exists solely because you've all "agreed" that it exists.


What can I say. Life is just too damn short...
 
When I raved sober (Feb '03 - May '04) I did not mind everyone around me pinging off their jaw. Yes they did look like horrible gurning messes but so what? If they were having half as much fun as the said they were, then more power to them. It didn't disgust me the first time and it didn't at my last straight rave in July. But then I spent most of the night with other straight ravers. And there were sniffer dogs everywhere so everyone was too scared shit to take much, so that was a special case.

I'm assured that I appear sober when I'm on acid. I don't think I had enough that time but I just felt a tad uncomfortable amongst the gurning masses. Or perhaps it was the 18 hours of hard trance doing the tenderised psyche in my head in. :\
 
Let people do what they want if they are being safe and not hurting anyone.... If you truly get physically ill watching your friend, you shouldn't have gone with him/her. I've raved sober quite a bit, and people often think i am rolling simply because i am having a blast dancing to the music. People should have fun how they want to have fun... its when they endanger others or themselves (to the point of needing medical attention, its ok to prune a few braincells) that we should really worry. (I definitely experienced this last night, there were a lot of drunk people in my dorm, and i was ok with it until a girl showed up who was falling down and not responding to questions... THATS NOT GOOD... i made sure they took here back home and told them to call a proctor if she wasn't opening her eyes or responding to stimuli... stupid freshmen, although i was in states similar to that before)
 
privateinterlude I can relate to what you're saying. Even though you can look really fucked up on most drugs. There is a certain fuckedness about some people on pills that can be hard to watch while sober. I think it's to do with the fact that Pills completely removes peoples' inhibitions but at the same time can give people heaps of energy and stimulation. As opposed to being blind drunk and falling over unconscious they keep goin` all night.
 
shit, watchin people roll makes me wanna roll even more. people who are rollin look soooooo fuckin happy. not to mention they dont give a shit if they look shot out.
 
I like shows/gatherings where everyone is doing everything. It puts so much in perspective. It can be scary and joyful all at once. Sober, rollin, drunkards (are great on e, IMO!) stoners, trippers....whatever....the fact is everyones partying on all kinds of goodies (and not so goodies you can tell) I love the mixture because teh E stigmas are blurred. Nobody gives a fuck. I roll, my husband drinks. He laughs at everyone. he gets freaked out looking at people sometimes, but it gives him a contact high. Props to hippie parties for this.
 
Invalid Usename said:
[BSeriously, you have a finite amount of time in which for your life to unfold. You can either gear your life to realizing your own happiness, or you can gear your life so that somebody like "ecstasteve" doesn't spot you, and make a negative judgment about you (and I don't see "ecstasteve" paying your bills at the end of the month). 8(

And let's fact it, whether "ecstasteve" makes a negative personal judgment about you or not, either way you get to go home. But "ecstasteve" always gets to go home looking butt ugly, and worried about whether someone may have judged him negatively in their mind. :D [/B]
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Im glad my post got you so upset. Its quite funny you even called me ugly. I don't remember what I posted and it got deleted so I can't argue about what I said. I know I was in an ornary mood that day though so it was probably out of line. I think the real point I wanted to get across was that I think there is too many kids getting fucked up at raves. I was almost 19 before I touched a drug (aside from weed), and I goto raves and see 13 year old kids rolled out their minds. They don't know how to act on drugs, their body's and minds are growing at high rate and their feeding themselves pills. It's seriously gross to see. Oh and for anyone I pissed off in my other post. so what.
 
ecstasteve said:
Im glad my post got you so upset. Its quite funny you even called me ugly. I don't remember what I posted and it got deleted so I can't argue about what I said. I know I was in an ornary mood that day though so it was probably out of line. I think the real point I wanted to get across was that I think there is too many kids getting fucked up at raves. I was almost 19 before I touched a drug (aside from weed), and I goto raves and see 13 year old kids rolled out their minds. They don't know how to act on drugs, their body's and minds are growing at high rate and their feeding themselves pills. It's seriously gross to see. Oh and for anyone I pissed off in my other post. so what.
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Very very true. At my last rave I was peaking off my nut when two girls aged 13 and 14 scabbed cigarettes from me. By the looks of things in the morning, they had been peaking off their nut too. I also met a 15 year old on heroin. Spent most of the night and the next day with her. It was a very sad state of affairs that they were all so young and on drugs but I was too fucked up to know any better.
 
AlphaNumeric said:
I use the same reasoning as to why I don't like drinking much anymore. From the outside looking in, most drugs look very "Oh god, what are you doing to yourself?"
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Which is my biggest problem with any drug... too self concious of how i look... and therefore seem to be bad tripping on every substance!!! apart from speed
 
maybe you shouldnt run your mouth b4 you have any information about people. for your information the girl in that pic is fuckin 19. noone in any of those pics is under 17.
 
im gonna back up special K here.

I know the girl in question personally, and she's older then you my pedigreed chum.
 
as i said " no disrespect intended" she honestly doesnt look 19 in that pic and im sure others would also agree. furthermore she is wearing a guys jumper so its easy to mistake her for a guy. lolz i can see both of you have taken this to heart so i apologize for my understandable mistake. once again no disrespect intended :)

Peace.
 
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