The student loan trap (rant thread)

[Mr. Krinkle]

I think it probably is far from a loan shark by the sound of it?

Unless your loan sharks are soft also.

You can pay $10 a month for life and there's nothing they can do about it?

No wonder admission costs are rising.

No you don't owe the school - they already got their money - you owe the bank now

and no you cant pay 10 a month and nothing will happen, i was exaggerating - but as long as you're paying something, you're generally ok - they are very flexible and its not like dealing with a loan shark - just me exaggerating again

it is a bit of a racket the way it's done here - everybody's making money - interest rates can be low but they're still a bit too much if you ask me - but also, it can be a wise investment depending on how things work out - so it works both ways


you're Australian system sounds pretty good to me

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

IN my very humble opinion, instead of all the taxpayers making the students whole why don't they have the schools forgive the loans? Or does that make too much sense?

 

[DieselNDope]

For my wife this is honestly a kick in the teeth, maybe 10x that amount would be good..

Exactly 10k isn't even a semester for these colleges. The loans are good but if I only knew what I knew then I wouldn't have wasted my time. In my field I have not been asked directly if I have any degrees and I have never shown my certificate to anyone.
In a Trade job it is all about experience no one cares what school you went to.

and you can give them $10 a month and they really can't do anything about it - so it's not like dealing with loan sharks - but it's not far from it

Yea, helped me because when I setup a payment plan I wasn't making hardly any money like 13.50/h and with all my bills that I turned in to show them where my money was all going to. They literally told me I could pay like 12$/month until the next check.

How the hell??? You can't even pay the interest like that lol.

 

[neversickanymore]

I'm free and clear at this point thank God.. I believe in education, but didn't bat an eye when my son chose not to go to uni. I advised him not to go into any debt unless he saw a clear advantage to doing it. He has to develop his intellect along with his body.. he is working out like a freak.. but all in good time.. getting saddled with a life long debt for the piece of paper.. idk. better be the right field.

I can't think of anything that would tempt me at this point to pay for higher education and nothing I would borrow to take.

But I already learned how to learn and I paid for some of that.

 

[PtahTek]

They got me on the student loan scam maybe a decade ago and still have me in the neg.
Wish I woulda thought it all through a bit more but was hopeful that it would help improve quality of life for us and jumped on board and got fleeced.
Another stat.

 

[ions]

I had maybe 7K in student loans for undergrad. My parents paid the rest.
I worked summers in college at Perkins as a cook so I had spending money.
Grad school was different. I didn't take any loans out first year and found it wasn't enough to live on.
By live on I mean the stipend I got for teaching chemistry labs and grading papers. Which was 22K for the first year.
THen I started on the loans which added up to about 30K after 3 years. And they never awarded my degree.
That's on them. I couldn't get a job as a college professor as anticipated without a PhD and had loans that were just piling up interest over the years.
It was probably over 10K interest by the time my parents said, well, we better knock that out for him.
SO mine are paid now. But not by my own fruits of labor.
My advice on graduate degrees. Go for one that pays you to go to school. I had a tuition waiver and stipend in grad school. Still not enough. And we were strung thin.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

IN my very humble opinion, instead of all the taxpayers making the students whole why don't they have the schools forgive the loans? Or does that make too much sense?

Of course I respect your opinion but a lot the same people complaining about the government bailing out middle class student loan borrowers absolutely did not bat an eyelash at spending $1.2 trillion dollars bailing out the banks in 2008, who caused their own problems by making bad loans and putting the economy on the brink of collapse. Those same folks didn't mind 45's $1.9 trillion tax break to millionaires and corporations in 2017 either.

But the second someone mentions helping the middle and lower classes, suddenly they cry "Socialism!"

I don't think schools would forgive loans because like someone already mentioned, they already got their money. It's the banks who are the perpetrators of this crime.

It's one of the only debts in the US that cannot be bankrupted. They will garnish your wages and tax returns if you default. If you go into deferment or forbearance, guess what? Interest continues accruing. Some lenders, like mine, have a Pay As You Earn program that allows you to pay what you can afford based on income. But that only means interest accrues faster than you can pay it and the more you make, the more you pay. So it honestly disincentivizes shooting for a higher income.

As for the amount the current administration is giving ($10k or $20k) that is so low it is laughable. I could pay $10k on my loan today and due to interest, it would not cause a dent. Ten or so years ago I worked in public service for a year and upon completion got a $5k stipend to pay towards loans. Not only was it taxed but due to interest, my principal still increased. Believe it or not, the gov't spending a cool trillion to forgive ALL student debt would immediately turn around in inject billions back into the economy because millions of people would finally be able to buy stuff, like cars, homes, groceries, etc.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Of course I respect your opinion but a lot the same people complaining about the government bailing out middle class student loan borrowers absolutely did not bat an eyelash at spending $1.2 trillion dollars bailing out the banks in 2008, who caused their own problems by making bad loans and putting the economy on the brink of collapse. Those same folks didn't mind 45's $1.9 trillion tax break to millionaires and corporations in 2017 either.

But the second someone mentions helping the middle and lower classes, suddenly they cry "Socialism!"

Socialism has nothing to do with my reasons, Jerry. Please read on.

I don't think schools would forgive loans because like someone already mentioned, they already got their money. It's the banks who are the perpetrators of this crime.

I challenge that statement. The banks simply provided financing. Although the terms are not the greatest, each and every student entered into the agreement freely. The biggest perpetrators are the schools.

The schools should be counseling students as to the cost vs likelihood of of the degree preparing the student with the ability to repay the loan. I know that was provided when I attained my post grad degrees. They already received their money so the student fulfilled that part of the contract, however did the student get the employment strongly implied by the the degree from the school?

It's similar to when you buy a car. The manufacturer gets 100% of the price up front (through financing) but they are still responsible for the car running until the warantee is up.

Institutes of higher learning are expected to maintain ethical behavior, I believe that there has been at least some measure of non-ethical behavior when it comes to the the marketing of degrees.

If we want to go further then perhaps the banks should pay their fair share as well. I would be all for that.

It's one of the only debts in the US that cannot be bankrupted. They will garnish your wages and tax returns if you default. If you go into deferment or forbearance, guess what? Interest continues accruing. Some lenders, like mine, have a Pay As You Earn program that allows you to pay what you can afford based on income. But that only means interest accrues faster than you can pay it and the more you make, the more you pay. So it honestly disincentivizes shooting for a higher income.

As for the amount the current administration is giving ($10k or $20k) that is so low it is laughable. I could pay $10k on my loan today and due to interest, it would not cause a dent. Ten or so years ago I worked in public service for a year and upon completion got a $5k stipend to pay towards loans. Not only was it taxed but due to interest, my principal still increased. Believe it or not, the gov't spending a cool trillion to forgive ALL student debt would immediately turn around in inject billions back into the economy because millions of people would finally be able to buy stuff, like cars, homes, groceries, etc.

The last thing we need right now is too much money injected into the economy on the supply side. This will invariably cause additional inflation, which will hurt lower income people first since those with higher income have more discretionary income. Sounds like it should work the other way around, but I'm afraid that's exactly how the law of supply and demand works with regards to money supply.

I truly wish what you stated would be the actual outcome.

This country has truly dug itself into a very interesting hole.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

I challenge that statement. The banks simply provided financing. Although the terms are not the greatest, each and every student entered into the agreement freely. The biggest perpetrators are the schools.

The schools should be counseling students as to the cost vs likelihood of of the degree preparing the student with the ability to repay the loan. I know that was provided when I attained my post grad degrees. They already received their money so the student fulfilled that part of the contract, however did the student get the employment strongly implied by the the degree from the school?

It's similar to when you buy a car. The manufacturer gets 100% of the price up front (through financing) but they are still responsible for the car running until the warantee is up.

Maybe a new car, but what about a used car purchased with dealer financing and no warranty. Kind of adds a different twist to the scenario IMHO.

Institutes of higher learning are expected to maintain ethical behavior, I believe that there has been at least some measure of non-ethical behavior when it comes to the the marketing of degrees.

If we want to go further then perhaps the banks should pay their fair share as well. I would be all for that.

Very good points. Like on my first day of grad school they had the entire cohort in one room, something like 30-40 of us in a department with four main majors. One of the lead professors outright encouraged everyone to take out loans instead of working so we could focus on schoolwork and writing instead of spending all those hours working a job. She said if we had trouble making ends meet, to take out more loans. That is the wrong type of counseling.

I still think the banks are in cahoots with the universities. When you think about it, an 18 year old kid fresh out of high school with no work experience or credit score would never be approved for a mortgage on a house. But a bank will happily allow them to take out nearly as much money in student loans even with no credit or work experience, all on the fantasy that someday in the near future they will miraculously land that dream career in order to pay off that loan. I don't know if anyone can convince me that the banks haven't already calculated the statistical probability of how many borrowers will actually be able to follow through all the way on these loans, yet they knowingly hand out that money anyways because of the shameful interest rates.

And I almost forgot about the FAFSA, a document that is required to be submitted before admission regardless of intent to actually take out loans. But once they have all that info, it is very easy to sell a student on the tempting idea of loans. The entire process is a scam, really.

The last thing we need right now is too much money injected into the economy on the supply side. This will invariably cause additional inflation, which will hurt lower income people first since those with higher income have more discretionary income. Sounds like it should work the other way around, but I'm afraid that's exactly how the law of supply and demand works with regards to money supply.

I truly wish what you stated would be the actual outcome.

This country has truly dug itself into a very interesting hole.

Please don't get me started on inflation, lol. I believe what we currently call inflation is a hoax created by the ultra wealthy to consolidate corporate power and skyrocket their profits all while attempting to sway the vote in an election year because they know Brandon is coming for their tax revenue, and rightfully so.

 

[The Shadow Self]

It has turned into a scam over time, for sure. We all know how supply and demand works and even these institutions know that flooding the market with diplomas lowers wages for everyone and creates crazy competition for available jobs, hence giving corporations/companies a huge advantage knowing that a), they have a larger pool of candidates to choose from and b), that they will ultimately pay them less as a result. Kind of like printing money can only go on for so long until you cannot hide the effects of doing so, that reckoning in higher education is beginning to happen, for sure.

But yeah...I went to a costly private school 35 years ago, and it was about 24k per year way back then. That same school is now charging about 73k per year to attend, so you do the math. So I did have to borrow quite a nut to go there, which was a nightmare (but the program I was in was awesome), but the only good news is that my employer paid for about 70% of my graduate degree and I paid the rest out of my own pocket. I feel bad for people regarding this whole dumpster fire, for sure.

 

[Joey]

I think if I ever get my business operable and making a good income I might go to university. I'd really love to on some level even though at this point I don't really seem to truly need it for my chosen field or anything.

I've always been afraid of going to a traditional school because of the student loans issue. I just won't do it

 

[Jerry Atrick]

I think if I ever get my business operable and making a good income I might go to university. I'd really love to on some level even though at this point I don't really seem to truly need it for my chosen field or anything.

I've always been afraid of going to a traditional school because of the student loans issue. I just won't do it

It took me awhile but I realized that university is about education but not necessarily book knowledge. By that I mean that the things you learn outside of the traditional classroom are just as important as the things you learn inside the classroom. College is where I made lifelong friends, I learned how to construct a beer bong, studied abroad and learned about new cultures and ways of living, learned how to network by putting myself in front of job recruiters and other influential people, etc.

I think it is doable for people to use income from businesses and jobs to fund their higher education without getting stuck with debilitating loans. Don't forget about grants and scholarships as well. There are tons out there if you search.

 

[Shady's Fox]

also this thread is UK/USA/probably bit of Germany/Denmark/Finalnd but mostly first two.

nowhere else in world, you can get a student loan, you can have a financial scolarship and that's worldwide but this thread isn't, should be specified.

I know by now someone will say different and I invite you to google this or actually travel to other 50 countries and see for yourself, and more important how many around area even accept this.

teachers do "student loans" by talkin their parents into a souless void and parents say yayaya, "You're going to camp/excursion, you're going to devil to take you, etc" well yeah until you wake up with it in your hand as is said

 

[Jerry Atrick]

also this thread is UK/USA/probably bit of Germany/Denmark/Finalnd but mostly first two.

nowhere else in world, you can get a student loan, you can have a financial scolarship and that's worldwide but this thread isn't, should be specified.

I know by now someone will say different and I invite you to google this or actually travel to other 50 countries and see for yourself, and more important how many around area even accept this.

teachers do "student loans" by talkin their parents into a souless void and parents say yayaya, "You're going to camp/excursion, you're going to devil to take you, etc" well yeah until you wake up with it in your hand as is said

Good point. I am in the USA. I can't speak for most other countries but I once dated a girl from Finland and she said colleges did not charge tuition over there.

 

[Electrum1]

A judge has decided against the unconstitutional student debt relief

 

[Jerry Atrick]

A judge has decided against the unconstitutional student debt relief

Funny that one of the plaintiffs of the lawsuit had her PPP loans forgiven. Same as a slew of reps in Congress like MTG, who had over $183K forgiven. "Debt relief for me but not for thee."

The judge who did this is not surprisingly part of the corrupt Federalist Society. He's the same judge who struck down a law in TX preventing kids under the age of 21 from purchasing guns.

Plaintiff in Lawsuit Opposing Biden Student Debt Forgiveness Had PPP Loan Forgiven

The lawsuit, aimed at ending Biden’s debt forgiveness program, is being bankrolled by a well-connected right-wing group.

theintercept.com

 

[crazyhairman]

Dropped out when I figured out it was a scam. No student loan , no degree. I was a looser ( or so I thought). Just worked my way up. Wouldn't change a thing.

My sister felt pressured into college, racked up horrendous debt. Her credit is wrecked. She graduated ten years ago. Still owes ... It's so odd all those years I felt for sure I had made the wrong choice.

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

I never bought in to the grad school lie. But I do remember tons of underemployed people with un-used Masters’ degrees and during the interview process, HR people saying that their education does not match their level of work experience. Also being considered “overqualified.”
When the commodity (degree) is overpriced, just don’t buy it! When there’s no certainty in recouping the cost of the degree in a reasonable amount of time, then it’s not a good bet.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

I never bought in to the grad school lie. But I do remember tons of underemployed people with un-used Masters’ degrees and during the interview process, HR people saying that their education does not match their level of work experience. Also being considered “overqualified.”
When the commodity (degree) is overpriced, just don’t buy it! When there’s no certainty in recouping the cost of the degree in a reasonable amount of time, then it’s not a good bet.

Agreed 100%, of course hindsight's always 20/20. Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have ever even considered grad school. In fact, when all my Masters friends were applying to PhD programs, I was like no, I've had enough of this shit.

As for the overqualified thing, I can also testify that I've gotten more jobs by leaving my Masters off my resume than I ever did with it on my resume. Go figure.

But in my defense, I bought the lie like too many others. Didn't help that I was coming off of psychosis and mania and still on meds when I was delusional thinking grad school was a good idea. It didn't help that we were encouraged and even persuaded to take out loans.

It's the system though. When I was in my late 30s early 40s, the most money I ever made was $52k per year. I had a steady job, steady rental history, and excellent credit. Still couldn't qualify for a mortgage. Yet some punk kid straight out of high school with no work experience, no rental history, and no credit can get a loan for tens of thousands of dollars, no questions asked. What a fucking racket.

 

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