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AADD Moderators: andyturbo
The Stolen Generation
- Thread starter syntech
- Start date
KiLLaPyThOn
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2002
- Messages
- 14
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I want to know why when ever any of us affluent honkies suffer trauma we get immidiate trauma councelling and compensation but we refuse to fight for the indigenous communities right to have such?
I mean look at the way Howard panders to recent loss due to terrorism but refuses to acknowledge or say sorry to the original caretakers of Australia.
It might be australian history but whats wrong with australian humanity
I mean look at the way Howard panders to recent loss due to terrorism but refuses to acknowledge or say sorry to the original caretakers of Australia.
It might be australian history but whats wrong with australian humanity
katmeow
Bluelight Crew
Some things to think about.
*In 2001: Average life expectancy of Indigenous males - 56, Indigenous females - 63, Australian males - 77, Australian females - 82.
*Infant mortality rate for Indigenous Australians in 2001 was twice that for all Australians.
* 36% of Indigenous students in 2001 continued to yr 12 compared with 73% of all Australian students.
*In 2001, the unemployment rate for Indigenous adults was 23%, compared with 7.4% for non-Indigenous adults.
*32% of Indigenous people own or are buying their own homes, compared with 71% of non-Indigenous Australians.
Source: Australian Human Rights & Equal opportunity commission www.hreoc.gov.au
In all honesty, I don't know how much the word sorry would achieve. What's needed is a complete societal overhaul and attitude change. Acknowledgement is not a solution in itself.
*In 2001: Average life expectancy of Indigenous males - 56, Indigenous females - 63, Australian males - 77, Australian females - 82.
*Infant mortality rate for Indigenous Australians in 2001 was twice that for all Australians.
* 36% of Indigenous students in 2001 continued to yr 12 compared with 73% of all Australian students.
*In 2001, the unemployment rate for Indigenous adults was 23%, compared with 7.4% for non-Indigenous adults.
*32% of Indigenous people own or are buying their own homes, compared with 71% of non-Indigenous Australians.
Source: Australian Human Rights & Equal opportunity commission www.hreoc.gov.au
In all honesty, I don't know how much the word sorry would achieve. What's needed is a complete societal overhaul and attitude change. Acknowledgement is not a solution in itself.
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PsychoKitten
Bluelight Crew
quit flaming people for having an opinion. any more crap like that and the posts will be deleted.
I wonder when people will realise that faming others for not agreeing with their opinion only shows how ignorant they truly are. Argue intelligently and don't result to slurs upon each other.
This is a thread full of wide generalisations on both sides and as such should be taken with a grain of salt. Don't let the thread dissolve into a flamewar. I've edited out all personal attacks, it's a pity that afterwards many posts are left pretty empty.
I wonder when people will realise that faming others for not agreeing with their opinion only shows how ignorant they truly are. Argue intelligently and don't result to slurs upon each other.
This is a thread full of wide generalisations on both sides and as such should be taken with a grain of salt. Don't let the thread dissolve into a flamewar. I've edited out all personal attacks, it's a pity that afterwards many posts are left pretty empty.
Wacky said:villa saying 'sorry' would NOT open up a legal/ethical minefield. There does NOT have to be an admitance of guilt("or sorry in this case") for defendence to be possibly sued successfully.
Also,there would NOT be much luck in the courts when you have 'white's' administrating the law.
This lie was talked up by such as people as 'John Laws'.
Finally,the proof that saying 'sorry' would NOT cause this problem, is that the fact that a few years ago ALL state parliments passed a motion of an 'official' 'sorry' on behalf of the states.Just NO SORRY at the federal level. This has NOT resulted in HUGE legal cases.
are you a lawyer specialising in consitutional or national law?
what are you basing this on?
as to you're proof about the state governments, just because they haven't been sued doesn't mean they're not liable. state and federal laws are massively different.
the point i was trying to make was this:
have you ever thought about why John Howard doesn't apologise on behalf of the nation? for him to cop as much flack as he does about it, there must be a fucking good reason. I don't know the reason, i'm just speculating, but then again neither do you or anyone else on this board unless they're a highly specialised lawyer, political analyst, very high ranking government official or john howard himself. i have about as much lack of respect for john laws as the next man, but stop being nieve...
Raving Loony
Bluelighter
Four times when in a unemployed or a student I went up and asked if I could help out for free to welfare/community service agencies (in a region where there is a large number of Aborignals) only for them to say "no we can't use your help".
eze451
Bluelighter
whiteboy, there are no aboriginals where i live........... should i fly up to the northern territory, seek out the first indigenous person i see and shriek "Teach me about caring for my fellow man, and community??"
my responsibility as a citizen of this country is to follow the law, pay my taxes and respect the rights of fellow citizens...... i do all of that, its not my fault if other ppl either in the past or still now are mistreating aborigines.......
if one person could put a stop to it, or make the past better it would have been done already, anyway, the point is how can i say sorry for something i never took part in, if a white person murders an aboriginal, should all white ppl apologise to that persons family??
and aboriginals are not the true owners of our land, if u are going to be silly like that, then single cell animals are the owners of the whole earth given that they were the first life forms to appear on earth
my responsibility as a citizen of this country is to follow the law, pay my taxes and respect the rights of fellow citizens...... i do all of that, its not my fault if other ppl either in the past or still now are mistreating aborigines.......
if one person could put a stop to it, or make the past better it would have been done already, anyway, the point is how can i say sorry for something i never took part in, if a white person murders an aboriginal, should all white ppl apologise to that persons family??
and aboriginals are not the true owners of our land, if u are going to be silly like that, then single cell animals are the owners of the whole earth given that they were the first life forms to appear on earth
XtC_KittiE
Bluelighter
Wah wah wah .... we're in the millenium and the aboriginal community are still fucking whinging about the stolen generation (please note im not a racist).
They get their higher education practically for free, score a massive discount for housing, get more money off the government for pension/watever, if they go for a job interview and dont get the job its discrimination ... i mean for fucks sake ... everyone goes on about how everyone should be treated as equals (especially aborginals) but then theyre out there gettin more benefits then we are! fucks sake.
And if i had a drunken aborginal comes up to me at a train station in the city again asking for spare change im gonna fucking smash em cos ive had fucking enough! (occasionally when i feel bad for em and give em a few bucks .... then they ask for more! .... on the weekend an aboriginal asked for $15!! get a fucking job then u wont have to do it for fucks sake stupid fuck).
Look im defintly not a racist but the whole aboriginal issue in australia outrages me, sure there are those aboriginals that have done well and live a happy normal australian - orientated life and thats great but why cant these other bloody metho drinking aboriginals get off their ass and get some motivation their life .... if those other aboriginals can do it why the fuck cant they!
ummm *thinks* yep i think thats all for now heheh
They get their higher education practically for free, score a massive discount for housing, get more money off the government for pension/watever, if they go for a job interview and dont get the job its discrimination ... i mean for fucks sake ... everyone goes on about how everyone should be treated as equals (especially aborginals) but then theyre out there gettin more benefits then we are! fucks sake.
And if i had a drunken aborginal comes up to me at a train station in the city again asking for spare change im gonna fucking smash em cos ive had fucking enough! (occasionally when i feel bad for em and give em a few bucks .... then they ask for more! .... on the weekend an aboriginal asked for $15!! get a fucking job then u wont have to do it for fucks sake stupid fuck).
Look im defintly not a racist but the whole aboriginal issue in australia outrages me, sure there are those aboriginals that have done well and live a happy normal australian - orientated life and thats great but why cant these other bloody metho drinking aboriginals get off their ass and get some motivation their life .... if those other aboriginals can do it why the fuck cant they!
ummm *thinks* yep i think thats all for now heheh
doofqueen
Bluelighter
^^ i think most people with that sort of attitude need some education on the subject
get over it? RIIIIITTTTTTEEEEEE
how would you like to get over the fact that your family was torn apart? that you don't know where you come from? who you are? where your family is? had your culture stripped from you and were made to feel worthless?
I think you would still be whinging about it too!
get over it? RIIIIITTTTTTEEEEEE
how would you like to get over the fact that your family was torn apart? that you don't know where you come from? who you are? where your family is? had your culture stripped from you and were made to feel worthless?
I think you would still be whinging about it too!
onetwothreefour
Bluelight Crew
xtc: jesus christ, what an attitude. i don't know where i stand on this, but i would like to point out that most people who *aren't* racists shouldn't need to state "im not a racist" [sic]. instead, it should actually be illustrated by what they say.
what you're saying is actually in stark contrast to your "not a racist" comment. don't you understand that part of the reason that these aboriginals you're looking down upon (because, of course, you're so superior) are in such conditions is to do, completely, with how they've been treated through their lives, how they've been brought up, and how their ancestors have been brought up.
how aboriginals have been treated in the past, and often still are, is a fucking disgrace. imagine if your entire family had been brought up being discriminated against, told that you're worthless, that you couldn't get a job if you tried...do you really think that this isn't going to affect people further down the line (grandsons, stuff like that). this became endemic in the aboriginal culture a long time ago, and to assume that someone's upbringing will have no effect on how they live their lives is just bullshit.
now...the actual point...i don't know about saying sorry. perhaps it's fair to apologise on *behalf* of our ancestors, but as some others say, i take offence in having to do it. i am *myself* and though i clearly agree that the way aboriginals have been treated is horrible, i wasn't the one treating them that way, and i never will be. by all means, acknowledge that this has happened, and attempt to reconcile, but i am never going to take responsibility for anyone else's actions...just 'cause someone was related to me doesn't mean i think the same way as them...
what you're saying is actually in stark contrast to your "not a racist" comment. don't you understand that part of the reason that these aboriginals you're looking down upon (because, of course, you're so superior) are in such conditions is to do, completely, with how they've been treated through their lives, how they've been brought up, and how their ancestors have been brought up.
how aboriginals have been treated in the past, and often still are, is a fucking disgrace. imagine if your entire family had been brought up being discriminated against, told that you're worthless, that you couldn't get a job if you tried...do you really think that this isn't going to affect people further down the line (grandsons, stuff like that). this became endemic in the aboriginal culture a long time ago, and to assume that someone's upbringing will have no effect on how they live their lives is just bullshit.
now...the actual point...i don't know about saying sorry. perhaps it's fair to apologise on *behalf* of our ancestors, but as some others say, i take offence in having to do it. i am *myself* and though i clearly agree that the way aboriginals have been treated is horrible, i wasn't the one treating them that way, and i never will be. by all means, acknowledge that this has happened, and attempt to reconcile, but i am never going to take responsibility for anyone else's actions...just 'cause someone was related to me doesn't mean i think the same way as them...
XtC_KittiE
Bluelighter
easy tiger its just my opinion.
onetwothreefour
Bluelight Crew
^^^ well duh, and what i said was just my opinion. is there no room for debate here? if i see something i disagree with should i just keep quiet?
PsychoKitten
Bluelight Crew
Personally, I feel no need to say sorry for something my ancestors did, just like I feel no need to apologise for any deaths my ancestors caused throughout history.
The atrocities practiced on the aborigines are no different from those practiced by conquering nations throughout history, race after race was swallowed in horrific battles and actions that were then the norm make the way the aborigines were treated look like child’s play.
The whole idea of “true land owners” is ludicrous – if the native population of Australia had been white there would be no such outcry, after all if they had been white perhaps the history would read more like that of conquered European nations... I'd like to see the Welsh or Scottish rise up again and turf out all those that aren't true bread Celtic whilst rejecting the crown and the people who have settled there.
I think it’s incredibly sad, but certainly not unusual or anything new, I've worked with hard-working, successful aborigines that are disgusted in the way their culture is portrayed by the vast majority, I've also worked with those who have decided that the government gives them so much that they shouldn't bother working... Both sides of the same coin, it's not all black and white, cut and dry... do you honestly think that people would have such a bad view of aborigines without experience?
I suggest some of you who are so terribly passionate about saying sorry and the fact that we should turn back the clock go and work with an Aboriginal community outreach service, I think it may open your eyes a little. By the same token, those who have only seen the bad should get off their asses and go see the good.
I think the truly sad thing is whilst there is such a divide in the levels of support services between Australians / Aboriginals (note: I use Aboriginal as separate from Australian because they are according to the govt – you either get help as an Australian or you get help as an Aboriginal) the attitude within the country will never change.
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
The atrocities practiced on the aborigines are no different from those practiced by conquering nations throughout history, race after race was swallowed in horrific battles and actions that were then the norm make the way the aborigines were treated look like child’s play.
The whole idea of “true land owners” is ludicrous – if the native population of Australia had been white there would be no such outcry, after all if they had been white perhaps the history would read more like that of conquered European nations... I'd like to see the Welsh or Scottish rise up again and turf out all those that aren't true bread Celtic whilst rejecting the crown and the people who have settled there.
I think it’s incredibly sad, but certainly not unusual or anything new, I've worked with hard-working, successful aborigines that are disgusted in the way their culture is portrayed by the vast majority, I've also worked with those who have decided that the government gives them so much that they shouldn't bother working... Both sides of the same coin, it's not all black and white, cut and dry... do you honestly think that people would have such a bad view of aborigines without experience?
I suggest some of you who are so terribly passionate about saying sorry and the fact that we should turn back the clock go and work with an Aboriginal community outreach service, I think it may open your eyes a little. By the same token, those who have only seen the bad should get off their asses and go see the good.
I think the truly sad thing is whilst there is such a divide in the levels of support services between Australians / Aboriginals (note: I use Aboriginal as separate from Australian because they are according to the govt – you either get help as an Australian or you get help as an Aboriginal) the attitude within the country will never change.
oh i couldnt agree with u more psychokitten!
and thanks for telling everyone to stop the flaming.
while i'm willing to see what people who are opposing my opinion think and take it into account, do they do the same for me?
a lot of ppl in this thread have made assumptions about my own ethnicity....or not even thought about it. i wasnt born here. i came from a country far worse than this one. my dad escaped over the border when the country was in the grip of one of the worst dictators in modern history.
so dont tell me that i dont anything about what its like in terrible conditions. in romania, being hungarian meant u were the minority, severely discriminated against. u couldnt sing the hungarian national anthem without being put in jail.
my point is, australia is a country made of so many ppl with stories a lot like mine. we are not to blame for what happened. i dont think there should be such an emphasis on apoligising. anyone who feels they want to, can, but i shouldnt be looked down upon as rascist and narrow minded because i choose not to.
i cant stress enough, to take people as individuals, not a race. no matter how many times i've said that, no one's seemed to notice.
take ur blinkers off
and thanks for telling everyone to stop the flaming.
while i'm willing to see what people who are opposing my opinion think and take it into account, do they do the same for me?
a lot of ppl in this thread have made assumptions about my own ethnicity....or not even thought about it. i wasnt born here. i came from a country far worse than this one. my dad escaped over the border when the country was in the grip of one of the worst dictators in modern history.
so dont tell me that i dont anything about what its like in terrible conditions. in romania, being hungarian meant u were the minority, severely discriminated against. u couldnt sing the hungarian national anthem without being put in jail.
my point is, australia is a country made of so many ppl with stories a lot like mine. we are not to blame for what happened. i dont think there should be such an emphasis on apoligising. anyone who feels they want to, can, but i shouldnt be looked down upon as rascist and narrow minded because i choose not to.
i cant stress enough, to take people as individuals, not a race. no matter how many times i've said that, no one's seemed to notice.
take ur blinkers off
PeterPoppa
Bluelighter
I really must laugh at the gathering forces of the P.C. gestapo... Enough is enough, leave the past in the past and lets get on with the future.
Do not feel guilty for the sins of the father!
Do not feel guilty for the sins of the father!
Fuck them.
Those who dont waste their lives being a drain on society I have a lot of time for, but hey I could sit on my ass all day and demand that charities look after me and say its because someone else fucked with us. Get a thick skin, life sucks I aint going to apologise for making Australia a land that is so great.
If it wasnt the whites it would have been someone else. Do u think other races would have held them on a pedistal for the great workers and efficient people that they are.
They should be thanking us for giving them alcohol heroin and the like as it seems to be their fav pastime.
Backo
Those who dont waste their lives being a drain on society I have a lot of time for, but hey I could sit on my ass all day and demand that charities look after me and say its because someone else fucked with us. Get a thick skin, life sucks I aint going to apologise for making Australia a land that is so great.
If it wasnt the whites it would have been someone else. Do u think other races would have held them on a pedistal for the great workers and efficient people that they are.
They should be thanking us for giving them alcohol heroin and the like as it seems to be their fav pastime.
Backo
XtC_KittiE
Bluelighter
^^
fucking word! listen to this chap 'backo' ... he be a very smart fellow indeed
fucking word! listen to this chap 'backo' ... he be a very smart fellow indeed
Nah ill agree with most things XTC kitty says...
plus like ok so when this all happened... their families were tawn appart.. yes thats sad, but its not like the younger generations are displaced.
Why does being educated on the subject always end up with you going... geez... they really are a fucking fantastic race of people. My last statement was a mass generalisation on the dregs of the populas.
I am of the opinion that you look to the individual before making sweeping statements... but this kinda contradicts my last post. If they are all fucked by us, why have there been so many famous aboriginals over time?
Fuck it, lets just put in a labor or greens govt and treat these people like the gods they are.
plus like ok so when this all happened... their families were tawn appart.. yes thats sad, but its not like the younger generations are displaced.
Why does being educated on the subject always end up with you going... geez... they really are a fucking fantastic race of people. My last statement was a mass generalisation on the dregs of the populas.
I am of the opinion that you look to the individual before making sweeping statements... but this kinda contradicts my last post. If they are all fucked by us, why have there been so many famous aboriginals over time?
Fuck it, lets just put in a labor or greens govt and treat these people like the gods they are.