The SEX ALLEGATIONS Megathread

[alasdairm]

alasdair

 

[JGrimez]

^No comment on Weinstein getting convicted? That's big news and he was close friends with people known for cover-ups. I wonder what type of sentence he will receive.

Instead you are like :runscript "Orange Man Bad"

I think you missed this part of my previous post:

Trump himself has faced allegations of sexual misconduct. At least 20 women have accused him of sexual misconduct or inappropriate behavior dating as far back as the 1970s. He has never been charged with a crime involving any of those allegations.

Thank you for the comparison of a baseless accusation vs legitimate sexual assault. I hope you can understand the difference between a women "letting" you touch her (consent) versus her not wanting it (sexual assault). Or are you trying to say that Trump's words are even comparable with Weinstein's actions? Or were you just trying to deflect from Michelle Obama being close friends with Weinstein? Do you think she knew about what was going on in Hollywood? I do.

 

[JGrimez]

Yo there could never be a conspiracy at the highest levels! Pizzagate is fake news

Westminster child sex abuse: Senior police and politicians knew about widespread paedophilia but ‘turned a blind eye to it’, inquiry finds

Senior police and politicians knew about widespread paedophilia in Westminster but 'turned a blind eye to it'

Former prime minister Margaret Thatcher was aware of rumours about Tory MP ‘but did nothing’, probe claims

www.independent.co.uk

Senior political and police figures knew about child sexual abuse linked to Westminster but “turned a blind eye to it” amid a culture of cover-up, an inquiry has found.

Political institutions significantly failed in their responses to allegations of child sex abuse for decades by “actively shielding and protecting perpetrators” and covering up allegations, the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse has concluded.

According to the inquiry, several highly placed people in the 1970s and 1980s, including Sir Peter Morrison MP and Sir Cyril Smith MP, were known or rumoured to be active in their sexual interest in children and were protected from prosecution in a number of ways, including by police.

Former Metropolitan Police officer Robert Glen told the inquiry his team had enough evidence to prosecute Sir Cyril Smith, a former Liberal MP, in the 1970s for sexual offences against young boys – but he claims the investigation was thwarted by senior officers who said it was “too political”.

The report also claims Liberal Party members “were likely to be aware of allegations against Smith” but “did nothing to inhibit his political progress”.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Sex, I have definitely had it... We can probably close this now?

 

[DopeM]

Lol @ modposts in this thread

 

[Xorkoth]

I don't think posting a quote from Trump about how he just starts kissing women without asking and how you can just grab them by the pussy and move on them like a bitch is mutually exclusive with condemning Weinstein, or that it's even making a comparison about levels of immorality. Only that it demonstrates problematic attitudes and behavior.

 

[alasdairm]

^ indeed. it's hardly doublethink.

i posted the quote to place trump's attempts to distance himself from weinstein's troublesome behavior in context. it's a little hollow from somebody who thinks it's acceptable to move on women "like a bitch" etc.

alasdair

 

[JGrimez]

If you don't understand how powerful alpha men can correctly interpret the unspoken signs exhibited by interested women, make the first move with women and why some women love that and consider it extremely attractive, then I don't know how to further explain it.

The women who Trump associated with wanted it seemingly and that's evident by no serious allegations or charges. Weinstein's accusers obviously didn't want it as they're testifying in court that he raped them....

 

[cduggles]

I’d hardly call the cases against Trump minor, but then again I’m into the whole ‘consent’ thing.

 

[drug_mentor]

If you don't understand how powerful alpha men can correctly interpret the unspoken signs exhibited by interested women, make the first move with women and why some women love that and consider it extremely attractive, then I don't know how to further explain it.

The women who Trump associated with wanted it seemingly and that's evident by no serious allegations or charges. Weinstein's accusers obviously didn't want it as they're testifying in court that he raped them....

Is anyone denying that men can correctly interpret the body language of interested women and make the first move? (That is a rhetorical question: they aren't.) As alasdair's image/quote illustrates, Trump himself concedes that, at least in one case, he incorrectly misinterpreted the body language of a disinterested woman. He says he doesn't "even wait" (wait for what? Consent, perhaps?) and he can "do anything [to them]". Yet, by his own admission, there is at least one woman he could not do anything he wanted to (at least not with her consent). It seems highly problematic that, on the one hand, he asserts an implicit consent to behave physically as he wants with any woman, but, on the other hand, admits that not every woman is receptive to this behaviour. As you suggest, Donald Trump is a powerful man, and there is a real question as to whether every woman who he elected to "grab by the pussy" felt empowered to indicate their interest (or lack thereof) before he acted in a potentially inappropriate and assaultive manner. Obviously, the numerous allegations against Trump suggest that they have not all felt this way.

The metric by which you are dismissing the seriousness of the numerous allegations against Trump appears to be that they have not been aired in a court of law. (I'm not quite sure how else you could confidently claim that there are no serious allegations against him.) It seems to me that this is an absurd view for you to hold. Many - indeed the majority - of Weinstein's accusers have not had an opportunity to testify in open court. I hope we can agree that there are many serious allegations against Harvey Weinstein which have not been aired in court. Assuming I am not incorrect about our mutual agreement concerning the foregoing issue, I fail to see how you could consistently dismiss the allegations against Trump. There are obvious socio-political and legal difficulties when it comes to charging a sitting president with this type of crime, and it's not diffcult to see that - irrespective of his guilt or innocence - those who are in a position to charge Trump may feel serious pressure not to do so - pressure which has nothing to do with the credibility of the claims against him. It seems to me that the allegations against Weinstein were serious long before a number of his accusers had the opportunity to testify in court (one might wonder how a district attorney could decide whether or not to instigate proceedings against an alleged sex offender if claims against them could not be credible before the trial commenced; of course, I am not suggesting that the credibility of said claims is a sufficient condition for the commencement of said proceedings), and I see no a priori reason for thinking the allegations against Trump should be viewed any differently.

 

[Xorkoth]

Grimez, it honestly is hard for me to believe you're defending the recording of Trump talking about women. If you support him because you believe his policies are good despite his questionable character traits, okay, I get that (though I disagree). But it's such a reach to try to defend this:

Donald J. Trump: You know and ...
Unknown: She used to be great. She’s still very beautiful.
Trump: I moved on her, actually. You know, she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it.
Unknown: Whoa.
Trump: I did try and fuck her. She was married.
Unknown: That’s huge news.
Trump: No, no, Nancy. No, this was [unintelligible] — and I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping.
She wanted to get some furniture. I said, “I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.” I took her out furniture —

I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.
Billy Bush: Sheesh, your girl’s hot as shit. In the purple.
Trump: Whoa! Whoa!
Bush: Yes! The Donald has scored. Whoa, my man!

[Crosstalk]
Trump: Look at you, you are a pussy.
[Crosstalk]
Trump: All right, you and I will walk out.

[Silence]
Trump: Maybe it’s a different one.
Bush: It better not be the publicist. No, it’s, it’s her, it’s —
Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

This is the language of a predator. "I just start kissing them, I don't even wait". Just because a woman doesn't slap you in the face and call the cops doesn't mean it's not very inappropriate and predatory to "move on them like a bitch" and grab them by the pussy, because "when you're a star you can do anything".

Defend his presidency all you want, but now you're trying to rationalize his behavior as acceptable. All while claiming you're not a Trump supporter. I can respect the stance that you don't care about his personality and behavioral flaws because you think he's doing well for the country. Plenty of people in power have been shitty people. It's just weird to try to defend this and claim all the women wanted him to kiss them without permission and grab them by the pussy.

I won't even mention the payoffs, hush agreements, and allegations by a number of women that you've claimed are nothing because he hasn't been charged with anything. Well I guess I did mention it after all.

Defend his presidency, don't blindly defend every single aspect of his behavior. You're being an apologist for sexual assault and inappropriate use of power for sexual favors.

 

[JGrimez]

OK so everyone who is so sure of Trump being a predator, tell me what you think is the most egregious case and what evidence was presented?

This is how guys talk together privately who are successful with women. It's up to the guy (generally) to physically escalate. A guy who is socially savvy knows what to look for to identify women that will be open to his advances. Some women make it very obvious. When you're a rich, powerful, relatively attractive celebrity then the number of women who make it very obvious increases exponentially.
This is not rape we're talking about. This is the natural sexual dynamic between men and women that BOTH of them greatly enjoy - in the right context. I've seen this happen with my own eyes and if both parties are consenting and have an unspoken understanding then who am I judge their lifestyle choices? You may be upset that this happens in general but we gotta face the facts. These are politically incorrect truths that some people ignore and often confound to use them as political attacks against their enemies. To further clarify, when a man misreads the situation and physically escalates when it's obviously unwanted then that would be when it crosses the line to harassment or assault. It can be a fine line and very subjective which is why men are discouraged to make these moves - as the majority of men are absolutely clueless. But let's not throw away the baby with the bathwater.

In the tape Trump said he moved on a woman heavily by taking her out furniture shopping. Do you think she was forced to go shopping with him at gunpoint? Some women love the attention and they love men chasing them, especially powerful men. Can you imagine how nice it would've felt for this woman to reject Donald Trump? This woman was married but still going on shopping trips with Trump? She can't be that naive. So he made a move and she wasn't open to it so he left it. This can all happen in a relatively appropriate and respectful way. That woman didn't accuse him of assault, she didn't come out to the media and sell her story etc..

I didn't find accusations against Trump particularly credible and I'm sure he's had plenty of enemies throughout his entire career so we do need to show a little extra skepticism when someone is accusing a wealthy person because some people do attempt extortion or political blackmail. Even during the election when Trump became a threat and they were digging through literally everything to try and tarnish his reputation, the worst evidence they could find was literally that conversation that got picked up on the hot mic, and that could have even been Trump boasting and embellishing a situation or lying as his critics claim is commonplace. It's not exactly evidence. Look at people that have actually been charged or at the very least had to step down from their positions due to credible allegations of sexual assault. Bill O'Reilly, Roger Ailes, Matt Lauer, Al Franken lost his Senate seat, there's been quite a few and they're either fired, charged or they offer a settlement to make it go away. As far as I know Trump hasn't done any of these things. So I won't let my disdain for someone and my biases get in the way of evidence.

 

[Xorkoth]

He also said he just starts kissing them and doesn't wait, and that he can grab them by the pussy. yeah the furniture shopping thing is obviously not the same.

I dunno, I don't talk about women like that with my friends.

Anyway Trump has a history of sexual assault'misconduct accusations that started before he even suggested getting into politics. Check the wiki page about it:

Jill Harth (1992)
Jill Harth alleged that Trump assaulted her several times. Harth has stated that in December 1992, while dining with Trump and her then-boyfriend George Houraney, Trump attempted to put his hands between her legs.[1] Harth and Houraney visited Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida in January 1993 for a contract-signing celebration. Trump, according to Harth, offered her a tour before pulling her into the empty bedroom of his daughter Ivanka. "I was admiring the decoration, and next thing I know he's pushing me against a wall and has his hands all over me. He was trying to kiss me. I was freaking out." Harth says she desperately protested against Trump's advances and eventually managed to run out of the room. She and her boyfriend left rather than stay the night, as they had intended.[1] After she became engaged, Harth alleges, Trump began to stalk her.[3]

Harth filed a lawsuit in 1997 in which she accused Trump of non-consensual groping of her body, among them her "intimate private parts",[29][30] and "relentless" sexual harassment.[31] The suit was withdrawn after Houraney settled with Trump for an undisclosed amount in a lawsuit that claimed Trump had backed out of a business deal.[1][32] She still claims to have been sexually assaulted[1] and although he was never violent with her, she says his actions were "unwanted and aggressive, very sexually aggressive".[3]

He literally grabbed her by the pussy and she didn't want it. And he "started kissing her without waiting" too. The suit she filed was withdrawn after he settled, which is generally how these things go down with rich people who can out-lawyer their accuser but don't want to deal with a trial. The victims take what they're offered because they're afraid it's the best they'll get.

That's not the only one in there from before modern times.

Summer Zervos (2007)
Summer Zervos was a contestant on the fifth season of The Apprentice, which filmed in 2005 and aired in 2006.[40][c] Subsequently, she contacted Trump in 2007, about a job after the show's completion, and he invited her to meet him at The Beverly Hills Hotel. Zervos has said that Trump was sexually suggestive during their meeting, kissing her open-mouthed, groping her breasts,[40] and thrusting his genitals on her.[42] She also has said that his behavior was aggressive and not consensual.[41] Zervos is being represented by attorney Gloria Allred.[43]

John Barry, her cousin and a Trump supporter, has said Zervos talked to her family and friends about Trump, promoting his candidacy and stating how Trump had helped her out in her life. Barry said that during the presidential primary campaign, Zervos invited Trump to her restaurant, and he declined.[43][44] In October 2016, the Trump presidential campaign released an email by Zervos, sent to Trump's secretary in April 2016, in which she stated: "I would greatly appreciate reconnecting at this time. He will know my intentions are genuine." Zervos said she had intended to confront Trump and give him the "opportunity to clear the air". She said that on April 21, she sent another email to Trump's assistant which she asked to be forwarded to Trump, in which she stated: "I have been incredibly hurt by our previous interaction."[44]

On January 17, 2017, Zervos filed a defamation lawsuit against Trump, arising from his statement that she had lied about the allegations.[45][46] Marc Kasowitz is defending Trump in the case.[47] Zervos has filed a subpoena for "all documents concerning any woman who asserted that Donald J. Trump touched her inappropriately".[48] On March 21, 2018, a New York Supreme Court judge decided to allow a defamation lawsuit against the President to go forward.[49][50][51] On June 4, 2018, Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Jennifer Schecter ruled that Trump must be deposed by January 31, 2019.[52]

As of September 9, 2018, Trump will provide written answers under oath in the defamation lawsuit.[53]

On March 14, 2019, a New York appeals court rejected President Trump's argument that the Constitution makes him immune from state lawsuits, clearing the way for a defamation suit.[54][55] On November 2, 2019, Trump agreed to submit to questioning under oath by January 31, 2020.[56]

A contestant on The Apprentice also said he kissed her without consent and also groped her. Which fits with the pattern of what he claimed behind closed doors that he does, which is just physically goes for it without waiting for consent because he's a star and he can do whatever he wants. He claims they let him but women filing suits against him say otherwise, which means either they're all lying, or he at least sometimes assaults women because he thinks he has the right to, due to being rich/powerful/famous.

Those aren't the only ones, I just picked those two. I get that once he was running for, or was, president, it increases the chances that people would come forward with lies (though I think automatically dismissing those cases in the hopes that they're lies is irresponsible), but clearly the accusations began before that motivation was there.

 

[JGrimez]

If what Jill Harth is saying is true then that would be an example of Trump crossing the line into assault. However it says "The suit was withdrawn after Houraney settled with Trump for an undisclosed amount in a lawsuit that claimed Trump had backed out of a business deal." So there was a business deal involved, how do we not know that she made up the accusations to put pressure on him for that? He has never settled a sexual assault allegation which to me says a lot.

"Zervos is being represented by attorney Gloria Allred." This is a red flag as Allred is notorious for attacking Trump. Nothing has eventuated from that case so far.

I can see why people would think Trump is sexual predator based on what they heard him say on the mic + the accusations, but if he was legitimately a serial sexual predator then we would see a long list or just more credible accusations like we've seen against other men who did face punishment. And there are plenty of people who would pay a LOT of money to take Trump down, so I believe if those women exist then they would come forward. Is Trump a sleazy alpha male? Yes I would agree with that statement. But that's a far cry from a rapist or someone who commits sexual assault.

And the motivation was always there as he was wealthy and successful.

 

[JGrimez]

Democrats Vote to End Mandatory Reporting of Sexual Battery in Schools

Democrats continue to exploit the leverage they have gained through the demographic transformation of Virginia. In the video below, you can watch them bring the state another step closer to utopia by putting an end to the mandatory reporting of sexual battery in schools. Republican Delegate C. Todd Gilbert of Shenandoah cannot believe his ears:

HB 257 passed 46-44. This means that crimes such as sexual battery, stalking, and threats made against teachers no longer have to be reported to law enforcement. No doubt this will help keep justice-involved youth safe from the racist predations of white supremacist police.

• 02/26/20 House: Bill text as passed House and Senate (HB257ER)
• 02/27/20 House: Signed by Speaker
• 02/27/20 Senate: Signed by President

I thought Democrats were leading the MeToo movement?

 

[Xorkoth]

Well that's fucked up... I do really hate establishment Democrats. It's why I voted Bernie in the primary (among other reasons).

I guess the president endorses it too.

 

[✿Dai₷y✿]

If you don't understand how powerful alpha men can correctly interpret the unspoken signs exhibited by interested women, make the first move with women and why some women love that and consider it extremely attractive, then I don't know how to further explain it.

The women who Trump associated with wanted it seemingly and that's evident by no serious allegations or charges. Weinstein's accusers obviously didn't want it as they're testifying in court that he raped them....

Why do men in some position of power get away with sexual predatory behaviour for real do you think?

Would a company or buisness that just happens to have a sexual predator amongst it prefer to quash the victim and protect the employee in an attempt to avoid negative publicity of being associated with that man or are these men that good at their behaviour they do seem completely wholesome?


I would have thought it is not a bad reflection on any buisness or company to act and remove any predator when they become aware of it.

 

[JGrimez]

Why do men in some position of power get away with sexual predatory behaviour for real do you think?

I do think this is a serious problem. A high-ranking cop for example could easily get away with abusing people and quashing any legal action. What if high-ranking police were involved with child trafficking rings and covering for other powerful people in different fields? Scary thought, and is probably a reality.

Would a company or buisness that just happens to have a sexual predator amongst it prefer to quash the victim and protect the employee in an attempt to avoid negative publicity of being associated with that man or are these men that good at their behaviour they do seem completely wholesome?

The smart thing to do would be to investigate/fire the accused so that it doesn't come back to bite them in the ass later (*cough*PennState). Look at Weinstein - his employee contract specifically mentioned sexual harassment and how much they would have to pay out for each subsequent violation.

I would have thought it is not a bad reflection on any buisness or company to act and remove any predator when they become aware of it.

True but it is entrenched into a lot of companies

 

[✿Dai₷y✿]

Statement from the victims representatives following Weinstein's 20 year sentence imposed today, there's something in it for all of us.

“We thank the court for imposing a sentence that puts sexual predators and abusive partners in all segments of society on notice. We thank the survivors for their remarkable statements today and indescribable courage over the last two years,” Manhattan Dist. Atty. Cyrus Vance Jr. said in a statement. “Harvey Weinstein deployed nothing less than an army of spies to keep them silent. But they refused to be silent, and they were heard.” Weinstein’s legal troubles may yet worsen. The Los Angeles County district attorney’s office said Wednesday that it would begin the process of extraditing him to California, where he is charged with multiple counts of sexual assault stemming from alleged attacks against two women in 2013. A court date in Los Angeles has not been set. Before he was sentenced, Weinstein spoke in court for the first time during the proceedings. He had declined to testify at trial, but Weinstein told Burke on Wednesday that media scrutiny and the risk of earning scorn in Hollywood had actually silenced his defenders, not the victims. “People losing their jobs over the fact that they testified for me,” he said, “or people being afraid they are going to lose their jobs, is not the right atmosphere for the United States of America.” Sitting less than two miles from the site of the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, Weinstein also reminded the gallery that he had led philanthropic efforts that raised millions of dollars for New York police and firefighters. He also downplayed his ability to use his Hollywood stature to silence his victims. “I couldn’t blackball anybody,” he said, “cause if I said don’t use that actress, guys at Warner Bros. would have said, ‘I’m gonna use her just to spite that bastard.’” Six women testified against Weinstein during the trial, describing interactions with him as both brutally violent and mentally draining. Mann, who said she had a consensual but abusive relationship with Weinstein that turned violent whenever she refused his advances, had to be helped from the stand and was led out of court sobbing in the midst of three days of marathon testimony last month. Mann began her remarks at Wednesday’s proceedings by addressing that moment. “The day my uncontrollable screams were heard from the witness room was the day my whole voice came back into my power,” she said, describing the howls as the cries she couldn’t make the day Weinstein attacked her. Mann criticized Weinstein’s attorneys for trying to paint her relationship with him as “loving,” while imploring Burke to consider the long-term effects of Weinstein’s attack on her. “I live in a body that has become unsafe. ... The recurring nightmare of how I feel is just as real as the day it happened,” she said. Haley said she “lived in fear and paranoia on a daily basis” after coming forward with accusations against Weinstein in 2017. She routinely suffered panic attacks, and a private investigator began questioning her friends after she came forward, she said. In asking Burke to hand down the near-maximum sentence, the case’s lead prosecutor, Joan Illuzzi-Orbon, emphasized a narrative the prosecution sought to establish at every step of the trial: that Weinstein used his power first to entrap his victims and then to silence them. “How did he use that power? He got drunk on the power,” she said. “He saw no authority over him. No limit to what he could take. No desire he could not grant himself. The young, struggling dreamers were not even people to him.” Weinstein was arrested and led into a New York City Police Department precinct in 2018. Prosecutors charged him with multiple counts of sexual assault involving Mann, Haley and actress Annabella Sciorra, who said Weinstein forced his way into her Manhattan apartment and assaulted her in the early 1990s. Sciorra’s case was too old to prosecute on its own, but New York prosecutors used it as the basis for two counts of predatory sexual assault. If convicted of those counts, which would have required jurors to believe Weinstein raped Sciorra and either Mann or Haley, he would have faced a minimum of 25 years in prison and a maximum life sentence. Weinstein was wheeled into court Wednesday morning wearing a light blue blazer and a white shirt, open at the collar. Over the course of the trial, he walked to and from court with the aid of a walker, the result of spinal decompression surgery last year. Shortly after Weinstein was convicted, his lead attorney, Donna Rotunno, told Burke that her client needed injections to prevent losing his eyesight. Weinstein was also hospitalized for heart palpitations the day the verdict came down, delaying his eventual trip to Rikers Island. In an 11-page memo filed last week, prosecutors asked Burke to impose a sentence that would reflect the “total lack of remorse” Weinstein had shown for his crimes. The document outlined a litany of uncharged allegations against Weinstein, including 16 different claims of sexual assault and harassment, some of which were previously unknown. ADVERTISEMENT Weinstein’s attorneys pounced on the document in court Wednesday. Damon Cheronis asked Burke not to consider the memo, as it laid out allegations that hadn’t been scrutinized in court, marking a de facto due process violation for Weinstein. Burke seemingly agreed with that, though he appeared annoyed that three of Weinstein’s lawyers wanted to speak on their client’s behalf. The defense team also argued that the average sentence for the top count Weinstein was convicted of was roughly 8 ½ years. Rotunno requested that Burke sentence her client to the minimum, given his deteriorating health and her assertion that no jury could be impartial given the years of intense media coverage around Weinstein. “Mr. Weinstein came in with the forces of the media, the forces of the world, pushing against the chance to have a real, impartial jury in this case,” she said. After hearing Burke’s decision, Rotunno said she was “overcome with anger” and believed Burke had made up his mind long before Wednesday. “I think it was very clear nothing we did or said today was going to make a difference,” she said. Illuzzi-Orbon, the lead prosecutor, did not mince words about what fate she thought Weinstein deserved, reeling off a number of quotes from former employees and confidants of the mogul as if they were blurbs for an upcoming feature film. Weinstein, Illuzzi-Orbon said, had been described as a “frightening power addict,” a liar and, bluntly, “the devil.”

The bolded part struck a chord here.

Suck shit Scumbags who take advantage of a privileged position to take advantage of the vulnerable, this guy is one of many. His movies aren't that great to have that much influence.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah, very glad he got what he deserved. Truly a bad man. Made some great movies, but we can't let stuff like that excuse this sort of thing anymore. This case was a landmark in pushing towards eliminating this sort of culture. If the rich and powerful no longer believe they can get away with whatever they want, they may think twice before doing stuff like this.