The Psychoactive Substances Act - Update: Illegals R Us

[steewith2ees]

I think it's a pretty bad thing.

I also have no idea how such a complete vague mess of a legislation is actually going to pass through. Especially due to the complete lack of research, and an overall great deal of vulgar, arrogance and ignorance toward anyone, and everyone who expressed concern on the dangers this bill may cause.

The bill seems more likely to do more harm, than any good. I don't think this bill was even written with any intention on reducing the harm that drugs can have on a persons life.

We actually had a chance to monitor, control and reduce harm by making the RC industry government controlled.

Cloudstrife - despite it being the total mess you describe it has already passed, its done, its too late to stop it under any circumstances, its happened. Its not a bill anymore, its an Act Of Parliament that is already law - they have just decided to wait untill April before they start enforcing it in order to give the 'industry' time to respond and pack up.

@ Julkie & Sprout - As for selling RC's (and any other currently contolled drug for that matter) - yes it would be safer if they were sold under the supervision of someone who knows what they were on about and who could supervise their sales an monitor their usage. But some of us can read as well, so alot of the problems could be solved by packaging like this (Im using the benzos again as an example) - instead of covering the package with skulls, warning signs and the 'not for human usage' bullshit that they have to print to stay within the law, would it not be more beneficial for users if the packaging stated 'Diclazepam' - followed by a list of effects, and most importantly, something along the lines of 'This is a benzodiazepine type drug that can cause dependence. Please do not use for more than 14 days consecutively'. with a more in depth information leaflet about its safe use as one would get with a licensed medicine.

These things still gets sold anyway with no guidance at all about their safe use. If it was wasn't for bluelight and other similar resources users of all manner of drugs would have no information at all on how to use them as safely as possible and as a result lives may already have been saved. Imagine the problems that could have been avoided if these products had been sold as described above instead of all this plant food /.bath salt / research chemical bullshit hoops the vendors have had to jumo through to simply supply the products within the 'law'

'Ok' someone must have said. 'You can sell this crap, but dont let us catch you advising people on how to take them in a manner that reduces the harm they cause. You can sell them as long as you dont warn the customers about the potentially devastating effects they may experience. If you advise and warn them, then no - one will be harmed and we wont have any bullshit statistics to help pass our bullshit law in 2016..

Remember - Mephedrone was banned after it was implicated in 2 deaths. The ban went ahead, despite the fact that no one followed up on the deaths, which were subsequently discovered to have both been caused by the unprescribed use of Methadone Linctus which was sold to these lads in a pub. The drug was therefore banned after being responsible for exactly 0 deaths in the UK and of course the media did not attempt to amend the story when the truth came out, as methadone overdoses are common and boring, wont sell papers and wont get any new drugs banned.

 

[One Thousand Words]

A death isn't the only way a drug can harm. You only have to look at the MDMA forum to see dozens of punters who have mentally injured themselves with the drug after binges, and I would say that mephedrone is a far more neurotoxic drug.

The new laws best effect will be weeding out idiots who think that legal=safe. It won't stop people using drugs, it will definitely slow the rapis explosion of poorly understood new compounds flooding the recreational market.

If Etizolam was any good it would be prescribed by the NHS because it would be cheaper to source than conventional benzos with patents

 

[steewith2ees]

To be fair OTW, I didn't personally stock up on Etizolam as I think it is actually crap (i havnt bothered with any of the thienos), but the other benzodiazepines the RC market offers are as good as their pharm counterparts, indeed, both Diclazepam and Flubromazepam were both developed by Roche but were not developed into medicines as they were not as convinient for patients as existing treatments (flubromazepam is a powerfully sedating anxiolytic, but was seen as suitable to be marketed as neither as the drug takes to long to take effect and has too long a duration to be used as a sleeping pill and is too sedating for use as a daytime anxiolytic). I still stand by my assertion that 1-P LSD is superior to LSD 25 and has nothing worse than the same risk profile. Most of the RC's on sale are crap, but there are a couple of worthy ones that are reasonably well understood and these would be the ones that would continue to sell and thrive in the long run

None of these drugs are completely safe but what drugs are. Only morons who would stick a sparkplug down there neck if they were told it would give them a buzz actually think illegal = dangerous / legal = safe. Most drug users have some idea of what they are taking and know that RC's are exactly the same as controlled drugs, they just havn't been around as long.

 

[nuube]

A death isn't the only way a drug can harm. You only have to look at the MDMA forum to see dozens of punters who have mentally injured themselves with the drug after binges, and I would say that mephedrone is a far more neurotoxic drug.

The new laws best effect will be weeding out idiots who think that legal=safe. It won't stop people using drugs, it will definitely slow the rapis explosion of poorly understood new compounds flooding the recreational market.

If Etizolam was any good it would be prescribed by the NHS because it would be cheaper to source than conventional benzos with patents

How?

 

[SquidInSunglasses]

How?

Because if it's about the same amount of hassle to get 98% purity speed as whatever shitty new RC knockoff is being pushed, you won't get that many people going for the knockoff, and the vendors know this. You'll only get new shit making a big impact if it's quality, because they won't have the advantage of ease of access over the mainstays. Assuming they actually bother to prosecute the RC companies that try and stay in business above-board, of course, if that doesn't happen then the whole thing won't make the blindest bit of difference.

 

[zombywoof]

I have to say no

I was never a fan of mephedrone as i liked methylone much more but when you got it online it was quite pure. I dont gat it but a mate still gets some meph everynow and again and its three times the price it was and cut with god knows what. Now when the ban comes in i can see a lot of people still wanting some 3f or some noids so there will still be a market for these chems. For me personally i wont be sad to see the noids go but the lysergamides are another matter altogether and that will break my heart

 

[consumer]

How?

Our analogue laws in Australia have pretty much killed the RC market in Australia. Generally most people here are limited to and stick with the classics. The RC scene here was nothing like what you guys have over there but thats largely due to how strict and broad our laws are. I am guessing 90% of the rc chemicals do not find a home in the black market.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Why have abc-not quite there when you can have lsd?

 

[consumer]

Why have abc-not quite there when you can have lsd?

I will happily stick with my LSD.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Have you noticed how little nBomes exist in Australia of late? I don't know if it is because of market pressure or the fact that the hippies have taken a stand and kept things pure.

 

[nuube]

Because if it's about the same amount of hassle to get 98% purity speed as whatever shitty new RC knockoff is being pushed, you won't get that many people going for the knockoff, and the vendors know this. You'll only get new shit making a big impact if it's quality, because they won't have the advantage of ease of access over the mainstays. Assuming they actually bother to prosecute the RC companies that try and stay in business above-board, of course, if that doesn't happen then the whole thing won't make the blindest bit of difference.

I know for myself illegal or traditional street drugs are impossible to get, yet I can get several very exotic compounds online without having to move from my chair, the RC laws won't change that. You can easily buy compounds illegal in your own country. I for example cannot get LSD25 - I don't know anyone and the Dark Web leaves me stumped. However I can buy ETH-LAD on line easily despite it having the same illegal status as its cousin!

The cats out of the bag on this one and people will still want their highs and there will be other people to take advantage of that.

 

[One Thousand Words]

It's currently easier finding the shittier rip off compounds because there are no legal barriers to stop them flooding the market.

 

[zombywoof]

Im old now so i dont eat it like i used to, i use it now mainly for music appreciation and have to say what i got last week from 1p-eth-lad seemed to be up there with anything i have taken if not better. When i was a lot younger i used to do a lot of lsd and it just got mundane after a while where it got to the point when i would drop some i would start counting down the hours till it was over. I just stopped using then when al-lad came along decades after my last acid trip it blew me away again. I liked the length of this trip over lsd though it really wasnt that much shorter i did find it easier to get to sleep. !p-lsd gives me what i want at 150ug doses and again i cant wait to give my 1p-eth -lad another go. And all i had to do was go online and pay wait for the postman and hey presto..Nothing illegal no shady dealers thats even if i could find one these days and i didnt even have to leave the house.

 

[consumer]

Have you noticed how little nBomes exist in Australia of late? I don't know if it is because of market pressure or the fact that the hippies have taken a stand and kept things pure.

I know for a fact that there are zero nBomes circulating in the doof scene i used to be part of. There is no shortage of high grade L though. The hippies up there have made sure the L keeps flowing and its so cheap and of a high quality that its made it all but impossible for the nBomes to get into the market.

 

[One Thousand Words]

It helps that the scene has wised up to it's presence and people are actively avoiding them too. Market forces at play. Hooray for capitalism

 

[consumer]

Im old now so i dont eat it like i used to, i use it now mainly for music appreciation and have to say what i got last week from 1p-eth-lad seemed to be up there with anything i have taken if not better. When i was a lot younger i used to do a lot of lsd and it just got mundane after a while where it got to the point when i would drop some i would start counting down the hours till it was over. I just stopped using then when al-lad came along decades after my last acid trip it blew me away again. I liked the length of this trip over lsd though it really wasnt that much shorter i did find it easier to get to sleep. !p-lsd gives me what i want at 150ug doses and again i cant wait to give my 1p-eth -lad another go. And all i had to do was go online and pay wait for the postman and hey presto..Nothing illegal no shady dealers thats even if i could find one these days and i didnt even have to leave the house.

I must admit i am curious to try some of these lysergamides especially ALD-52 but i doubt i ever will. I am not too concerned though as i have a good stash of high grade LSD and would have no problem sourcing more if needed. Its my favourite substance and i cant imagine not having access to it.

 

[spacejunk]

It helps that the scene has wised up to it's presence and people are actively avoiding them too. Market forces at play. Hooray for capitalism

Dead customers is bad for business.

 

[consumer]

Dead customers is bad for business.

That and the drug it was often masquerading as is in plentiful supply and cheap. The LSD scene in Australia has never been better in my memory.

 

[Sprout]

Just out of curiosity: are the Amp. psyches available in Dingo Territory? MDA, DOx, BOx etc?

 

[spacejunk]

Yeah, exactly.
Also, NBOMe drugs are banned at their (apparent) source - China - but i believe there are other similar xx-NBOH chems floating around.
But fuck that; why sell dangerous hallucinogens?
I've never been into serious dealing, but hooking good people up with quality LSD has always seemed like a community service of sorts, to me.

Selling dangerous phenethylamine psychedelics that are active in microgram dosages, as acid, on blotter, is the absolute opposite of selling LSD - there should be a fucking law against it, eh?

As for the topic of this thread....yeah, it is probably bad legislation - but the RC market is pretty frightening from a public health point of view. Something like this was inevitable, even if it is reactionary and counterproductive.
Maybe my perspective is skewed because i live in a country with a blanket ban on analogs (or anything that resembles a drug) - and very strict customs and border control authorities that seize a lot of incoming drugs in the mail etc - yet you can still buy fucking lethal sythetic 'noids in various sex shops and stuff.

UK RC users have had a pretty good run, all things considered.
A lot of drugs essentially available for purchase unrestricted for years.
I'd be shocked if this bill actually prevents UK users from buying RCs. It just might get a little more difficult; which isn't always a bad thing.
People unwilling to do any research or apply any HR principles to their experimentation probably shouldn't be able to get them so easily IMHO.
But i dunno, it's not a black-and-white, yes-or-no question to my way of thinking.

Edit -

Just out of curiosity: are the Amp. psyches available in Dingo Territory? MDA, DOx, BOx etc?

Available in what sense?
On the black market? Sometimes.
Through internet vendors? Well, we don't have any domestic (non darknet) vendors that i am aware of - and what makes it into the country must get past some very advanced mail screening by Customs.
I used to get a few 2Cx drugs and mescaline analogs from Canada, but they are all covered by the catch-all legislation these days.