Doomed2pain
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it doesn't really work like that on the nos waiting lists are unavoidable.
-
OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Harm Reduction The Pain Management Mega Thread Version 4
- Thread starter Tripman
- Start date
- Status
BiggDirty01
Bluelighter
Hey guys, I just wanted to make a quick point about the emerging attitude that narcotics are somehow the solution or that "my doctor is an asshole for not prescribing me X" and just point out that its the alternative treatments, physical therapies and various modalities of anti inflammatory's.
I'm not discounting anyone's pain, it just seems like the perception here is that opiates are the solution to our pain problems when in fact it is the exact opposite as they often lead to hyperalgesia and false pain signals coming from the extended use of powerful opioids.
I posted earlier about how I've reduced my ER meds in half in just over 6 weeks and this is coming off of 2 revisions to a spinal fusion. I just want to encourage everybody to pursue (with passion and vigor) any and all solutions to our pain problems.
Best wishes to you all...
I'm not discounting anyone's pain, it just seems like the perception here is that opiates are the solution to our pain problems when in fact it is the exact opposite as they often lead to hyperalgesia and false pain signals coming from the extended use of powerful opioids.
I posted earlier about how I've reduced my ER meds in half in just over 6 weeks and this is coming off of 2 revisions to a spinal fusion. I just want to encourage everybody to pursue (with passion and vigor) any and all solutions to our pain problems.
Best wishes to you all...
tentram
Ex-Bluelighter
^nice post
i agree for the most part.
to the person above using methadone for break-through meds, i would be asking for an alternative for a few reasons. despite it's long half-life the pain killing properties give maximum effect within the first 8 hours, after it takes hours to kick in. you're then essentially left with the narcotic in your blood as to help abstain/kill cravings as someone on ORT would.
like doug (jktm), those uninformed may be imposed to take extra because of the long time of it's onset risking overdose. you want something which is going to take effect within ~30-45mins such as IR oxycodone, dilauded, etc, etc. i'd question your doc about that decision and ask/discuss the possibility for an alternative.
i agree for the most part.to the person above using methadone for break-through meds, i would be asking for an alternative for a few reasons. despite it's long half-life the pain killing properties give maximum effect within the first 8 hours, after it takes hours to kick in. you're then essentially left with the narcotic in your blood as to help abstain/kill cravings as someone on ORT would.
like doug (jktm), those uninformed may be imposed to take extra because of the long time of it's onset risking overdose. you want something which is going to take effect within ~30-45mins such as IR oxycodone, dilauded, etc, etc. i'd question your doc about that decision and ask/discuss the possibility for an alternative.
I realize all there are more than just opioids as far as pain management goes, and I've tried most of them. I'm not supposed to take NSAIDs though because of my GI issues (ordered from GP as well as by GI doctor), I've tried PT (and no, I didn't just go once.......), Tried several stints of chiropracy, tried TENS, tried UV, tried decompression, trigger-point dry needling, message, aqua therapy. So many different techniques.
Doomed2pain
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i have tried everything that has been thrown at me, i was even willing to try more permanent methods but unfortunately my condition made me an invalid patient for the procedures. that sucked because it was my last chance at getting more adequate pain relief. i take various medications for my pain and do pt 5 times a day and meditation at least 4 times a day
macd610
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- Feb 6, 2012
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- 590
I know that you fully participate in your pain management, and aren't just looking for some magic drug. I also know the agony youre in since you've told me about your condition, and have read up on it.
I'm so sorry you're not getting the care you deserve. You will get through this though... you are a very strong person and I hope you know that.
Doomed2pain
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- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
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Im at the drs at 5 wish me luck, i need some form of relief before it gets really cold. if i have to go through what i went through last winter again Im either going to end up on the psych ward for a very long time or it will kill me. Im trying to be strong but Im struggling to hold on
macd610
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- Feb 6, 2012
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- 590
Doomed2pain
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,448
no joy until i see this other pain team my Dr is trying to get it rushed as soon as much as he can
tentram
Ex-Bluelighter
best of luck doomed2pain; i hope you get the problem sorted sooner than later for your pain and psychological problems you're experiencing as a result.
brighton
Bluelighter
^ just what i was going to say 
BiggDirty01
Bluelighter
^nice post
to the person above using methadone for break-through meds, i would be asking for an alternative for a few reasons. despite it's long half-life the pain killing properties give maximum effect within the first 8 hours, after it takes hours to kick in. you're then essentially left with the narcotic in your blood as to help abstain/kill cravings as someone on ORT would.
like doug (jktm), those uninformed may be imposed to take extra because of the long time of it's onset risking overdose. you want something which is going to take effect within ~30-45mins such as IR oxycodone, dilauded, etc, etc. i'd question your doc about that decision and ask/discuss the possibility for an alternative.
Tentram: Methadone is my Extended Release med. I take oxycodone 30mg every 4 hours for break thru. Just wanted to assure you that my pain doc isn't a quack. LOL No worries, I'm well taken care of at my pain cllinic.
Doomed: I've been praying for you since we talked. I hope this new Doctor can get you to a tolerable level of pain which makes all the other stuff easier to handle. Best Wishes
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tentram
Ex-Bluelighter
^yep, exactly.
40mg plus over an extended period of time and then it kicks in.
smart, beautifully minded and caring people think a lot the same
40mg plus over an extended period of time and then it kicks in.
brighton said:^ just what i was going to say
smart, beautifully minded and caring people think a lot the same
Well said. I began PM many years ago and started the with the typical Nsaids, injection therapy, PT, ultrasound, massage, accupuncture and on and effing on. I wound up with a duodenal ulcer from all Nsaids that may not lead to the "cursed addiction problems" of opiates but they come with their own special side effects that aren't all fun and games. I also lost a lucrative job to pain. There are times it is so bad that I thank God I have a few Oxy to take instead of massive quantities of ibuprofen, naproxen (YUCK), or other meds that have permanently trashed my GI tract.
Once I had been through nearly everything other than opiates I started on them and have not looked back. The inevitable wd's are shit and yes, hyperalgesia is of great concern but they NEVER make me nauseated, they allow my pain to get to a manageable level at which I can excercise to strengthen muscles that would otherwise waste away and atrophy and to some extent, and they helped give me my life back.
Of course, opiate therapy has so many pitfalls that it is hard to stay above ground but do not discount it as an alternative when other therapies are of little use. By the way, Methadone for BT pain? WTF?
BiggDirty01
Bluelighter
I certainly hope my words were NOT taken as an afront to anyone's personal battle with chronic pain.
After I had my first major back surgery last year, I went to a treatment center that specialized in chronic pain. After 5 months of opiates, I was opiate free and managing to live a somewhat normal life after learning yoga, doing physical therapy, acupuncture, TENS and everything else I can think of.
I just want to express to you guys that our situations are never truly HOPELESS unless we start believing that to be true. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
So, again my apologies if I came across as self centered putz. I post in this thread almost exclusively in terms of BL, and I think the amount of compassion and feeling from fellow pain people on here can sustain almost anyone in their time of need.
Lets keep it up guys! I know others have helped me and all anyone of us can ask is to be able to do the same thing for another: just listen.
Best wishes for a weekend devoid of as much pain as possible!
After I had my first major back surgery last year, I went to a treatment center that specialized in chronic pain. After 5 months of opiates, I was opiate free and managing to live a somewhat normal life after learning yoga, doing physical therapy, acupuncture, TENS and everything else I can think of.
I just want to express to you guys that our situations are never truly HOPELESS unless we start believing that to be true. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
So, again my apologies if I came across as self centered putz. I post in this thread almost exclusively in terms of BL, and I think the amount of compassion and feeling from fellow pain people on here can sustain almost anyone in their time of need.
Lets keep it up guys! I know others have helped me and all anyone of us can ask is to be able to do the same thing for another: just listen.
Best wishes for a weekend devoid of as much pain as possible!
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Advice on substances the could allevite my stomach suffering
This post is wery long so if you cant read it all just read the bold sections
I’m a Norwegian male 40 years old , struggling with worsening stomach illness situation is desperate.
I write and post this here on bluelight to get suggestions on what drugs and treatments might help alleviate my stomach pain and spasms and resulting heart palpitations. As my situation is complicated I will write a short chronological list and some links to give a overview. This post will be long but please bear with me, as I have a need to explain a very complicated situation.
I am a worrier and axoius person been like that since early childhood and this anxoiusness is probably a contributing factor, but regardless of the cause, the physical suffering is still very real.
1999 I got shingles and the nerve pain never went away , the docs didn’t really listen to me so after one year I caved in and started self medicating on buprenorphine 1-2 mg a day.
99 hepex zoster , with post herpetic neuralgia up to present day
00-02 self medicated with bupe 1-2mg a day.
02 got a panic attack stopped bupe and started diazepam 15 mg a day
02-07 worse anxiety , diazepam 15 mg a day
07 tapered off diazepam , digestive problems and worsening of heart palpitations
07 got dx Apergers syndrome
07 – 09 protracted withdrawal symptoms , started developing GERD and ibs
09 got spasm diaphragm hard able to breath and strong tachycardia.
10 gastroscopy showed GERD, hiatal hernia and ultrsound s showed an abundancy of gas in tranverse colon
Since 2009 I have had ca 20 'attacks' where my diapragm spasms. Its like a punch in the stomach and the diapragm / bowels / epsophagus or all starts to quiver, I then loose control of my diaphragm and the air it knocked of my chest. It gets really heard to breath , my heart flutters for some time and then goes up to 150-200 bpm tachycardia. These attacks last from 5 to 30 minutes , that worst tachycardia and brethless feeling usually some minutes. They come on times where there is a lot tension and soreness in my stomach and can be triggered by just standing up or getting exited. In the attacks there is always a tingling vacuum feeling under my right rib near to the hepatic flexure, close to where I have the nerve pain from the shingles. When wave of this tingling hits in an attck it is triggers more of rapid heart beat or missed beats. I think it must be the nerves or hepatoc felcture or possible duodenum in the area being very irritated and spasming, misfiring and affecting the vagus nerve , witch in turn affects the heartbeat.
In any case this 'attacks' are extremely uncomfortable and scary it feels life theratening. And I dont tihnk I can ever be used to it and handle the really bad ones, but I have found that lying on the right side will calm it down a little faster.
I had my heart checked by a good cardiologist and holter monitor and he said its fine no dangerous rhythm disturbances or structural abnormalities, although they haven caught one of the severe attacks the holter monitor.
But these worst attacks are only the tip of the iceberg , my stomach is bothering me 24/7 Daily activities such as drinking , eating walking , showering is a major challenge and brings worsening of the pain,and soreness. The last 2 years I have had increasing pain after orgasm, and the last 3 months I have been unable to have orgasm , as the stimulation severely worsens the pain under right rib and feels like the bowels have some spasm with moving of gas immediately after the orgasm, its similar to the pain I get after taking a shower or walking, only worse. Due to this the last 3 months I have to wash myself mostly with a cloth and avoid walking as much as possible. My diet is more and more restricted and eating soup and sometimes even drinking water worsens discomfort. Needless to say my life quality is severy diminished by all this and its to much to try to describe it all. I hardly have a social life and cannot work. I fortunate that my wife is understanding and patient with this and stand by me , I don’t know if I would have been able to bear it alone.
I have used acid blocker pantoprazole 40mg daily and it helps on the acid but seems to make the gas an motility problems worse. I would like to try a period without it but when I try to quit the acid gets so much worse and I feel it can trigger more sensitivity problems in the oesophagus , so as of now im stuck with it for better or worse.
Been to 2 gastro docs and got gastroscopy they dont seem to have a clue , only said to keep taking the pantoprazole and learn to live with it. My GP doc is at a loss he sais that Norway is to small country to have experts on my condition. Altough the the factors likely causing my condtion is decribed no doctor here seems to have enough knowledge to ackovlede it and suggest treatments.
2 weeks ago I suggested to my Gp.Doc to try Norspan patch to lessen the hypersensitivity I have now been on 5 ug/h for one week and went up to 10ug/h 3 days ago. But alas, except for a little opiate fuzziness and warmth the buprenorphine don’t seem to work on the stomach at all, and some of the pain migh even feels worse. And yesterday I had a severe spasm attack come on while i was driving. Had been eating some fried fish pudding the day before and felt more sore than usual from the morning. Had a moderatly stressful phone call call and after it the radiating pain aboun the strenum worsened to the point it got hard concentrating on the driving. Then it got hard to breathe and the all to familiar quivering in the diaprhagm started , like a earthquake it knocks the air out of me and causing my heart to flutter and then to go into very rapid pulse . I pulled over and called 113 was so out of breath i could hardly speak. It subsided over the next 5 minutes and when the the ambulance arrived after 10 minutes the palpitations had settled down to 100 bpm .
They drove me to my GP and the effort of walking in to the docs office tridggerd a smaller 'attack' . Some minutes later my GP came to see me and he told he feels very frustrated about not being able to help me more.
To summarize I think my present hypersensitivity is caused be the nerve damage and central sensitization form the post herpetic neuralgia under my right rib , this is the centra of the raditaing pain I get with stmiulation or activity and it is also cloe to the colon hepatic flectura the hernia and oesophagus. Then this sensitivity got worse from the valium taper and gave rise to gerd and worse ibs. Also the intestial flora is out of balance after 3 antibiotic treatments the last 2 years . 5 years after the valium taper it seems im in a negative spiral when it takes less and less physical or emotional stress to irritate, up to now where even walking and drinking water gives strong discomfort.
As of now I have no life quality , every activity is involves pain and fear for spasm attacks.
At this point the doc is willing to give me everything, and I asked for a prescription of clonazepam yesterday as its the only thing I could tinhk of. Im not sure I will try it and in any case will wait til i take of the norapsn patch in some days. To go into regular use on a benzodiazepine after 5 years on valium with all the side effects and withdrawal, the clonazepam must be really effective on my stomach to be worth taking for me and I would probable be on it the rest of my life. Anyone experience clonazepam alleviate hypersensitive stomach and ibs symptoms?
I also consider Sativex , the 50/50 thc/cbd spray but after the last attack im doubting it will work and my doc is reluctant to prescribe it. Maybe the buoprenorphine would work better in dosages over 2 mg a day?.
My question to the bluelight community s is you have an idea based on personal experience on drugs that could work on stomach spasm , be it opiate benzo ,neuroleptic or any other substance that could alleviate my suffering.
With regards , Artur
ps: I paste some links with desciptions here
hypersensitive esphagus
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2950665/
central sensitisation
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/pain/microsite/science4.html
romeheld syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roemheld_syndrome
hiatal henia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiatus_hernia
This post is wery long so if you cant read it all just read the bold sections
I’m a Norwegian male 40 years old , struggling with worsening stomach illness situation is desperate.
I write and post this here on bluelight to get suggestions on what drugs and treatments might help alleviate my stomach pain and spasms and resulting heart palpitations. As my situation is complicated I will write a short chronological list and some links to give a overview. This post will be long but please bear with me, as I have a need to explain a very complicated situation.
I am a worrier and axoius person been like that since early childhood and this anxoiusness is probably a contributing factor, but regardless of the cause, the physical suffering is still very real.
1999 I got shingles and the nerve pain never went away , the docs didn’t really listen to me so after one year I caved in and started self medicating on buprenorphine 1-2 mg a day.
99 hepex zoster , with post herpetic neuralgia up to present day
00-02 self medicated with bupe 1-2mg a day.
02 got a panic attack stopped bupe and started diazepam 15 mg a day
02-07 worse anxiety , diazepam 15 mg a day
07 tapered off diazepam , digestive problems and worsening of heart palpitations
07 got dx Apergers syndrome
07 – 09 protracted withdrawal symptoms , started developing GERD and ibs
09 got spasm diaphragm hard able to breath and strong tachycardia.
10 gastroscopy showed GERD, hiatal hernia and ultrsound s showed an abundancy of gas in tranverse colon
Since 2009 I have had ca 20 'attacks' where my diapragm spasms. Its like a punch in the stomach and the diapragm / bowels / epsophagus or all starts to quiver, I then loose control of my diaphragm and the air it knocked of my chest. It gets really heard to breath , my heart flutters for some time and then goes up to 150-200 bpm tachycardia. These attacks last from 5 to 30 minutes , that worst tachycardia and brethless feeling usually some minutes. They come on times where there is a lot tension and soreness in my stomach and can be triggered by just standing up or getting exited. In the attacks there is always a tingling vacuum feeling under my right rib near to the hepatic flexure, close to where I have the nerve pain from the shingles. When wave of this tingling hits in an attck it is triggers more of rapid heart beat or missed beats. I think it must be the nerves or hepatoc felcture or possible duodenum in the area being very irritated and spasming, misfiring and affecting the vagus nerve , witch in turn affects the heartbeat.
In any case this 'attacks' are extremely uncomfortable and scary it feels life theratening. And I dont tihnk I can ever be used to it and handle the really bad ones, but I have found that lying on the right side will calm it down a little faster.
I had my heart checked by a good cardiologist and holter monitor and he said its fine no dangerous rhythm disturbances or structural abnormalities, although they haven caught one of the severe attacks the holter monitor.
But these worst attacks are only the tip of the iceberg , my stomach is bothering me 24/7 Daily activities such as drinking , eating walking , showering is a major challenge and brings worsening of the pain,and soreness. The last 2 years I have had increasing pain after orgasm, and the last 3 months I have been unable to have orgasm , as the stimulation severely worsens the pain under right rib and feels like the bowels have some spasm with moving of gas immediately after the orgasm, its similar to the pain I get after taking a shower or walking, only worse. Due to this the last 3 months I have to wash myself mostly with a cloth and avoid walking as much as possible. My diet is more and more restricted and eating soup and sometimes even drinking water worsens discomfort. Needless to say my life quality is severy diminished by all this and its to much to try to describe it all. I hardly have a social life and cannot work. I fortunate that my wife is understanding and patient with this and stand by me , I don’t know if I would have been able to bear it alone.
I have used acid blocker pantoprazole 40mg daily and it helps on the acid but seems to make the gas an motility problems worse. I would like to try a period without it but when I try to quit the acid gets so much worse and I feel it can trigger more sensitivity problems in the oesophagus , so as of now im stuck with it for better or worse.
Been to 2 gastro docs and got gastroscopy they dont seem to have a clue , only said to keep taking the pantoprazole and learn to live with it. My GP doc is at a loss he sais that Norway is to small country to have experts on my condition. Altough the the factors likely causing my condtion is decribed no doctor here seems to have enough knowledge to ackovlede it and suggest treatments.
2 weeks ago I suggested to my Gp.Doc to try Norspan patch to lessen the hypersensitivity I have now been on 5 ug/h for one week and went up to 10ug/h 3 days ago. But alas, except for a little opiate fuzziness and warmth the buprenorphine don’t seem to work on the stomach at all, and some of the pain migh even feels worse. And yesterday I had a severe spasm attack come on while i was driving. Had been eating some fried fish pudding the day before and felt more sore than usual from the morning. Had a moderatly stressful phone call call and after it the radiating pain aboun the strenum worsened to the point it got hard concentrating on the driving. Then it got hard to breathe and the all to familiar quivering in the diaprhagm started , like a earthquake it knocks the air out of me and causing my heart to flutter and then to go into very rapid pulse . I pulled over and called 113 was so out of breath i could hardly speak. It subsided over the next 5 minutes and when the the ambulance arrived after 10 minutes the palpitations had settled down to 100 bpm .
They drove me to my GP and the effort of walking in to the docs office tridggerd a smaller 'attack' . Some minutes later my GP came to see me and he told he feels very frustrated about not being able to help me more.
To summarize I think my present hypersensitivity is caused be the nerve damage and central sensitization form the post herpetic neuralgia under my right rib , this is the centra of the raditaing pain I get with stmiulation or activity and it is also cloe to the colon hepatic flectura the hernia and oesophagus. Then this sensitivity got worse from the valium taper and gave rise to gerd and worse ibs. Also the intestial flora is out of balance after 3 antibiotic treatments the last 2 years . 5 years after the valium taper it seems im in a negative spiral when it takes less and less physical or emotional stress to irritate, up to now where even walking and drinking water gives strong discomfort.
As of now I have no life quality , every activity is involves pain and fear for spasm attacks.
At this point the doc is willing to give me everything, and I asked for a prescription of clonazepam yesterday as its the only thing I could tinhk of. Im not sure I will try it and in any case will wait til i take of the norapsn patch in some days. To go into regular use on a benzodiazepine after 5 years on valium with all the side effects and withdrawal, the clonazepam must be really effective on my stomach to be worth taking for me and I would probable be on it the rest of my life. Anyone experience clonazepam alleviate hypersensitive stomach and ibs symptoms?
I also consider Sativex , the 50/50 thc/cbd spray but after the last attack im doubting it will work and my doc is reluctant to prescribe it. Maybe the buoprenorphine would work better in dosages over 2 mg a day?.
My question to the bluelight community s is you have an idea based on personal experience on drugs that could work on stomach spasm , be it opiate benzo ,neuroleptic or any other substance that could alleviate my suffering.
With regards , Artur
ps: I paste some links with desciptions here
hypersensitive esphagus
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2950665/
central sensitisation
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/pain/microsite/science4.html
romeheld syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roemheld_syndrome
hiatal henia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiatus_hernia
Doomed2pain
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,448
thanks for all of the well wishes. unfortunately the temp is now below freezing and it is making me very unwell that is why i haven't been in touch for a few days i haven't had the strength to reply. i appreciate overdone prayers though.
hope everyone is having as little pain as possible
hope everyone is having as little pain as possible
brighton
Bluelighter
Tantrix - Have you tried capsaicin cream? It is meant to be good for nerve pain. So is gabapentin and pregabailin.
The clonazepam may be helping your stomach spasms due to its muscle relaxant properties. Have you tried muscle relaxants?
I would also suggest seeing a pain specialist/pain clinic. I hope these suggestions help!
The clonazepam may be helping your stomach spasms due to its muscle relaxant properties. Have you tried muscle relaxants?
I would also suggest seeing a pain specialist/pain clinic. I hope these suggestions help!
Tanks for the advice. My doctor dont want to precribe clonazepam anyway now.. he suggested oxazepam , then i countered with diazepam. I used it 5 years so i know the deal with diazepam... Do you think it is a big difference between diaz and cloanz in how much it can relieving nervepain and stomach spasm?.
In any case banzo is last resort , and my gp doc ageerd to that i will be trying Lyrica first and maybe add Oxycontin. Problem is after 5 years on valium and 2 years in wd i got a phobia against drugs, especially like Lyrica that can make me wery dizzy ect. But i feel i have no choice than to try to get relief. The Norspan 10ug/h i tried 2 weeks dont help at all, if anything its making the radiating nerve pain worse and making me achey and fatigued.
I hope some of it works... I sure need some relief now
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