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The One and Only Official CEP Ron Paul Thread

thank for trying to dig up dirt on a candidate that wants to end the war on drugs. Im glad we have biased moderators trying to misinterpret ron paul even though he wants to end the drug war. Ironic for this board.

What you quote only gets translated into a lack of FEDERAL funding for abortion. He has never once supported legislation that would outlaw the state from performing abortions nor does he intend to.
 
kong said:
While his beliefs probably come from religion, I see nothing in the statement that invokes anything religious.

Its the 'life begins at conception' issue that has me worried. Granted, one could argue that technically it does, because the zygote has the potential to become a human. However, that statement has generally been absorbed by the anti-choice crowd.
 
Blacksoulman said:
What you quote only gets translated into a lack of FEDERAL funding for abortion. He has never once supported legislation that would outlaw the state from performing abortions nor does he intend to.

Wouldn't defining life as beginning at conception have the effect of doing that? If you write that into your law, then pretty clearly abortion meet a legal definition of murder - wouldn't it?

On your other point: just because this is a drug board doesn't mean that all our moderators or members are necessarily pro-legalisation (though obviously many are), nor that we regard a candidate's stance on drugs as the main reason to vote for or against them (personally, if someone wanted to legalise all drugs, but criminalise abortion, there's no way I'd vote for them; but that's just my personal opinion).
 
oh and the parts i bold... i think are pretty telling about his reasoning about why he's cutting federal funding against abortion, though the bill isn't going after it outright.
 
This abortion issue is really getting old, imo. Both pro-life and pro-choice arguements are equally correct and a fair compromise should be acheived, written into law, and we should move on. Instead the media, our elected politicians, every bible-thumping raving fool and his brother and cousins and every militant crew-cut sign waving lesbian and the rest their coven keeps dragging this on and on and on and on and on until we get so sick that overworked and underpaid pregnant women everywhere are puking up their zygotes into the spaghetti and feeding it to the people arguing abortion rights over their evening meals at their local Olive Gardens.
 
October 9, 2007 6:00 AM

Ron’s Revolution
Could Dr. Paul really surprise us all?

By Dave Kopel


This weekend, I attended and spoke at the Second Amendment Foundation’s annual Gun Rights Policy Conference, which was held at a convention center in northern Kentucky, a few miles away from Cincinnati. What I saw and heard there changed my mind about the viability of Ron Paul’s presidential candidacy; Paul is going to far outperform the expectations laid out for him.

First, for some background: twenty years ago, the Second Amendment Foundation (the second-largest pro-Second Amendment group in the U.S.) began sponsoring an annual Gun Rights Policy Conference, in conjunction with other pro-gun groups, including the NRA. For a full working day on Saturday, and half a day on Sunday, the conference features 10-15 minute speeches by writers, radio hosts, group leaders, and other pro-2d Amendment activists.’’

This year, the audience was the biggest ever. At the first conference I attended, in Dallas in 1988, Ron Paul gave a speech on behalf of his Libertarian Party presidential candidacy. I had liked Paul ever since I had met him in 1981, when Paul gave a thoughtful speech to a group of several dozen interns at which I was present (at the time, I was a congressional intern for Pat Schroeder). I voted for Paul in 1988, and in light of the performance of President George H. W. Bush, I’m glad I did.

Last Saturday night, at the buffet dinner and reception, the speaker was Ron Paul. The difference between Paul as a speaker in 1988 and in 2007 was startling. In 1988, he was perfectly competent. This time he was electrifying. In 1988, his campaign could do little more than leave some literature on a table. This time, he had volunteers to hand out literature, including (for the recipient audience) devastating material on Romney and Thompson. (Included among the materials distributed were Romney’s gubernatorial signing statement of the Massachusetts ban on so-called ““assault weapons,”“ and a copy of Sen. Russ Feingold’s letter to Senator Thompson after the passage of McCain-Feingold, with Feingold’s handwritten thanks, claiming that the bill never could have passed without Thompson’s help.)

Most impressive, however, was the large crowd of young people who showed up to hear Paul’s speech. They were enthused and energized, many of them sporting Ron Paul Revolution t-shirts. (The shirts are very clever, since they use “Revolution” to also say ““LOVE”,” which makes revolution seem a lot nicer.)

I did a lot of work in the Gary Hart campaign in 1983-84, while I was at the University of Michigan’s Law School. In terms of support from young volunteers, Paul is miles ahead of where Hart was before the Iowa caucus. After Hart finished second in Iowa, and then won New Hampshire, his campaign attracted a huge number of students, but not before. Paul, on the other hand, has what appears to be a staunch contingent of young supporters already.

The volunteers loved Paul’s speech, of course, and so did the large majority of the rest of the GRPC crowd. The GRPC activists are very wary of politicians whose pro-gun positions are a matter of convenience or calculation, rather than sincere dedication to the Constitution. The top tier of the Republican field obviously has a problem with candidates whose 2007 positions on guns or other issues are inconsistent with some of their past actions. You have to get down to Mike Huckabee before you can find a candidate who doesn’t have a consistency problem. (Huckabee’s record on the Second Amendment is perfect, and his statements clearly prove that he understands and believes in the issue, and isn’t just reciting platitudes and talking points.)

The people who have been looking for “the Constitution-in-exile movement” can stop searching for the non-existent secret headquarters in The Federalist Society’s offices. Instead, they can just drop in on a Ron Paul rally. Paul’s goal is to restore the Constitution to full strength. Ronald Reagan aimed to undo or temper some of aspects of the Great Society and the New Deal. Paul aims for much more, to demolish the corporate state that was built in the early 20th century and was entrenched by Woodrow Wilson during World War One.

His message contains nothing that is different from that which he’s been saying since he was first elected to Congress in 1976, or that which you can hear every four years from the Libertarian presidential candidate. However, this time the message comes with a serious national field operation. (Run by Dennis Fusaro, who formerly was state legislative director of Gun Owners of America, and knows a lot about how to leverage a group of dedicated and highly ideological activists.) With five million dollars raised in 3Q 2007, it appears that Paul’s message is catching on.

In the handful of campaigns that raised more money in the third quarter, some of the donors were engaging in “pay to play”—raising money from their business contacts in order to buy “access” and influence in case the candidate wins. One can be assured, however, that nobody is giving money to Ron Paul in order to buy 2009 “access” to the Executive Branch. They’re giving money because they want to eliminate about 90-percent of the federal government’s cash and regulatory boodle for rent-seekers.

Undoubtedly Paul is being helped by the Iraq issue, since he is the only Republican candidate who advocates withdrawal. But it would be a mistake to characterize his campaign as single-issue in the sense of George McGovern’s in 1972 or Tom Tancredo’s today. Some of Paul’s fans disagree with him on the Iraq question, but like him enough on other issues to support him overall. His supporters span a broad ideological spectrum, because they can find common ground in our Constitution’s rights and freedoms. How many other Republican candidates are getting Democrats to re-register as Republicans so they can participate in the Republican primaries?

The Republican Revolution of 1994 promised substantial shrinkage of a bloated federal government. The Republicans who were swept into Congress in 1946 had promised the same thing, and they delivered a great deal. The 1994 Republicans delivered much less, were out-maneuvered by President Clinton, and eventually became part of the problem.

But deep down there’s still a hunger among much of the Republican base for someone who will shrink the Leviathan, rather than merely attempt to use it for conservative ends.

Like the Ronald Reagan message (and unlike the Pat Buchanan message), the Ron Paul message is fundamentally positive. There may be some anger about the depredations of huge and aggressive government, but the campaign’s theme is “Hope for America” and its premise is that the American people are good people who can achieve the best for themselves, their families, their community, and their nation when the federal government gets out of the way and stops behaving like a helicopter mother.

As with Bill Richardson (my favorite Democratic candidate), I strongly disagree with Paul’s approach to the Iraq War. But I’m thrilled that a candidate with such a strong pro-constitution vision is doing so well.

Is Paul still a longshot? Yes, but so were George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, and Gary Hart. It is true that Republicans have, for over half a century, nominated whoever was leading in the first Gallup poll after Labor Day. But the past doesn’t control the future. Until 2000, for instance, no-one who had lost the New Hampshire primary had ever won the general election.

Polls show that about quarter of Americans are libertarians, in a general sense, so Paul has lots of room for growth. If he can keep raising enough money to get his message out, then with some strong finishes in the early states, he will start getting earned media. And beyond that, Ronald Reagan is among the many candidates who have proven that many voters will support someone even if they disagree with him on many issues, if they respect his integrity and find hope in his optimistic vision.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGVhODdiZjY5NDljNDA5NWUwYTY1NmJmZDBiOWQzM2I=
 
mulberryman said:
This abortion issue is really getting old, imo. Both pro-life and pro-choice arguements are equally correct and a fair compromise should be acheived, written into law, and we should move on. Instead the media, our elected politicians, every bible-thumping raving fool and his brother and cousins and every militant crew-cut sign waving lesbian and the rest their coven keeps dragging this on and on and on and on and on until we get so sick that overworked and underpaid pregnant women everywhere are puking up their zygotes into the spaghetti and feeding it to the people arguing abortion rights over their evening meals at their local Olive Gardens.

exactly what "compromise" is there? that's the thing about most wedge issues. There's no happy meeting ground.

"pro-choice" imo is the middle ground. It's not the government (like china) telling people to have abortion. Pro-choice is not pro abortion. It allows those who wish to have them.. to have them, and those who are pro-life.. to not.

pro-life on the other hand is restricting someone's liberty based on a belief with no substantial backing.

i really don't think it's a tired argument or debate. Ever been in a relationship where you nor the female are able to take of a kid? ever been scared out of your fucking mind for yourself, your lover, and a life that could be brought into this world.. knowing that all 3 of those lives would more than likely be destroyed.. .when YOU don't belief that a zygote is a life?

you and everyone else can stand back and act like it's just a political issue.. ya know, like the war in iraq.. where we're not directly affected.. but like the war in iraq.. when you're directly affected or could have been directly affected by laws that concern situations that you've lived through, or close ones to you have lived through and you had to witness it.. then yeah, the strong opinions come out.

frankly, i encourage the polarization of the issue. and i encourage the anger over it. and frankly, if i were to speak my true mind i'd be in violation of the forum.. but believe me.. i respect level has no mercy to those i'm opposed to on this issue.
 
Infernal said:
Its the 'life begins at conception' issue that has me worried. Granted, one could argue that technically it does, because the zygote has the potential to become a human. However, that statement has generally been absorbed by the anti-choice crowd.

Why anti-choice? I understand that it describes whats going on accurately, but why not stick with pro-life? I wouldn't call a pro-choice person pro-death. Semantics I know....

So his beliefs could affect birth control? (not sure I get it)
 
DigitalDuality said:
hey, neither does 'intelligent design'

I think a person could have a much easier time believing that abortion is wrong for non-religious reasons than in intelligent design without believing in a god.
 
Well, if they can change Pro-Choice to Pro-Death then I'm fine with Anti-Choice. His quantifying statements could enable a legalistic approach to turning abortion into murder. The devil is in the details so to speak.
 
Infinite Jest said:
Wouldn't defining life as beginning at conception have the effect of doing that? If you write that into your law, then pretty clearly abortion meet a legal definition of murder - wouldn't it?

On your other point: just because this is a drug board doesn't mean that all our moderators or members are necessarily pro-legalisation (though obviously many are), nor that we regard a candidate's stance on drugs as the main reason to vote for or against them (personally, if someone wanted to legalise all drugs, but criminalise abortion, there's no way I'd vote for them; but that's just my personal opinion).

I don't think some of you are quite grasping his sincere motivation for states' rights.

"I deal with the abortion issue like i deal with all acts of violence... All acts of violence under our constitution are dealt with at the local level... The more difficult the issue, the more local it should be for sorting out these difficult issues... I believe strongly this should be at the local level...I am absolutely against the federal government funding abortion."
-Ron Paul
personally, if someone wanted to legalise all drugs, but criminalise abortion, there's no way I'd vote for them; but that's just my personal opinion).

I could only see that logic coming from a woman. Are you a woman?
 
Noone will ever criminalize abortion at the national level. It just won't happen and the most hearltess Jesus-loving swastika flying red-staters will ever manage to get it past the millions of us true compassionate intelligent patriots.
 
As long as murder is not defined as a federal crime, e.g. it is left to the states to police, then HR 1094 would not cause abortion to be banned nationwide.

True, but the state's rights argument would lead to a de facto ban on abortion in large portions of the country.
 
I propose we allow states to ban abortion, but we maintain a federally run system of free abortion clinics in all US cities with populations over 100,000. (Free to those who qualify per income levels and such, of course)

There, problem solved.
 
mulberryman said:
Noone will ever criminalize abortion at the national level. It just won't happen and the most hearltess Jesus-loving swastika flying red-staters will ever manage to get it past the millions of us true compassionate intelligent patriots.

Except you guys don't vote.

:)

But really, who cares how much of a Statist Paul is? If he allows a removal of abortion rights through mismanagement of a bill, what good is he as someone who 'protects the individuals rights?' Let's not play silly buggers, Paul is a claimant to the Libertarian Ethos, he's running on a Republican ticket, his actions show him as actually a Statist. He's pandering. He's pandering to the Religious Right on the abortion issue, an issue I remind you most Libertarians are 'pure' on. He's pandered to the Republicans to even get elected by adopting their party title. Paul will roll over and play, that is the message he is sending.

Let's face it, Paul is a politician. I think the Internet needs to pull its head out of the sand on this one.
 
I think running as a Republican makes sense give our wonderful two party system.
 
Infernal said:
Except you guys don't vote.

:)

But really, who cares how much of a Statist Paul is? If he allows a removal of abortion rights through mismanagement of a bill, what good is he as someone who 'protects the individuals rights?' Let's not play silly buggers, Paul is a claimant to the Libertarian Ethos, he's running on a Republican ticket, his actions show him as actually a Statist. He's pandering. He's pandering to the Religious Right on the abortion issue, an issue I remind you most Libertarians are 'pure' on. He's pandered to the Republicans to even get elected by adopting their party title. Paul will roll over and play, that is the message he is sending.

Let's face it, Paul is a politician. I think the Internet needs to pull its head out of the sand on this one.

As he is Pro-Life it would be pretty hard for him to consider abortion a right I'd think. Not that I know if he does or not, but I don't see how any pro-lifer could see abortion as a right if they see it as murder.
 
Broshious said:
As he is Pro-Life it would be pretty hard for him to consider abortion a right I'd think. Not that I know if he does or not, but I don't see how any pro-lifer could see abortion as a right if they see it as murder.

They are wrong. So long as a fetus cannot live outside its mother's body it has no rights. Its simply not human yet, it does not have the complexities required to fit that definition. The pro-life arguement is in every respect no more valid than enforcing manditory vegitarianism.

Still, both democracy and the sane rationality of human discretion can both be protected. There need not be an abortion clinic in every poduck backwood whistlestop county in Texas. Just as long as we're assured there'll be one in Dallas, San Antonio and Houston, and everywhere else the people democratically require.
 
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