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The One and Only Official CEP Ron Paul Thread

That is up for debate because the constitution pertains to the people in the country who are suppose to be here. Not those that have come here illegally. Of course my interpretation could be wrong/different than that of others.

Congrats, by the way, on the 420th post in this thread :)
 
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I hope all of you Ron Paul supporters know that he wants to change the constitution in a way that would make Abortion, Gay Marriage and Embryonic Stem Cell research illegal on the federal level. This means it will override all state laws.

He's no different then any extreme right wing candidate (ex: Strom Thurmond) except he has a good marketing team.

Furthermore, he has taken donations from White Nationalist organizations such as storm front.

He is manipulating his position in order to get donations. He is just as slimy as any other candidate if not worse.

I'll be willing to provide links for this on the condition that his supporters promise to not resort to name calling and personal attacks. You can tell I've had to deal with his supporters before. I wish Ron Paul would talk some sense into them, but he's as loony as they are.
 
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Please show me the links that support your claims. I want to hear the words come right out of his mouth or something he voted on. Besides, some of those views such as abortion and embryonic stem cell research could hinder the pursuit of happiness because people consider embryos human. But I will gladly read any links you provide and do my own research.
 
Paul raises more than $3.5M in one day By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer
29 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul, aided by an extraordinary outpouring of Internet support Monday, hauled in more than $3.5 million in 20 hours.

Paul, the Texas congressman with a Libertarian tilt and an out-of-Iraq pitch, entered heady fundraising territory with a surge of Web-based giving tied to the commemoration of Guy Fawkes Day.

Fawkes was a British mercenary who failed in his attempt to kill King James I on Nov. 5, 1605. He also was the model for the protagonist in the movie "V for Vendetta." Paul backers motivated donors on the Internet with mashed-up clips of the film on the online video site YouTube as well as the Guy Fawkes Day refrain: "Remember, remember the 5th of November."

Paul's total deposed Mitt Romney as the single-day fundraising record holder in the Republican presidential field. When it comes to sums amassed in one day, Paul now ranks only behind Democrats Hillary Rodham Clinton, who raised nearly $6.2 million on June 30, and Barack Obama.

Paul spokesman Jesse Benton said the effort began independently about two months ago at the hands of Paul's backers. He said Paul picked up on the movement, mentioning in it speeches and interviews.

"It's been kind of building up virally," Benton said.

The $3.5 million, he said, represented online contributions from more than 22,000 donors.

Paul has been lagging in the polls behind Republican front-runners. But he captured national attention at the end of September when he reported raising $5.2 million in three months, putting him fourth among Republican presidential candidates in fundraising for the quarter.

Paul as of Monday had raised $6.3 million since Oct. 1, more than half his goal of $12 million by the end of the year, according to his Web site.

Paul advocates limited government and low taxes like other Republicans, but he stands alone as the only GOP presidential candidate opposed to the Iraq war. He also has opposed Bush administration security measures that he says encroach on civil liberties.
 
Auto Rock said:
Please show me the links that support your claims. I want to hear the words come right out of his mouth or something he voted on. Besides, some of those views such as abortion and embryonic stem cell research could hinder the pursuit of happiness because people consider embryos human. But I will gladly read any links you provide and do my own research.
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Well not all people consider embryos human beings. I for one don't. Furthermore, I don't think the government has a right to define that for me or anyone else. Its a personal matter.

Even better, I will show you his voting record.

I will start with the "choice" issues.

Keep in mind he is a Baptist Born-Again. This is a very extreme form of Christianity.

First lets examine abortion.

In 2005 and 2007, Paul introduced the Sanctity of Life Act, which would define human life as beginning from conception , removing abortion from federal jurisdiction and effectively negating Roe v. Wade.[79][80] Paul has also introduced a Constitutional amendment with similar intent.

Okay, now Paul has portrayed that he views abortion as a states right issue. Yet has tried to pass a constitutional admendment that declares life begins at conception. This would mean that an abortion would be the same as murder. So any doctor performing the operation would be a murder. Even if a state passes a law that says abortion is okay, the constitution would over ride this. The rest of it is just wording that basically means nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.776.IH::

The Full text I posted (the thomas.loc.gov link) above is long. I hate using wikipedia as a source but it provides a good summary so here it is

The Act declares that: (1) human life shall be deemed to exist from conception, without regard to race, sex, age, health, defect, or condition of dependency; and (2) the term "person" shall include all such human life. Recognizes that each state has authority to protect the lives of unborn children residing in the jurisdiction of that state.

Notice 1 makes human life "exist" at conception. Number 2 states nothing about the state being able to override it. My previous points about the constitution above still stand. Again, there would be no way to override the changes to the US Constitution since it is the supreme law.

Later it states

Amends the federal judicial code to remove Supreme Court and district court jurisdiction to review cases arising out of any statute, ordinance, rule, regulation, or practice, or any act interpreting such a measure, on the grounds that such measure: (1) protects the rights of human persons between conception and birth; or (2) prohibits, limits, or regulates the performance of abortions or the provision of public funds, facilities, personnel, or other assistance for abortions.[1]

Here's another link about the bill


http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/110_HR_1094.html

Now up Stem cell research:

There are two types of Stem Cell Research. The one Ron Paul opposes is Embryonic research. This appears to be the most beneficial in stem cell research. Pro-Life candidates tend to be opposed to this. They call the Embryo's "Snow Babies" because they feel that they are actually a human being. These are the thing that are used in Invitro Fertilization.

"Voted NO on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)"
"Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007)"

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul.htm
http://www.orble.com/ron-paul-is-against-human-embryonic-stem-cell-research/

What I find disturbing is the fact that the RP campaign has portrayed him as viewing stem cell as a states right issue. When in reality he supports one type of research, but not the other.

Lastly on gay marriage.

"“If I were in Congress in 1996, I would have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which used Congress’s constitutional authority to define what official state documents other states have to recognize under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, to ensure that no state would be forced to recognize a “same sex” marriage license issued in another state. This Congress, I was an original cosponsor of the Marriage Protection Act, HR 3313, that removes challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act from federal courts’ jurisdiction."

http://straightsecrets.com/blog/?p=9

Okay again he later starts on the states rights deal. But what he doesn't discuss is the fact that the Defense of Marriage act is a federal law which would make any state decision regarding gay marriage null and void. This has passed, which is why gay marriages aren't offically recognized. Essentially a state can perform them, but the couple isn't legally married

The Federal Government may not recognize same-sex or polygamous marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/leg23.htm
http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/RonPaul.htm
 
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Who gives a shit about abortion or stem cell research? There are far more important things going on, like the wars on terror, drugs, Islam, and civil liberties.
 
Coolio said:
He's closing in on $4 million raised today.
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This is a good political stunt for him. In the large scope of things its not that big of a deal, but it is a good attempt at getting some attention.

What I can't wait though is for all the RP supporters to start bitching about the supposed media conspiracy against him though. That shits so annoying.

He's not getting any attention because he only has like 2 percent of the vote, not because the media is "scared" of him.

A below the surface look at this guy brings up some really disturbing things IMO
 
Coolio said:
Who gives a shit about abortion or stem cell research? There are far more important things going on, like the wars on terror, drugs, Islam, and civil liberties.
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Well for one I do. Especially when a guy who claims to love the constitution is willing to change it for the pro-life agenda.

Also, IMO except for the drug war this guys views aren't very good. Even when it comes to the drug war he will cut the funding that will allow people to get off of said drugs. I support harm reduction, not social darwinism.

But really I'm not going to get to involved in this, frankly RP supporters have been some of the most uninformed and annoying supporters I have ever dealt with in general and you are already taking a similar tone to the annoying ones. They scare me off of giving this guy any real consideration. But his political, social and economic views are completely incompatable with mine, even if he was as genuine as he claimed to be

His civil liberties record isn't all that great. The patriot act sucks, but other issues (including abortion, gay marriage and stem cell research) are civil liberty issues of equal importance.
 
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Abortion, gay marriage, and stem cell research are meaningless diversions. Health care is a meaningless diversion. The American Empire is crumbling all around you and the federal government is trying to follow Pakistan's lead and turn the country into a giant prison camp. The only things that will matter in 2009 are shutting down the military-prison-industrial-mercenary complex and trying to stop the next Great Depression. Maybe if Paul or Kucinich are somehow elected they'll accomplish those goals and still have time to save our children from becoming mindless public-educated drones with no hope of a stable economic future.
 
Coolio said:
Abortion, gay marriage, and stem cell research are meaningless diversions. Health care is a meaningless diversion. The American Empire is crumbling all around you and the federal government is trying to follow Pakistan's lead and turn the country into a giant prison camp. The only things that will matter in 2009 are shutting down the military-prison-industrial-mercenary complex and trying to stop the next Great Depression. Maybe if Paul or Kucinich are somehow elected they'll accomplish those goals and still have time to save our children from becoming mindless public-educated drones with no hope of a stable economic future.
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See this sounds like a bunch of conspiracy theorist stuff to me. I don't see this happening. I doubt the American people would ever allow this to happen. I hate to say it but to me this sounds like the stuff that you hear on those crazy far right radio stations.

Don't get me wrong, the country is screwed up. We need some radical change and thats why I am supporting Obama.

Its not screwed up to the point that we have to abolish the government and turn the country into a libertarian state. Plus I am strongly opposed to libertarianism. I don't think Paul's economic vision would ever work, in fact, IMO it would make things much much worse.

And Stem cell research, Abortion and Gay marriage are all important issues to me. I would never vote for a person willing to change the constitution in a way to make these illegal. Especially since it seems that he would only do this in order to fit his religious convictions.

I'm not saying you are, but I can sum up alot of RP supporters statements as this

"Vote for Ron Paul stupid or the government is gonna kill you"
 
Coolio said:
Who gives a shit about abortion or stem cell research? There are far more important things going on, like the wars on terror, drugs, Islam, and civil liberties.
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Those are 2 major topics, something that you should reconsider.

Phactor, I think you underestimate the intentions of the news. I don't think it is a conspiracy that Ron Paul isn't getting much media attention, I just think that they are trying to push their own political agendas and none of the non major political candidates are getting the media attention they deserve.

Most, if not all politicians are crooked in some for or another, including Ron Paul and Obama. They all have had their screw ups and have wish washed back and forth on certain issues.

According to the 10th amendment the states should have every right to make laws on issues not pertaining to the constitution. There for they could vote and theoretically do everything that Obama wants. Personally I just don't think I should have to support every human being with my tax dollar, a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point.
 
Auto Rock said:
Those are 2 major topics, something that you should reconsider.

Phactor, I think you underestimate the intentions of the news. I don't think it is a conspiracy that Ron Paul isn't getting much media attention, I just think that they are trying to push their own political agendas and none of the non major political candidates are getting the media attention they deserve.

Most, if not all politicians are crooked in some for or another, including Ron Paul and Obama. They all have had their screw ups and have wish washed back and forth on certain issues.

According to the 10th amendment the states should have every right to make laws on issues not pertaining to the constitution. There for they could vote and theoretically do everything that Obama wants. Personally I just don't think I should have to support every human being with my tax dollar, a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point.
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I don't underestimate the intentions of the news. Shit like FOX news is dangerous. I can say that they aren't scared of Ron Paul or his ideas and there is no conspiracy against him. His ideas just 1. aren't new 2. Appear crazy to most.

Yeah the 10th admendment does allow protect the states when making laws. Thing is Ron Paul wants to change the constitution in a way that would override all state laws when it comes to issues such as abortion, gay marriage and embryonic stem cell research.

That means that it will override any law that a state passes regarding that issue.

An Example:

As I said earlier, RP tried to pass a law which added to the constitution that "life" began as soon as it was conceived. That would make the fetus a human being which would mean an abortion is a murder. It ends that "human beings" life.

I just don't understand why a person would want to deregulate all gun control, yet make the act of abortion (which I view as a right of a women) equivalent to murder. But thats just me

As far as you not want to support human beings with every tax dollar, well you won't have to. Taxes exist to fund public works, social programs, defense etc. They certainly don't take all of our income. I understand that you feel that we may pay to much in taxes, but Ron Paul's ideas are really really extreme when it comes to this. There would be little if any taxes coming in. Furthermore there wouldn't be an IRS to collect alot of those taxes.

You are entitled to your opinions though. I just wanted you to be aware of some things that I have found that appear to extremist to me.

What I really don't like about Ron Paul is the fact that to me it appears he isn't fully informing his supporters when it comes to his ideals and intentions. His website comes off as very misleading.
 
I find the consumer tax quite beneficial. Everyone needs certain things, such as food. We don't pay taxes on food but with the consumer tax we would. That would require that EVERYONE pay taxes... they really wouldn't have a choice because they would need food. You can't really say it would or wouldn't work because it would fluctuate with people spending. What you can say for sure though is, that every person who spends any amount of money is paying their dues to the government.
 
^^^

Problem is some people make alot less money then others. Its not very fair to make someone pay the same amount of taxes when the make 10 dollars an hour compared to someone else making 50 an hour. Its obviously a much bigger "hit" for the person only making 10.

Some, for many different reasons simply cannot work. This could be because of a physical issue with them, or that they simply do not have the employment oppertunities avilable to them.

Remember, there are millions of people living in poverty in this country. These people currently depend on government money to survive.

Also, and I don't know this. How would this be collected without an IRS? Do you think people will just turn it it? We already have tons of people and corporations attempting to skip on paying taxes.

By the way, you are the most courteous and friendliest Ron Paul supporter I have ever dealt with. Respect.

Anyways, I gotta go to bed. I'd be happy to discuss this with you tomm. I'm enjoying it.
 
Coolio said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:George_W._Bush_administration_controversies

^ Most of the major candidates are not promising to reverse most of this abuse by the executive branch, Supreme Court, and Congress.
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Could I get a bit more info. I'm an Obama supporter and I really like how he is responding to many of these issues. I am in no way a supporter of Bush. As a matter of fact I hate the fuck. I've had Ron Paul supporters accuse me of being a Bush supporter several times, even after I've posted I am not. The worst part about it being is I wasn't looking for it. They spammed other threads that I had started basically accusing me of it (being a Bush supporter that is).

I've been opposed to Dubya since day 1. He's destroyed this country. We both agree we need to fix it and we both have found someone that we feel can do the job.

Anyways, good night to you. Nice to talk to you. I remember you being around for awhile, can you believe its been 3 years since you registered? I can't believe I've been on this site for 5+ years (I had other names before this one).
 
Generally people with more money will spend more and vice versa, so it could work and then again, it could fail like our current system. As for collecting, I actually have no clue, which is the answer you knew you were probably going to get if I said I was in support of Ron Paul :) I guess it wouldn't be a total loss to keep the IRS with the consumer tax.

Also that is the problem I have with Welfare, I know certain people NEED it, but there are people who don't. I would be in support of welfare if there was a better check and balance system.

We have very different opinions and it has been a joy actually debating someone once where it doesn't turn into a fight. You sir, are an alright left winger with me :D

I have to go to bed also. Hope to continue this tomorrow. Night!
 
For the nth fuckin time; All you people bringing up abortion, education, or whatever, keep in mind he wants the state to handle a majority of these issues. Stop fucking saying he is going to ban abortion. His whole campaign is built on the federal government NOT overseeing these issues.

"I deal with the abortion issue like I deal with all acts of violence... All acts of violence under our Constitution are dealt with at the local level... The more difficult the issue, the more local it should be for sorting out these difficult issues... I believe strongly this should be at the local level...I am absolutely against the federal government funding abortion."
-Ron Paul candidates@google
 
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