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The Old and Overgrown DOC thread (fixed)

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CastorTroy said:
huh? i think you need to edit your post

and, how much DOC have you ever taken? i hope you don't plan on jumping up to 10mg from really low amount.

but i cant give any comment on plugging. i dont think ill ever try it. but thats just me.
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if you have read any of swims posts you would have realized that he has taken up to 8mg of DOC allready. This means the jump would be only 2mg. No need to jump on SWIM for making a typo. He meant to say 6mg plugged would PROBABLY be as strong as 12mg orally. It was a typo, and its good you found. SWIM is well informed about these chemicals and would never to anything that would harm his body. This is a harm reduction site, yes, and he is a responsible user. If you would have taken the time to read his posts you would have known that he has taken 8mg before and felt like it was not enough. It isnt like he has only taken 2mg before and is jumping to 10mg8o

SWIM is just interested in plugging this substance. He will probably start much lower with this method though, hopefully around 4mg. His comment that 6mg plugged would be about 12mg orally is just his opinion. He does not know the exact comparison but he thinks it is going to be a lot stronger plugged. He has read before that if you plug, you are going to want to start at about half your normal dose. This is why SWIM was thinking of plugging 6mg. This would make the dose ~ 12mg which would probably be perfect. Just because you cant take 12mg of a chemical doesnt mean someone else cant. Clearly, this substance treats every invividual differently. You see some people having ++++ with under 6mg and some people are barely even tripping off of 6mg.

Sorry for the typo, but maybe you need to be more informed about someones history of use before you try to say they are going to do something stupid. Honestly, SWIM would never do anything drastic like jump from 2mg to 10mg. SWIM has taken 8mg before and 6mg before. 10mg is going to be a good jump and 12mg even a better one. There is no doubt in SWIMs mind that he will be a okay and able to post a trip report on the site when he comes down=D
 
DivineMomenT said:
if you have read any of swims posts you would have realized that he has taken up to 8mg of DOC allready. This means the jump would be only 2mg. No need to jump on SWIM for making a typo. He meant to say 6mg plugged would PROBABLY be as strong as 12mg orally. It was a typo, and its good you found. SWIM is well informed about these chemicals and would never to anything that would harm his body. This is a harm reduction site, yes, and he is a responsible user. If you would have taken the time to read his posts you would have known that he has taken 8mg before and felt like it was not enough. It isnt like he has only taken 2mg before and is jumping to 10mg8o

SWIM is just interested in plugging this substance. He will probably start much lower with this method though, hopefully around 4mg. His comment that 6mg plugged would be about 12mg orally is just his opinion. He does not know the exact comparison but he thinks it is going to be a lot stronger plugged. He has read before that if you plug, you are going to want to start at about half your normal dose. This is why SWIM was thinking of plugging 6mg. This would make the dose ~ 12mg which would probably be perfect. Just because you cant take 12mg of a chemical doesnt mean someone else cant. Clearly, this substance treats every invividual differently. You see some people having ++++ with under 6mg and some people are barely even tripping off of 6mg.

Sorry for the typo, but maybe you need to be more informed about someones history of use before you try to say they are going to do something stupid. Honestly, SWIM would never do anything drastic like jump from 2mg to 10mg. SWIM has taken 8mg before and 6mg before. 10mg is going to be a good jump and 12mg even a better one. There is no doubt in SWIMs mind that he will be a okay and able to post a trip report on the site when he comes down=D
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hey, i i wasn't trying to get on your case or anything. i was simply saying that you need to fix the typo, and that i hope you weren't making a big jump. no i didn't read you previous posts, but i wasn't trying to get on you or anything, i never said you were doing something stupid. i was just saying that i hope you know what youre doing.

there was no hate involved... and i can't wait to hear your report :D
 
i have 2 days in a row off. im going to try a few mg's tomorro night and i'll tell you all how it goes. I've been off all meds for well over 2.5 months now, and i havent taken a PEA, nor any psychedelic for that matter for a couple months. I can't wait to see if there is a difference. I will also fast.
 
Cat Again said:
Maybe some people just have a high natural tolerance for it.
Iv seen this with other PEA's.
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I, for instance need at least double the highest dose in PIHKAL for 2CB, 2CC, and 2CI just to get a mild ++. I know it's not the substances, because 3 other people have tried all three substances from the same batches, and experienced the expected effects with mid level PIHKAL effects.

I've tried DOC 4 times, and experienced differing effects, from a mild +++ on 3mg, to barely ++ on 5mg. I'm an average weight male, each time was with at least a week off from any other substance, and at least a couple hours since ingesting any food. To me it seems like this compound might depend on something internally for how effective it metabolizes, like stomach pH, or amount of Vitamin C in bloodstream, or whatever.

To those who are knowledgable in plugging: Am I correct in my understanding that plugging will eliminate any discrepancies in metabolizing, thereby ensuring a more accurate dose to dose comparison?
 
Am I correct in my understanding that plugging will eliminate any discrepancies in metabolizing, thereby ensuring a more accurate dose to dose comparison?
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Not really. Different rates of metabolism, different amounts of MAO in your system, etc. etc. should still apply to rectal areas. There may even be more variability, as some viens from the rectum go to portal circulation and some straight to general circulation, which could lead to more variability.
 
someone needs to plug some DOC and tell us how it is!! Seriously though this method seems interesting. It will definitely bypass your liver and I would think you would atleast get a slightly more accurate dose.
 
As already stated before… rectal administration (‘plugging’) of a compound will likely (though not certainly) lead to a more powerful effect… though it is in no way more ‘consistent’ or ‘predictable’ etc. Usually the advantages of rectal administration are decreased nausea and increased peak effect (versus oral). Consistency of effect is not really one of the pluses.

I B
 
Actually, with DOI I found that there was no increase in potency, only a quicker onset of action. I know that sounds strange, but if you think about it the 2C-X compounds have some susceptability to MAO in the gut wall etc, so the rectal route is going to mean it's exposed to a lot less of the gut wall (hence less MAO) therefore you'llexperience an increase in potency (as well as a faster onset) compared with oral dosage. The DOX compounds, on the other hand are a hell of a lot more resistant to MAO due to the alpha-methyl group so it doesn't really matter how much gut wall containing MAO they're exposed to. As such, the rectal route only seemed to increase the speed of onset.

Now I know that DOI isn't DOC, but in terms of their metabolic fate, if not the experience they produce, they're pretty much the same. From that I think you can apply the info about DOI to DOC as well
 
in response to the discussion earlier about using alcohol while tripping, i think it is important to note that alcohol can be used effectively. i don't drink, and i despise alcohol for various reasons, but i do like to have a bottle of wine present for all those deep trips. it can work wonders for the 2C compounds in decreasing body tension, jaw clenching, and general discomfort. it also helps one connect their thoughts together into a more coherent form. it would be very similar to taking a low dose of xanax in the trip if it gets too heavy or if the body load gets too great.

now, this isn't drinking to any great extent, the amount of alcohol that is consumed is very low. definitely not to the point of drunk or even buzzed by any means.
 
I actually agree with 2C-Extraordinary (and really enjoy your name as well!). I have grown to hate alcohol because of how dirty and nasty it is, but there are times when a single drink or two has helped to smooth things over, especially regarding body loads. I have also enjoyed it on the tail end of a DOC trip.

That being said, I still find kratom to be a lot more useful for this than alcohol. But not everyone has kratom handy, whereas most of us have easy access to alcohol.
 
^Alcohol or a nice low dose of diphenhydramine (25mg) works well. With some compounds, alcohol can cause a bit of stomach discomfort so this helps. I know it takes the tension off 2C compounds very well, and imagine it would with DOC. The only problem with DOC is the long come up and you might fall asleep from the diphenhydramine before the trip kicks in.

On a note related to DOC...I find myself able to sleep on this, oddly enough...anyone else? This only happens a good 4 or 5 hours into the peak...I will simply nod in and out if I don't have much sleep under my belt.
 
slippy sleeveen said:
On a note related to DOC...I find myself able to sleep on this, oddly enough...anyone else? This only happens a good 4 or 5 hours into the peak...I will simply nod in and out if I don't have much sleep under my belt.
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Yea man, I know what you mean. It makes me sleepy as well. Gives it a kind of dreamy feel to the entire experience.
 
I don't think I could actually sleep on DOC, but sometimes it feels as though I could near the peak. I think what is actually happening is that I'm falling into a deep trance, and periodically snapping out of it.

On the larger dose I took this was really pronounced. There was a stimulation as the drug took effect, and that mellowed out as the effects built up. Eventually I actually felt somewhat sedated. It took a lot of effort to make myself get up and walk around after I had laid down.

I do remember feeling like I was going to fall asleep, and sometimes I'd close my eyes and go to a really wierd place.. an unknown amount of time would pass (perceived as a very long time).. and then I'd snap out of it and wonder whether or not I'd been asleep.

So much was going on in my mind and body I don't think I could have actually slept, though.
 
^I suppose much of it has to do with when you take your initial dose. I have only tried DOC twice, first time was with 3mg initial dose and then a 1.5mg boost 4 hours in. I found this to be a consistent +2 Shulgin scale with an easy to work with +3. The second time was a full 6mg and I had the same thing happen but the peak happened 3 hours into it...I'm enjoying it, then after about 3 or 4 hours I must have fallen asleep because I woke up 12 hours after ingestion, still tripping a bit (easy +2)....but the point is that I took both of them starting around 9pm which was stupid now that I look back on it. I generally fall to sleep after the peak of most psychedelics though...

It might also have to do with how tolerant you are with amphetamines... my body uses them quickly but also gets rid of them just as quickly and I'm out for the count.
 
gloggawogga said:
It has always perplexed me why people would want to take mind expanding and mind constricting drugs at the same time. Though perhaps my mind is just too constricted to understand. :\
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I often ponder this, too. Not least because I have done it and still sometimes get this desire and have seen others plagued by this contradictory desire. The reasons are hard to pinpoint, really. But I think it's to do with a desire to go beyond, transcend self while at the same time wishing to understand self truly and deeply, unmasked, which is of course quite scary yet strangely fascinating. A simultaneous desire to become and 'unbecome'. Or something like that. To go further, and further, and to have taken the edge off it nonetheless. Seeking out death itself only to reaffirm life. Going to the furthest reaches in order to find your true centre... Totally paradoxical really.
 
I wonder what a BDSM session would be like under the influence of DOC...With the beatings and all...I wonder if it would be estatic or hellish
 
CastorTroy said:
Yea man, I know what you mean. It makes me sleepy as well. Gives it a kind of dreamy feel to the entire experience.
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I'll soon be writing an a report on my experience with DOC from last night, which of course I'm still well under the effects of. I explored a higher dosage this time than ever before and I finally found its depth. Dream-like state... yes, that decribes the extreme state I was in. I've termed it "the divine delerium". I feel as if the entire night, I was both there and somewhere else entirely.

And to stay on point, I've slept for about 2-3 hours on each of my DOC trips thus far. I generally take it late in the evening (like 11pm actually), stay up all night, and get a couple of hours of sleep/meditative rest.
 
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