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The Old and Overgrown DOC thread (fixed)

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2. Distilled water from the store isn't pure. It contains trace minerals and other elements. To make a broad brushed statement saying it will have nothing to react to the compound shows your lake of credibility in dealing with any chemical compound.
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Er, distilled water, is as the name implies, recondensed water vapour. Minerals/trace elements aren't volatile, so don't transfer over in the distillation process. As Fizzacyst pointed out, any impurities in distilled water are measured in parts per billion and are not present in high enough concentrations to react with anything you dissolve in it. A soln of a phenethylamine* in distilled water is not going to decompose into anything in a week unless kept at a high temp and exposed to a shitload of UV light (even then it's going to take a lot more than a week)

* - It's possible that a 2C-T-x/aleph might undergo oxidation of the sulphur atom to produce a sulphone or sulphoxide, but even that's going to be a very slow process unless exposed to very vigourous conditions/reagents.



But then again, what do you care.
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He cares a lot, as a moderator for a harm reduction site. As I mentioned before, some of the 'suggestions' you've made were definitely not in the spirit of harm reduction, so don't go all 'holier than thou' as it doesn't wash. Your previous posts show that you're fairly intelligent, so why the belligerant, windup behaviour (other than a possibly hurt ego).

As I also said, how you are seen/treated by the mods here is your choice - it's not stifling free speech, it's limiting people behaving like arseholes & giving out dangerous info. If you don't behave in that way, we will not be on your case. If you do, we will.

I'd say that's perfectly fair
 
1. fast, i appreaciate your thought out response.

2. mods should be challenged on what they say. if they understand and are really for harm reduction then they should want to better educate the uneducated.

3. the other mods should moderate more like you do.

3. who polices the mods on this board? if no one then the old saying applies "absolute power currupts absolutely".

4. why do you give attention to people that you say behave like "arseholes"? Not ignoring them puts them in the spot light.

back to doc discussion. sorry for the interruption folks.

love that smell........fish & chips for supper
 
f*ck it i got a tanita 1210. screw liquid measurements this bad boy weighs 1000ths of a gram.

but i exposed DOC to light to examine it.. for a short period of time maybe 10-15 min is this enough to break it down ?
 
You cannot wiegh a single dose on that scale. You still need to do the liquid measurement method. You can wiegh out, say, 100mg with the scale. The tanita 1210 has a +/-2mg accuracy. So the actual amount you wiegh out could be between 98 and 102mg.

If you dissolve that in a known amount of liquid, thats a pretty acceptable amount of error. All the doses will be uniform. That way its safe. If you try to wiegh out single doses, like 4mg, or whatever at time then that +/-2mg is a problem. Your 4mg dose could be 2mg or as much as 6mg. Thats not good.

So you still need to put it in liquid, but you can now wiegh out your initial amount safely.

Can you get a 1mL insulin syringe? If you put 100mg into 10mL water, then you could suck it up into the 1mL syringe and each 0.1mL unit would have 1mg in it. You can use more fluid (like 100mL, so 1mL has 1mg), but I would not go less without a more accurate pippetter or something.

That light exposure is harmless.
 
Tolerance to doc builds rapidly.

A research monkey has done the following dosages.
1mg
2mg
3mg
5mg
8mg
13mg
17mg
22mg

All dosages were done within a week of each other but spaced out at least 3 days apart.
 
crazy :)

Seems too many people here are stepping up doses in short period of time. But to its each own, no one knows the long term side effect?
 
if i were to add DOC to water i'd consider using Voss water supposidly it's the purest water on earth. distilled might have plastic leaching into the water
 
fizzacyst this weighs milligrams its a $250 scale my friend let me borrow it last night (totally diff scale then the one i mentioned earlier) you so much as put a few mere specks of DOC on the measuring plate and it willl say 4 mg or so as an example.
 
I know what scale you're talking about. I have one myself. I didn't say it wasn't accurate. I said it was only accurate to +/-2mg. Thats not a milligram scale. That means what whatever wieght the scale tells you could actually wiegh 2mg more or 2mg less than what it says. I dont see how adding 2mg would help.

You really need to wiegh out a larger amount, and put it into liquid. But since its been said many times already by many people and you don't seem to be understanding, I'm going to stop commenting on it. If you overdose yourself and flip out, that will probably convince you. Please take a dose before you go handing this stuff out to people, in case you screw the measurement up.


The distilled water is going tobe the purest you're going to get. All other spring/drinking water either contains minerals naturally, or is fortified with them. If you go into a lab, they aren't going be using Voss water. They're going to use distilled.
 
Weighing out what you may think is just 2mg's On the "Tanita 1210 scale" or any other scale thats accurate to only 0.002mgs can really turn out to be + or - 2mg, 3mg, or 4mg!

If you want accuracy You need to buy a more expensive scale that is accurate to 0.001mg.

(breath can effect accuracy)
If you even breath even so slightly the measurement changes! It will fluctuate between 2mg and 4mg. you have to use that scale in a room with no drafts and it has to be on a very flat surface too.

Thats why us who own that scale, weight out ether 20, 50, or 100mgs of a substance that requires such a small dose to give to your research animal> i.e. 2, 3, 4, 5mg's.

Then use liquid measurement to dose it with!
read theses threads>
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138004
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/dose/dose_info1.shtml
 
voss water

supposidly voss water is "the closest thing to h2o available to the public" how pure is it? supposidly ultra low mineral content - a TDS of 22 and pH of 6.4

heres broken down when measuring water purity :


TDS: Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) consist mainly of carbonates, bicarbonates, chlorides, sulfates, phosphates, nitrates, calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium, iron, manganese, and a few others. They do not include gases, colloids, or sediment.
Bottled water containing not less than 250 parts per million TDS may be labeled as mineral water. If the TDS content of mineral water is below 500 parts per million (ppm), or it is greater than 1,500 ppm, the statement "low mineral content" or "high mineral content" applies, respectively. Seawater. for example, has a TDS of around 34,000. High levels of minerals in water TDS can sometimes produce a metallic flavor, especially if you’re not accustomed to high mineral content waters. TDS is usually measured in ppm (parts per million) or mg/l
ph: the pH scale ranges between 0 and 14. Water with a pH of 7 is neutral and less than 7 is acidic, a pH greater than 7 is alkaline. If the water has a pH of less than 4 the water may have a sour taste. Water with a pH greater than 8.5 has an unpleasant taste.


Based on that information it would seem voss slightly acidic (6 pH) might not be good for this application. How

So if storebought distilled water isnt the way, what is?

Where can you obtain highly pure water with no mineral content?

thanks.
 
(breath can effect accuracy)
If you even breath to heavily you can see the measurement change! It will fluctuate between 2mg and 4mg. you have to use that scale in a room with no drafts and it has to be on a very flat surface too.
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1. would I actually see the reading flucuate with each breath?
a.)have you tried this?
b.)if you breathed hard wouldn't you blow some of the chemical off the scale?

2. why in the world would someone breath heavlily onto the scale?
a.)they have ashma?
b.)they just got done running a marathon?
c.)they are already tripping and love watching the readings of the scale flucuate

3. who determined what each breath weighs?

4. Your condescending sarcasim will not be tolerated -gl

Toltec, if someone wants to go the scale route then they should save their money and get a good scale that corrects or adjusts for this and is more accurate. I believe you can find some used ones on university lab auctions for around $500. If you have to buy a brand new one then plan on spending about $1000 or more.
 
^funny^

I assume you ether don't have a scale or haven't noticed that the slightest breath or air movement, such as a door opening can affect the measurement.
Yeah you can weight air presure.

4. It may be impossible to have a room free of drafts if you ate too many carbohydrates. In other words, if I turned sideways and farted that might add 6mgs to the reading.
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Anyhow, im out of here! smart ass
 
I don't want to get into a big discussion of water contents in the DOC thread.

But to break it down:
distilled water = pure H2O. nothing else.
drinking water (voss, perrier, whatever) = H2O, plus lots of minerals, maybe fluoride, maybe flavoring agents, etc.

Distilled water is the purest you are going to get. Its not a debate or anything, thats just the way it is. Its water and only water. There may be statistically insignificant impurities in it, but even if there were its on such a small scale that it is not goign to have any effect whatsoever. Honestly, I'd be more worried about contaminants in the air contacting the substance or dissolving in the water as you mess with it... and thats not even a concern, unless you are subjecting yourself to some wierd environmental conditions (like leaving lots of fuming acid around or something).

Storebought distilled water is usually in HDPE plastic. Its meant for storing stuff like this. Its safe. Seriously, the oxygen is the air is probably a greater concern than the single molecule or two of non-water stuff floating around in there.
 
Toltec, if someone wants to go the scale route then they should save their money and get a good scale that corrects or adjusts for this and is more accurate. I believe you can find some used ones on university lab auctions for around $500. If you have to buy a brand new one then plan on spending about $1000 or more.
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A 0.002 gram accuracy scale doesn't need air draft protection as long as you don't breathe directly on it, like Toltec said, and as long as you use it in a room without any strong drafts. Numerous people have verified the accuracy of the scale he is using with calibration weights. The more expensive scales need draft protection because they achieve a higher accuracy, i.e. less than 0.001 gram.

who determined what each breath weighs?
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http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/presar.html

You integrate the air pressure normal to the weighing surface over the weighing surface, that gives you the force.

Now lets talk about DOC.
 
and pH of 6.4
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Anything with a pH of 6.4 is far from pure. Pure water should have a pH of 7.00


3. who determined what each breath weighs?
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Weight is actually the meausurement of a force (acc due to gravity), acting on a mass so any breath will create a force on the scale pan that will register as a weight.

To be anally retentive about weighing things, it should be expressed in newtons (Nm) not grams/kilograms/milligrams (they're a measurement of mass, which remains constant regardless of the amount of gravity acting upon it as long as it's stationary).

Here endeth the physics lesson!
 
DOC blotters?

My apologies if this has already been asked, guys.

Got this on Pharmaecopia:
ok got the straight dope on another forum, say got some DOC u wanna lay on blotter, here u go
Use 2-1/2 ml Everclear, vodka or 101 etc... < (that will dissolve doc into solution well)\ put it into a shot glass; mix 200mg into the glass too. Mix till it is completely gone.

Use a syringe that shows/reads 1ml increments to Squirt the solution, squirt the solution very "SLOWLY" onto a 2-1/2 inch by 2-1/2 inch pre cut blotter paper (#14 watercolor paper is best) laying flat on a glass pie plate. That should get you 2mg per 1/4 square.

When you slowly squirt the solution onto the paper, slowly spread it around too, It absorbs! Don't use a fan to dry it. Let it dry on its own. The blotter paper will pretty much evenly absorb the DOC on its own. If you use to much liquid; say 4ml it will spill off of the sheet.

That should work; I would practice first to see how it works! If I was to ever try that that’s how id do it. #14 gauge watercolor papers is sold at any art supply store. #14 watercolor papers are what are used to lay LSD with.

In fact that’s how it’s done except that they use a ten pack of blotters and dunk that into solution to absorb the LSD. What ever is left over under the sheets is scraped up and placed into liquid vials for personal use; and hopefully that is all it is gonna be used for! Please don’t pass this off as LSD!!!!!!!!!!!

If it is done right for doc there, won’t be any spillover, by the way
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Would this method work for producing DOC blotters? Could I use distilled water instead of Ethanol? Could I substitute a medicine dropper for the syringe?

How long will DOC blotters last, if kept in a cool dark place (aka Closet)?

Would it be more precise if I make the blotters one by one? I want to make the dose as consistent as possible (2mg per 1/4 paper). I'm not producing these for large scale sales, only for myself and close friends so time consumed isn't much of a problem.

Thanks, Magic_Hobo.
 
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