The Old and Overgrown 2C-E Thread

[nuke]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of so called body load is psychological, though I always seem to get jaw clenching and am never bothered by it (it feels good and natural to me!)

 

[gloggawogga]

I alluded to psychology mainly for a few reasons.

First, I get jaw and facial tension, digestive problems, unecessary increases in heart rate and blood pressure, all while sober, just while under a lot of stress. I am in 40's BTW. By the time you are in your 40's, you will recognize the relationship between your emotions and your physiology. When I was in my 20's, I didn't recognize the depth of that relationship. Whenever you see an older person who in a few years goes from colored hair to grey hair, its almost always because of a stressful event in their life. Mind and body are intimately connected. Managing stress is extremely important to one's health as one gets older.

Second, I've found I can mitigate body load on psychedelics like 2c-e by practising simple relaxation and other stress management approaches, such as a breathing technique or sometimes just looking at a problem in a new way that makes it look less threatening. So managing stress has become important to managing body load on my trips. I've had numerous blood pressure and heart rate measurements on various psychedelics and they've been all over the place, from below normal to very high, and it all seems related to my mental state. Its as if all you need to measure glog's mental state is a blood pressure cuff.

However, neurochemistry and drug pharmocology play roles in this too. While stress may be damaging to my health while sober, it seems even more so while on a drug like 2c-e. So whatever the mechanisms for stress affecting the body are, some drugs can potentiate these effects. And perhaps, they could be potentiated to physically dangerous levels. You know stress can kill an 80 year old. So just maybe with a high enough dose of 2c-e, or 2c-t-7 or DOB or whatever, stress can kill a 20 year old too.

 

[nuke]

Well, I would say, the physical side effects of many psychedelics can be very real, but you do have an option as to how to cope with them, as with any physical imbalance. The pain is usually just the body pointing out that there's an imbalance, and you can choose how to deal with that if your connection to yourself is strong enough. The mind and the body are on many levels the same thing.

 

[Xarann]

I alluded to psychology mainly for a few reasons.

First, I get jaw and facial tension, digestive problems, unecessary increases in heart rate and blood pressure, all while sober, just while under a lot of stress. I am in 40's BTW. By the time you are in your 40's, you will recognize the relationship between your emotions and your physiology. When I was in my 20's, I didn't recognize the depth of that relationship. Whenever you see an older person who in a few years goes from colored hair to grey hair, its almost always because of a stressful event in their life. Mind and body are intimately connected. Managing stress is extremely important to one's health as one gets older.

Second, I've found I can mitigate body load on psychedelics like 2c-e by practising simple relaxation and other stress management approaches, such as a breathing technique or sometimes just looking at a problem in a new way that makes it look less threatening. So managing stress has become important to managing body load on my trips. I've had numerous blood pressure and heart rate measurements on various psychedelics and they've been all over the place, from below normal to very high, and it all seems related to my mental state. Its as if all you need to measure glog's mental state is a blood pressure cuff.

However, neurochemistry and drug pharmocology play roles in this too. While stress may be damaging to my health while sober, it seems even more so while on a drug like 2c-e. So whatever the mechanisms for stress affecting the body are, some drugs can potentiate these effects. And perhaps, they could be potentiated to physically dangerous levels. You know stress can kill an 80 year old. So just maybe with a high enough dose of 2c-e, or 2c-t-7 or DOB or whatever, stress can kill a 20 year old too.

Well sure. I totally agree that psychological factors play a VERY important role, even in this situation, but Honestly, I don't really like the way this is going, and don't care to debate further in that regard.

What i would like to is to stick to finding what the physical factors are wich may (or may not) contribute directly to the main "side-effects" of 2c-'s (nausea/diarrhea"body load" and high energy/elevated pressure/pulse/jaw clenching) wich i think can't be deemed irrelevent, simply by the consistency of reports.

Basicly what i think i'm getting to is, i think it's illogical these effects are purely psychological, since they are so often reported by this specific kind of drug, while more seldom reported with tryptamines or most other psychedelics.

Basicly to reiterate them, my two hypothesis are :
1. stomach problems, especially vomiting, already seems to be a universally known effect of mescaline, wich has been in use for 1000s of years, and from what i understand is often "part of the ritual".

2. high energy / jaw-clenching / elevated blood pulse+pressure are also very well known effects of "speed" (amphetamine) and sometimes is also associated, to a very much milder effect, with mescaline, and also with MDMA.

Both of those are alot more known and researched members of the phenethylamine group of chemicals.
Now i know this is extrapolation at best whitout doing actual scientific testing, but i think i can assume if someone was to provide scientific research concercning the nature of said effects in the other phenethylamines, we would have some idea what cause them in research phenethylamines such as 2c-'s.

 

[Beenhead]

isnt the jaw clenching. yawning, and a few others connected to the activation of some of the cranial nerves?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

But why do some phenethylamines cause more of this "body-load" than do others? 2C-B, 2C-C, and 2C-D are very easy on the body...indeed with these two I often don't feel like I am on any drug at all. But 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-T-2, and 2C-T-7 all have a bit of a "load" with them. And I don't find it is tied to 'depth' or that issues brought into light with a psychedelic contribute to this...indeed 2C-D is a very deep material for me...but there is no penality. ON the other hand, 2C-T-2 was never particularly deep...but it causes a significant body-load.

Well sure. I totally agree that psychological factors play a VERY important role, even in this situation, but Honestly, I don't really like the way this is going, and don't care to debate further in that regard.

What i would like to is to stick to finding what the physical factors are wich may (or may not) contribute directly to the main "side-effects" of 2c-'s (nausea/diarrhea"body load" and high energy/elevated pressure/pulse/jaw clenching) wich i think can't be deemed irrelevent, simply by the consistency of reports.

Basicly what i think i'm getting to is, i think it's illogical these effects are purely psychological, since they are so often reported by this specific kind of drug, while more seldom reported with tryptamines or most other psychedelics.

Basicly to reiterate them, my two hypothesis are :
1. stomach problems, especially vomiting, already seems to be a universally known effect of mescaline, wich has been in use for 1000s of years, and from what i understand is often "part of the ritual".

2. high energy / jaw-clenching / elevated blood pulse+pressure are also very well known effects of "speed" (amphetamine) and sometimes is also associated, to a very much milder effect, with mescaline, and also with MDMA.

Both of those are alot more known and researched members of the phenethylamine group of chemicals.
Now i know this is extrapolation at best whitout doing actual scientific testing, but i think i can assume if someone was to provide scientific research concercning the nature of said effects in the other phenethylamines, we would have some idea what cause them in research phenethylamines such as 2c-'s.

 

[gloggawogga]

But why do some phenethylamines cause more of this "body-load" than do others?

The last paragraph of my post adressed that question. Whatever the various mechanisms for connection between mind and body are, different drugs stimulate those various mechanisms to various degrees. But I don't think you can cleanly separate the psychological from the physical. While I can say that some 2c's are more likely to make my jaw clench or evelate my BP, I do any one of them and sit and meditate, relax, etc. my BP will normal to low and I won't clench my jaw. Now on speed or MDMA, its harder to do. The physiological effect of either of these drugs seems to overpower my psychological influeneces.

But as for the actual mechanisms or 2c's, what receptors are involved, etc. we really don't have enough data at this time.

 

[nuke]

But why do some phenethylamines cause more of this "body-load" than do others? 2C-B, 2C-C, and 2C-D are very easy on the body...indeed with these two I often don't feel like I am on any drug at all. But 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-T-2, and 2C-T-7 all have a bit of a "load" with them. And I don't find it is tied to 'depth' or that issues brought into light with a psychedelic contribute to this...indeed 2C-D is a very deep material for me...but there is no penality. ON the other hand, 2C-T-2 was never particularly deep...but it causes a significant body-load.

I have a feeling that the sulfur is responsible for the body load in the thiolated compounds, as it's a lot less native to the body than oxygen or carbon. I've gotten the same body load I have on 2c-c as 2c-i, sometimes they manifest toxic effects and sometimes not. The first time I used 2c-i I consumed 20 milligrams about an hour after eating the world's worst mushroom pizza and experienced absolutely zero body load. I haven't tried 2c-e (yet), but when I do I'll let you all know.

 

[Xarann]

What seems very likely on the body load side is activity at the 5-ht3 serotonin receptor.
Like i said earlier, it's a serotonin receptor radically different from all others, and different affinity to it amongst 2c-'s might cause more or less body load.
check the wikipedia link i posted earlier for more info

One thing i have noticed tho, is while body load is pretty much present in many 2c-'s trip reports all along the range, people that tryed several seem to be affected different. some people say 2c-e is the worst body load, while others report nothing but bad body load from 2c-t-2, or even 2c-b.
I'm saying this from reading all 25 pages of this thread and trip reports on erowid.
Hard to speculate on this tho. One would assume someone sensible to body load problems c-'

 

[nuke]

I kind of doubt it has a ton to do with 5HT3, as 2c-b-fly is a very good 5HT3 agonist and it usually has a very clean body load for most people. The only thing it ever caused in me was some nausea on the come up.

 

[butane]

In trying 2C-T-2, 2C-I, and 2C-E, I've found 2C-E to have by far the least body load. 2C-I has the most, and 2C-T-2 also has a fair amount. 2C-T-2's body load is unique, and I don't mind it as much as 2C-I's, which just pisses me off and distracts me from the trip all the time.

 

[Delsyd]

^thats interesting i found almost the exact opposite to be true.

2c-i had the least body load. the only thing that got to me a bit was that annoying energy and a slight headache on the comedown.

2ct2 caused vomiting when i took it but after puking i didnt feel any more body load and in fact enjoyed the body high alot.

2c-e caused nausea and vomiting on a couple occasions. It is also pretty stimulating though not as much as 2c-i. 2c-e is the most rewarding though therefore it is worth taking even though is comes with a few side effects.

 

[steel2111]

I am on 2C-E right now, and it is fucking BEAUTIFUL!!

I'm sorry I can't go into much more detail than that, please forgive me

Oh but, 2C-E certainly has the lighest body load out of all 2C chemicals I have ingested (that being, 2C-I, and 2C-T-2).

2C-I gives me a very strong physical stimulation where I feel troubled no matter how much I move, 2C-T-2 I found to be. if anything a minor enhancement to sobriety, and have a gram of it which I never use, don't care for it much.

2C-E though, has such a beautiful almost MDMA like feeling too it, accompanied by some pretty cool visuals which would be great in say a rave enviroment.

On a side note -- anyone have any experience or warnings as to why one should disregard smoking this chemical (2C-E)?

 

[MASTER SATAN]

i dont think it will work smoking it. i dont think any 2c-x can be smoked but i may be wrong. yeah 2c-e is my fav right now. im winding down from 50mg trip right now!

 

[mongo_the_bad]

I know that 2c-i can be freebased. The affects are pretty much exactly the same accept they come on in a matter of minutes. Don't know about 2c-e, try searching around for some trip reports, I have never seen one where it was smoked.

 

[Trogdor]

This is quoted from another forums. I can't vouch for the accuracy of this claim but it sounds knowledgable.

noeticbuzz DF:

Don't vaporize or smoke this shit! It is horrible for you and fucking stupid!

2CI, 2CB and 2CC are halogenated phenolic ethers with an ethylamine sidechain. If you vaporize it with heat, a part of it will decompose. You will likely get polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, their halogenated, nitrated and partly oxydated variants. You can get pyrrole rings and dioxin-type substances. It may turn highly toxic on your thyroid or give you chloracne like that poor Eastern European president got.

But that is not so likely. What IS likely is that these decomposition products will give you cancer in say 10-30 years. Lung cancer. Thyroid cancer.

Right now you might be feeling a nice 2CI high but it is entirely possible that the pyrolysis forms substances that make one toke as bad for you as ten thousand cigarettes. You likely won't notice as cancer is a delayed poisoning of the most insidious kind. It's like benzopyrene: a few miligrams will give you cancer, but until that time you can sprinkle it on your morning egg like salt.

nagognog2 DF

As an organic chemist with an extensive background in toxicology and neuropharmacology, I agree with noeticbuzz on this matter. I cannot for the life of me understand why someone would take a crystalline powder whose name they could barely pronounce and, as their near first instinct, apply fire to it and inhale whatever volatizes! You have GOT to be out of your mind to do such!

Some relatively harmless chemicals will, when they are broken down with a catalyst such as heat, emit extremely poisonous compounds. If you do not know your chemistry inside out and upside down and you do this, I only hope you have a good insurance policy for both medical and life.

2,5-dimethoxy-4-iodo-phenethylamine .HCl ho!

Oh yeah, I looked at the rules and it doesn't say that I can't link to another forums, so here's a report of smoked 2ce on pharmaecopia:
http://www.pharmaecopia.pharm-text.com/showthread.php?t=2326

 

[Hellbilly]

This is quoted from another forums. I can't vouch for the accuracy of this claim but it sounds knowledgable.

Oh yeah, I looked at the rules and it doesn't say that I can't link to another forums, so here's a report of smoked 2ce on pharmaecopia:
http://www.pharmaecopia.pharm-text.com/showthread.php?t=2326

With only enough BASIC chemistry to make this statement, and not enough to work out the math on it, wouldn't it just equate or amount to an oxidization of said compounds, where heat is a catalyst?

Given that, couldn't someone with enough knowledge to do the math on it, be able to tell us exactly what is or is not released from it?

 

[nuke]

Almost sounds like my case. I have had more LSD experience that all other psychedelic experiences put together. I've only had three 2C-E experience...but all three (especially the last two) were more profound that all but one of my LSD experiences.

2C-E and 2C-T-7 are my two favorite synthetics of all. I would always choose these two over LSD. I can take LSD anytime I want..but have not had any since 2004 and no real desire to experiment again. I've not had any 2C-E since my last trip with it in 2003...but I sure look foward to trying it again one fine day. I look foward to trying a lower dose (10mg-12mg.) All three of my 2C-E experiences were over-the-top intense. 16mg of 2C-E was similar to around/approx 250ug LSD. 18mg was like a 500ug trip. 20mg blew LSD off the scale.

I bet even at a +2-level...2C-E is amazing. I want to find the dose similar for me as 70ug LSD. That is the level I find most useful when it comes to LSD.

Do you find about the +2 level in general to be the most useful level of psychedelics? +3s have been interesting, but are usually too jumbled up and nonsensical for me to take anything useful from.

I look forward to 2c-e someday, but as of right now I feel rather apprehensive about using drugs for the most part.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Do you find about the +2 level in general to be the most useful level of psychedelics? +3s have been interesting, but are usually too jumbled up and nonsensical for me to take anything useful from.

Depends on the substance. For some yes, others no. 2C-T-7 is so exquisit at 30-50mg. But at 10mg, there isn't much there. LSD is mindlowing at any dose. 2C-I and 2C-D on the other hand work best for me at a +2 level. So just depends on the drug.

I have found that using 2ce (as well as any psychedelic) loses it magic or possiblity for a full blown experence when used more than 2-4 per month.
I have binged on 2ce (probably about 50 trips), and like many chemicals it loses its magic when used more often. Same with DOC.
anyways...

I trip once or twice a year, and that is plenty for me. Last one with 2C-B...Usually I find that one mediocure at best. But last time, it was wonderful. With ketamine there is a 'loss of magic' but not with the psychedelics.

 

[rc_man]

personally I really like 2ce, I have done it quite a few times,prob more than I should have, but every time it ahas always been a very pleasant expierience.